NOTORIOUS VR
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« Reply #75 on: February 07, 2013, 10:14:07 AM »
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Yes, seriously. Checksums were originally used to check the integrity of the ecu data but were continually developed into a way of protecting the data from unothlrozed modification. Bosch has continued with this protection idea and developed further technology that I would consider "anti-tuning" technogy. http://www.sharkperformance.co.uk/news/article.asp?id=129lol... I read that page as it was posted on AZ (which is probably where you got it from). The real problem here is this. You seem to believe one persons view on this (the person who wrote that article). Unfortunately many will agree that it is simply not true. And now you're here after reading some random website arguing that checksums = tuner protection. |
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AARDQ
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« Reply #76 on: February 07, 2013, 10:14:28 AM »
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I don't think you can relate modifying an engine and selling it to modifying an ecu and selling it.
Why not? If there's a flaw in the logic, point it out, don't just say it doesn't fit. The distinction you seem to be having trouble with is that no one is reverse engineering anything with an intent to clone it and claim it as his own. They are modifying what is already there, and generally it is going back into the same car it came out of. If someone were to completely reverse engineer the device and produce it for use in a different line of motor vehicle (or even clone the patented aspects of the software), that is a different animal. |
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NOTORIOUS VR
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« Reply #77 on: February 07, 2013, 10:16:28 AM »
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Why not? If there's a flaw in the logic, point it out, don't just say it doesn't fit. He can't point it out because he like many others just twist it all around to suit their argument instead of stepping back and seeing the whole picture. |
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AARDQ
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« Reply #78 on: February 07, 2013, 10:18:18 AM »
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Oh fer...
Now doesn't that read like a "aren't we a bright bunch of people, you should give us your money" article? Never seen that before.
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boomerro
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« Reply #79 on: February 07, 2013, 10:18:27 AM »
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No. It is not. All of science is based on reverse engineering. What is ethically bankrupt is when lobbiests cram things like the DMCA down our throats, criminalizing something that should be a civil matter.
The entire 'IP' regime (in the US anyway) is corrupt and broken, and has been for a century now.
Of course I can.
Not all science is based off reverse engineering. Also some technologoes and sciences are not free to public knowledge and are property of the person or company who deceloped it. It sucks, but that's how the US works... Lol. So are you admitting that it is illegal but shouldn't be? If so, I agree. |
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boomerro
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« Reply #80 on: February 07, 2013, 10:21:04 AM »
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He can't point it out because he like many others just twist it all around to suit their argument instead of stepping back and seeing the whole picture.
Because engine blocks and ecu code are not treated the same in a legal setting. |
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The goal of this site is to openly discuss ME7 tuning and promote good practices.
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boomerro
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« Reply #82 on: February 07, 2013, 10:23:15 AM »
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lol... I read that page as it was posted on AZ (which is probably where you got it from).
The real problem here is this.
You seem to believe one persons view on this (the person who wrote that article). Unfortunately many will agree that it is simply not true. And now you're here after reading some random website arguing that checksums = tuner protection.
Yes, I do believe that website. If someone can support some counter evidence I will gladly read it. It is very hard to find reliable information out there on this subject. I am sorry for trusting what appeared to be a legitimate software and hardware company to me... Ops. |
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The goal of this site is to openly discuss ME7 tuning and promote good practices.
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nyet
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« Reply #83 on: February 07, 2013, 10:27:09 AM »
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Not all science is based off reverse engineering. Of course it is. All of it. Period, without question. Deriving the rules of the universe is absolutely done by reverse engineering. Also some technologoes and sciences are not free to public knowledge and are property of the person or company who deceloped it. Copyrighted material and patents are public knowledge. Are you talking about trade secrets? It sucks, but that's how the US works... Lol.
Until you demonstrate any semblance of understanding the law, you have no credibility. |
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nyet
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« Reply #84 on: February 07, 2013, 10:28:16 AM »
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Yes, I do believe that website. If someone can support some counter evidence I will gladly read it. It is very hard to find reliable information out there on this subject. I am sorry for trusting what appeared to be a legitimate software and hardware company to me... Ops.
Seriously? You need proof that checksums are an *anti-copying* technology? Sorry, you are so full of fail its pissing me off. |
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NOTORIOUS VR
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« Reply #85 on: February 07, 2013, 10:32:34 AM »
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Yes, I do believe that website. If someone can support some counter evidence I will gladly read it. It is very hard to find reliable information out there on this subject. I am sorry for trusting what appeared to be a legitimate software and hardware company to me... Ops.
You're contradicting yourself very heavily right now. You say you believe that site for the reason is you are believing what some stranger with an unknown agenda is saying to anonymous people on the internet. Yet at the same time you just said you're not even sure if they are in fact a legitimate hardware/software company since you're saying "what appeared to be". So what is it now? Do you in fact know they are a legitimate hardware/software company? Do you know 100% for a fact what they've written to be correct (already know the answer to that one considering your responses in here are based on a site that you yourself don't even know to be legit) or just saying what they themselves believe to be true in their own minds? Really you need to take a look at what you're trying to argue here. |
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ddillenger
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« Reply #86 on: February 07, 2013, 10:34:17 AM »
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I think the issue here is that you're looking for evidence to support a pre-conceived notion rather than entering into this thing with an open mind.
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Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience!
Email/Google chat:
DDillenger84(at)gmail(dot)com
Email>PM
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nyet
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« Reply #87 on: February 07, 2013, 10:34:25 AM »
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Yes, seriously. Checksums were originally used to check the integrity of the ecu data but were continually developed into a way of protecting the data from unothlrozed modification. Bosch has continued with this protection idea and developed further technology that I would consider "anti-tuning" technogy. http://www.sharkperformance.co.uk/news/article.asp?id=129Sorry. Just saw this. I agree this method is to prevent tampering with the ECU That technique is commonly used in all sorts of places (not unique to Bosch). The problem is that fundamentally, it is a broken concept; cryptography depends on both ends being "trusted". In this case, the private key must be stored inside of the ECU for the ECU to validate the hash. The ECU fundamentally isn't "trusted" because it is in the hands of an "untrusted" 3rd party. |
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boomerro
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« Reply #88 on: February 07, 2013, 10:37:38 AM »
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Look, I am not trying to offend anyone here, I just wanted to inspire discussion on this topic. Jesus guys... As far as the checksome thing, I have no clue on it. You guy day it's wrong and I have no clue who to believe on it. But it's kind of a moot point, there is still the question of legality when it comes to tuners. You guys are pretty steadfast in your beliefs that it shouldn't be illegal, I agree with that, but is it actually illegal?
I will try to keep my mind as open as possible. Assuming its a service, I think you are on point to call it legal, to assume it a product, the legality issues is still questioned in my mind.
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boomerro
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« Reply #89 on: February 07, 2013, 10:39:03 AM »
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Of course it is. All of it. Period, without question. Deriving the rules of the universe is absolutely done by reverse engineering. I think your definition of reverse engineering is not fitting with the legal definition... |
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