NefMoto

Technical => Tuning => Topic started by: k0mpresd on March 18, 2018, 10:00:44 AM



Title: 09g gearbox reflash
Post by: k0mpresd on March 18, 2018, 10:00:44 AM
 :)

https://youtu.be/FMh2adOHA0c


Title: Re: 09g gearbox reflash
Post by: mister t on March 18, 2018, 07:47:33 PM
Cool man  ;D

Question though, is there any danger of blowing the fluid pump?

I know that was the reason for the 6800 RPM limit for the 6 speed ZF 6HP transmissions.


Title: Re: 09g gearbox reflash
Post by: IamwhoIam on March 20, 2018, 07:39:34 AM
Cool man  ;D

Question though, is there any danger of blowing the fluid pump?

I know that was the reason for the 6800 RPM limit for the 6 speed ZF 6HP transmissions.

Lolwut? what 6800 limit?


Title: Re: 09g gearbox reflash
Post by: mister t on March 21, 2018, 02:21:02 AM
Lolwut? what 6800 limit?

That's what ZF's own literature claims is the RPM limit for the front fluid pump on the 6HP-19 series. While the pump may be able to spin higher, from what I know, it's in danger of failing above 6800 RPM input speed.

Further, I know from experience on my Cabrio with that transmisson, the TCU will override any ECU request for a higher RPM limit. I have a million and one logs, where the Rev limiter kicks in at 6800 RPM.

In fact, the trans will normally shift up at 6500 RPM. 6800 can only be achieved in 'sport' mode under kickdown. Redline in tip mode (even w the shifter in 's' will be 6500).

If you know of a way to increase the rev limit on a 1st gen 6HP-19 equipped vehicle without having to reflash the TCU (which needs to be done on the bench) please let me know.



Title: Re: 09g gearbox reflash
Post by: Praga on March 21, 2018, 03:50:13 AM
:)

https://youtu.be/FMh2adOHA0c

Well done


Title: Re: 09g gearbox reflash
Post by: IamwhoIam on March 21, 2018, 04:07:52 AM
That's what ZF's own literature claims is the RPM limit for the front fluid pump on the 6HP-19 series. While the pump may be able to spin higher, from what I know, it's in danger of failing above 6800 RPM input speed.

Further, I know from experience on my Cabrio with that transmisson, the TCU will override any ECU request for a higher RPM limit. I have a million and one logs, where the Rev limiter kicks in at 6800 RPM.

In fact, the trans will normally shift up at 6500 RPM. 6800 can only be achieved in 'sport' mode under kickdown. Redline in tip mode (even w the shifter in 's' will be 6500).

If you know of a way to increase the rev limit on a 1st gen 6HP-19 equipped vehicle without having to reflash the TCU (which needs to be done on the bench) please let me know.



The TCU NEEDS to be reflashed, there's plenty of V10 RS6s and C6 A6 3.0T I've done on ZF 6HP that run 7200-7400 RPM and they don't have any pump problems.


Title: Re: 09g gearbox reflash
Post by: mister t on March 21, 2018, 09:56:39 PM
The TCU NEEDS to be reflashed, there's plenty of V10 RS6s and C6 A6 3.0T I've done on ZF 6HP that run 7200-7400 RPM and they don't have any pump problems.

None of those cars use a first gen 6HP-XX much less a 6HP-19.

It's entirely possible that ZF strengthened the pump assembly on the 2nd gen 6HP's, especially on the higher torque rated models.

Like I said, it's what ZF said. Whether or not they were being overcautious I don't know. However, I can see why they would be conservative in their max pump speed ratings on a 1st gen transmission. Given the cost of replacement, it would be a financial and PR nightmare if those transmissions started blowing up at stock RPM\s .


Title: Re: 09g gearbox reflash
Post by: k0mpresd on March 21, 2018, 11:01:41 PM
to be fair, i have read documentation specifically about the -19 gearbox and it does not back up your statements.

there was no universal max limiter. the stated max limiter was a combination of torque input and the engaged gear.


Title: Re: 09g gearbox reflash
Post by: IamwhoIam on March 22, 2018, 12:09:40 PM
None of those cars use a first gen 6HP-XX much less a 6HP-19.
blah-blah

ok shoot an example of one of those boxes, as well as a proper software part number please. If you mean B6 S4, then I'll agree it's a different type of 6HP than later ones.


Title: Re: 09g gearbox reflash
Post by: prj on March 22, 2018, 04:04:40 PM
None of those cars use a first gen 6HP-XX much less a 6HP-19.

And here is the point where you are wrong. C6 3.0 TFSI -> 6HP19.

Also, even early 2003 6HP19 on VAG is OBD flashable BTDT. No issues on those above 6800 rpm either.


Title: Re: 09g gearbox reflash
Post by: mister t on March 22, 2018, 10:54:19 PM
And here is the point where you are wrong. C6 3.0 TFSI -> 6HP19.

Also, even early 2003 6HP19 on VAG is OBD flashable BTDT. No issues on those above 6800 rpm either.

Well I'll be very happy to be proven incorrect with respect to being able to flash a 1st gen (non-canbus) 6HP-19 via OBD.

You're literally the only person who's told me that it's possible.

You wouldn't happen to have a binary read for one kicking around that you could post up?

I'd like to see if I could make a few tweaks to my 6HP on my early 2005 cabrio.


Title: Re: 09g gearbox reflash
Post by: prj on March 23, 2018, 01:07:48 AM
You can read the whole cal over K-Line. And you can write only cal section.
Not to mention SGO-s being available for things like 2003 phaetons, which are K-line.

Easiest way to flash is if you have sgo and know checksum algorithm is to decode sgo, make modifications, sum, repack sgo and flash using factory tool.

So make your own tool or make your own sgo packer/unpacker. The xor key is MILKYWAY.


Title: Re: 09g gearbox reflash
Post by: k0mpresd on March 23, 2018, 09:05:10 AM
You can read the whole cal over K-Line. And you can write only cal section.
Not to mention SGO-s being available for things like 2003 phaetons, which are K-line.

Easiest way to flash is if you have sgo and know checksum algorithm is to decode sgo, make modifications, sum, repack sgo and flash using factory tool.

So make your own tool or make your own sgo packer/unpacker. The xor key is MILKYWAY.

this is exactly how i flashed the 09g. unpack > bin > modify/chksum > repackage sgo > reflash.


Title: Re: 09g gearbox reflash
Post by: fastboatster on May 11, 2019, 12:02:14 AM
:)

https://youtu.be/FMh2adOHA0c
very nice. i'd like to do it to 09 2.5 jetta's 09g just for shits and giggles


Title: Re: 09g gearbox reflash
Post by: fastboatster on August 27, 2020, 06:27:13 PM
What kind of microcontroller does 09g use? Was trying to decompile the firmware I extracted from the sgo and could not figure out CPU architecture.