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Author Topic: ME7.5 differences from ME7.1  (Read 61940 times)
rayce
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« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2011, 12:20:27 PM »

Rayce,

I only wish I could help solve your issues, but I can't. However, I noticed an error on your Excel screen dump.

Bhp is approximately MAF / 0.8

not MAF x 0.8. So your 185 g/sec equates to about 231 bhp which is not much more than stock. Most TT 225 PS pro tunes aim for 210 to 215 g/sec peak.

I'm surprised the fuel trim adaptation is sufficient to deal with 15% overfuel across the board from the 4 bar FPR with no apparent ill-effects. It will show on your gas mileage though, so it's worth scaling KRKTE down if not just to avoid unanticipated complications down the line.


I know you're just starting with this and I haven't tuned a car myself but I respect your efforts. I would like to be in a position to compare my pro tune with stock when Tony adapts his flashing software for Windows XP. If I can flash it off the ECU and it's not encrypted, I'll compare, analyse and report the findings so we can all learn from it. Our engines are essentially the same so the calibration should be comparable to what you could achieve.

Regards.

Doug

Here's a good sanity check for the status of your MAF. Do a full-throttle run all the way to
redline in a single gear (second works fine). Group 002 shows air mass in g/s. Your peak
airflow should be roughly 0.80 times your horsepower. So, if you have a stock 150hp 1.8T,
expect around 120g/s. If you have a 225hp 1.8T remapped to 265hp, expect around 200g/s.
If you see significantly less than that, you MAF may be on the way out. This also works if you
are chipped, but "race" programs may make more power through timing, rather than airflow.
Therefore, take all readings with a grain of salt. Also remember that the MAF can be
knackered even if all values look reasonable!

Quote from TTweakers Guide....
Further if this is only five horsepower lol, I can't wait until I make 35 more... I have an easy ten MPH faster in the quarter mile.
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rayce
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« Reply #16 on: August 30, 2011, 08:44:00 PM »

Okay, I found a lot of related maps. Using English to germen translated keywords like "charge pressure = Ladedruck" and a searching the damos. It will take a bit but I will update the maps I find and keep this thread updated.

Load related to speed, max map voltage and so on.

I suspected speed over time and pedal position would be the best way to determine load and a substitute for vehicle speed could be air flow increase over time.

Anyway, finding/crossing these maps takes a bit but I'm on it....
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nyet
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« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2011, 09:51:01 PM »

Wait, so you haven't checked the s4wiki tuning guide yet?
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TTQS
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« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2011, 02:53:48 AM »

rayce.

I understand the material you've quoted from the TTweakers' Guide, thanks. I was trying to be diplomatic while pointing out your approach. I'm concerned from what you're reporting that you're trying to tune without fully appreciating the structure of ME7.x.

Changing the injectors and/or FPR without recalibrating KRKTE is generally regarded as a fundamental issue and there has been plenty of discussion on Nefmoto about the topic recently. You incorrectly reported that bhp = MAF x 0.8 in your screen dump of your VCDS log when you do know which way round it's supposed to be.

You've looked at a 225 PS definition file I've posted and commented, so it's fairly clear we all know where all the maps and constants are to within a few lines of hex code already. Surely you have enough info to tune your TT successfully if you've been tuning for 20 years.

I'm not trying to trash your efforts, just cautioning that you need to take care. Pro tuners I've talked to have been asked to correct a lot of dodgy 'pro' tunes, never mind amateur attempts.

Doug
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rayce
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« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2011, 11:14:32 AM »

Wait, so you haven't checked the s4wiki tuning guide yet?
Yes that is why DSLOFS is zeroed. TTweakers guide does not show this. I have more time than you would believe in the research regarding the 7.5 including IDA pro disassembly following a tutorial everyone knows about and I don’t consider myself to be an expert but I am actually getting excellent results so far.
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rayce
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« Reply #20 on: August 31, 2011, 11:17:53 AM »

rayce.

I understand the material you've quoted from the TTweakers' Guide, thanks. I was trying to be diplomatic while pointing out your approach. I'm concerned from what you're reporting that you're trying to tune without fully appreciating the structure of ME7.x.

Changing the injectors and/or FPR without recalibrating KRKTE is generally regarded as a fundamental issue and there has been plenty of discussion on Nefmoto about the topic recently. You incorrectly reported that bhp = MAF x 0.8 in your screen dump of your VCDS log when you do know which way round it's supposed to be.

You've looked at a 225 PS definition file I've posted and commented, so it's fairly clear we all know where all the maps and constants are to within a few lines of hex code already. Surely you have enough info to tune your TT successfully if you've been tuning for 20 years.

I'm not trying to trash your efforts, just cautioning that you need to take care. Pro tuners I've talked to have been asked to correct a lot of dodgy 'pro' tunes, never mind amateur attempts.

Doug

Change Injectors? My injectors are OEM...

