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phila_dot
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« Reply #30 on: October 09, 2014, 08:10:11 PM »
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So your saying, knock when torque hits will cause timing from there on to stay on a low side verses trying to climb higher towards optimal timing maps?
Timing never climbs towards the optimal timing maps. They are not used like that. For every knock event detected, timing is retarded a set amount based on RPM. This is cumulative per cylinder. A cylinder specific timer is also set when knock is detected. For every engine cycle without knock on that specific cylinder, the timer is decremented. The timer is reset if another knock event occurs on that cylinder. If the timer reaches zero, then timing retard is advanced towards zero by 0.75* and the timer is reset. This continues until timing retard is zero. |
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« Reply #31 on: October 09, 2014, 11:15:27 PM »
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Thanks for your log, gonna over view it now. Also thanks for the link, I been using devils own's calculator for nozzle size and will look at your link in a few.
My question is, now I am not on w/m injection yet, kit is still in the mail. But in regards to the log I posted that is just on 93 octane. Daz had said to decress timing when max tq. hits, when I looked at it in ECUplot it looks like load is at 205 around 3,000rpms. So the timing tables I have scaled to only 191. I would guess the ecu interpolates at that point what the values should be.
Where should I be making my changes? At 191 load and 3,000? By how much? If someone could explain better for when the area is off the table so I understand that would be great. I also included my tune below so someone could look at it or help me where I don't understand.
Thanks!
** As I see if your calculator link provided that it says basically a 6gph nozzle would work, me doing 2 of the 3gph nozzle would be correct right? That calculator isn't saying 6gph per nozzle right? Also didn't know the frankenturbo's flow was that high, 400 g/s I see tops, thats nice, your timing looks great too, I'd love for them numbers.**
**Warning** Don't flash my file unless you have same mods as me! *** Just saying !!!
Yes, your last timing column 191 will take care of all the load cells above it. |
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AudiMan85
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« Reply #32 on: October 10, 2014, 12:10:56 AM »
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Ok, I'm starting to understand this more and more. Thanks guys
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"Ride like I got a horse stable under my hood" ~ The Game - Too Much
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vwaudiguy
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« Reply #33 on: October 10, 2014, 06:31:43 AM »
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That didn't come off as preachy at all. Thanks for the explanations guys. Honestly I've read a few big books on forced induction tuning, and have tuned a large handful of cars on standalone, but this timing reaction seems to be motronic specific. None of the standalone systems I've dealt with even had knock sensors. All were tuned on a dyno.
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"If you have a chinese turbo, that you are worried is going to blow up when you floor it, then LOL."
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AudiMan85
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« Reply #34 on: October 10, 2014, 09:32:14 PM »
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Going back to DD post he ended his answer with a word I had no clue, a very good vocabulary you have DD, my friend Matt would enjoy your extended vocab.
But to anyone else that needs a break down of the word Hysteresis, here it is.
"Hysteresis is the dependence of the output of a system not only on its current input, but also on its history of past inputs. The dependence arises because the history affects the value of an internal state."
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"Ride like I got a horse stable under my hood" ~ The Game - Too Much
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vwaudiguy
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« Reply #35 on: October 10, 2014, 10:19:41 PM »
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So..is the hysteresis a function of ME7 and how it deals with timing, or the fact your egt's were higher at peak load due to overly advanced ign timing, and it's more difficult to cool it down as you climb in rpm? A combination of both?
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"If you have a chinese turbo, that you are worried is going to blow up when you floor it, then LOL."
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nyet
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« Reply #36 on: October 10, 2014, 10:25:56 PM »
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So..is the hysteresis a function of ME7 and how it deals with timing I hate to pull this, but at this point you really should read the FR  |
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vwaudiguy
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« Reply #37 on: October 10, 2014, 10:30:50 PM »
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I understand mostly what me7 does in terms of timing, and how it looks at previous events to dictate the future. I wasn't saying it was one or the other. What I was suggesting is if there was enough residual heat from past events at peak tq to influence what happens from 4-7 k. One is software, and one is a function of combustion.
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"If you have a chinese turbo, that you are worried is going to blow up when you floor it, then LOL."