The 7.5 is not the same as the 7.1 and after following the s4wiki guide only to find my ME7.5 does not have KFDLULS, I began to try various setups to figure it out on my own.  Apparently I have a regulated BOV that just brings the boost down evenly when calculated load goes down. I am not convinced the way the 7.1 calculates load is the same as the 7.5 but that is what I am working on.

Also 2550mbar is not just five horsepower. Stop it with fueling and attacking me. I will get to fueling after I figure out boost. My car will be fine until I do. My car can trim to 25% either way so I am fine for now.

 I really don’t care what opinions you may have regarding what I know or don’t know and for what it is worth, I have given more to this site regarding the 7.5 than I have found.

TTQS yes I used your damos file and it is not for my car so I had to find every map and if you are suggesting that what I have done was easy you are wrong. The experts you speak of did not go to class to learn how to hack an Automotive CPU and I’m sure they spent plenty of time testing to get to the level you consider to be an expert. I don’t mind doing the testing also and again I am not an expert but I have actually achieved results with my work. I am also providing my hard work for anyone to show my thanks to everyone who did the same with making information available for me. This work is the beginning of something and you can choose to be or not be a part of it but stop attacking me and sending my posts off topic. I’m sure there are a lot of people who want to learn and develop more performance with the 7.5 and it is funny that you have actually never tuned and I bet even built a high performance engine but you are the first to tell me that what I am doing is wrong.  It would be more productive if you would help me find the maps or talk about anything related to how the 7.5 calculates what it considers to be load.
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« Reply #21 on: August 31, 2011, 12:13:38 PM »

Actual load, or requested load?
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Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience.
rayce
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« Reply #22 on: August 31, 2011, 03:02:03 PM »

Actual
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« Reply #23 on: August 31, 2011, 05:39:17 PM »

MAF/rpm * constant..


http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Load
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Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience.
rayce
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« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2011, 05:29:48 AM »

MAF/rpm * constant..


http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Load

Thanks nyet.

I take it the MAF and RPM curves are used with more than just load calculation so the constant must be the key. I found a "translated" discharge curve that had 501 points KLAF. I suspect it to be related to the BOV.

I suppose the calculation is the best way to do this without disrupting other functionality of the system.

Is this a single constant or group of constants as a member of a function generator?

I will plot it out as a single constant on my graphing calculator to compare to vag com. The problem with logging with vag com is it has a millisecond delay between writes. You can see it when you lift throttle. I may have to video a test live to get higher fps and more accuracy. I have a virtual machine that will record my desktop session but I am not sure if it is fast enough.

Thanks again...
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Rick
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« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2011, 05:42:15 AM »

You need to be logging more than you are.

You need to be logging throttle position against pedal position.  The DV is only used to dump boost in case of emergency.  Have you edited the mapfor maximum airflow through the MAF?  Also don't forget that load will drop with high rpm - it is related to airflow, not boost.  As the engine VE drops, so will load.  Requesting too much boost at high rpm will also mean requested load will not meet actual.

Rick
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« Reply #26 on: September 01, 2011, 11:01:16 AM »

I agree. IMO you are barking up the wrong tree and not logging the appropriate data.

I suspect you are getting throttle cut.

Log throttle plate angle, boost, and wgdc.

Does setzi's logger work with 7.5?
« Last Edit: September 01, 2011, 12:06:54 PM by nyet » Logged

ME7.1 tuning guide (READ FIRST)
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum checker/corrrector for ME7.x

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience.
nyet
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« Reply #27 on: September 01, 2011, 11:03:01 AM »

Also don't forget that load will drop with high rpm - it is related to airflow, not boost.  As the engine VE drops, so will load.

Yes. Bottom line: RPM goes up faster than MAF, so load will drop after peak torque.

Quote
Requesting too much boost at high rpm will also mean requested load will not meet actual.

I don't think i've ever seen any tuned ME7.1 file where req load meets actual at WOT.
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ME7.1 tuning guide (READ FIRST)
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum checker/corrrector for ME7.x

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience.
RaraK
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« Reply #28 on: September 01, 2011, 11:57:50 AM »

"he 7.5 is not the same as the 7.1 and after following the s4wiki guide only to find my ME7.5 does not have KFDLULS, I began to try various setups to figure it out on my own."

Some do some dont, find KLDLUL
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rayce
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« Reply #29 on: September 02, 2011, 06:24:30 AM »

Here are the logs and two versions of tune. Logs 1 and 2 are a mild feel and logs 3 and 4 are aggressive feel. Logs 1 and 3 are just pressing the pedal to the floor without the engine running. I do not have a lbl file for my car and it took a bit to find logs that gave me the data I needed. The 117 and 119 seem to be what they are supposed to be but 206 is the one I am not sure about but seems to be Mass flow corrected and actual.

I am going to edit the lbl file manually today.
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04 TT 225BEA Quattro
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