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Lost
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« Reply #38 on: October 11, 2014, 01:51:18 AM »
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Timing never climbs towards the optimal timing maps. They are not used like that.
For every knock event detected, timing is retarded a set amount based on RPM. This is cumulative per cylinder. A cylinder specific timer is also set when knock is detected.
For every engine cycle without knock on that specific cylinder, the timer is decremented. The timer is reset if another knock event occurs on that cylinder. If the timer reaches zero, then timing retard is advanced towards zero by 0.75* and the timer is reset. This continues until timing retard is zero.
Right on!! Really good explanation. Thanx. |
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AudiMan85
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« Reply #39 on: October 12, 2014, 07:57:27 PM »
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I attached photo's below. I'm making blind guess as to peak torque changes in timing to stop the timing pull after peak torque causes knock.
The changes in the right place?
Change too much? Too little?
Just trying to understand more what I'm doing at this point. Some people seem to get the hold of this really easily and I have a few area's where I just haven't got it yet.
White are my tuned file that's along with the logs, same file same logs.
The yellow images are the changes that I am guessing on, not sure whats too much and too little, I borrowed alittle bit of changes from a stock S4 L-Box bin but feel I went to high after 3,000 rpms. If someone could help me with this file to get it more perfected in areas I don't understand as well.
I can pay, have parts to trade, send you some beer money. The meth injection for power increase will be the hardest for me, I could use help then. PM me if you willing to help me out, I've helped other in areas where I easily understand stuff and do them a solid.
Someone here on nefmoto remote flashed and tuned a buddies friends car just about a month ago. I don't know the member but they called me to come help flash the file the guy had for his AR and when I couldn't make it there they remotely did it, which I didn't know it was safe to flash that way.??
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"Ride like I got a horse stable under my hood" ~ The Game - Too Much
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AudiMan85
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« Reply #40 on: October 12, 2014, 08:52:20 PM »
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Ok I wanted to post again. I got the kit, seems I need to order or find some fittings like a T fitting for the hose and a 2nd nozzle holder and a bulkhead fitting for using the factory washer tank, seen someone take out the headlight washer motor and putting fitting in there and sealed nicely. Also I see him add a little hose to reach bottom of tank.  I seen some examples on forums where people just drilled a hole near top of washer tank and just ran a intake tube down near the bottom. I was thinking of mounting the 2 qt tank in truck and run hose to the washer tank, again a hose put in to the top of the washer tank. The system came with the flow safeguard thing so I can just use the LED's provided to tell me when I'm out of w/m. The stock washer tank warns you way to soon of low fluid wish there was a way to move the 2 probe "sensor" down further but I have yet to see if there's room down lower. I have included pictures of 3 nozzle locations. Are there the 2 area's we have discussed in this thread so far? Location 1 Location 2  Location 3 - 034 and ARD locations  |
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"Ride like I got a horse stable under my hood" ~ The Game - Too Much
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ddillenger
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« Reply #41 on: October 12, 2014, 08:57:47 PM »
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You need more time to allow the mixture to cool the air charge.
ARD does it right IMO.
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Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience!
Email/Google chat:
DDillenger84(at)gmail(dot)com
Email>PM
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stuklr
Full Member
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« Reply #42 on: October 13, 2014, 04:42:33 AM »
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The more time the water/meth has in contact with the intake air, the better it can knock down temps. I use a set of SRM Bipipes and actually see my IAT drop for most of a WOT pull after cruising for a bit. Just make sure to trigger the system late enough to have the air flow to carry/move the mixture. Unless you use a variable controller, it should only come on a little before peak torque. There will be a little delay in the fluid actually getting injected, so you have to account for that too.
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terminator
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« Reply #43 on: October 13, 2014, 05:29:27 AM »
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Is it safe to inject meth/WATER when EGT is too high? I know water needs for down intake temperature, but as we all know fast temperature change is not a good idea, though I'm not sure meth/water injection changes it too fast.
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carsey
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« Reply #44 on: October 13, 2014, 08:52:56 AM »
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Perfectly fine. Water meth will help with EGTs anyhow. If your EGTs are that high before meth...something is probably very wrong.
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