curamrdan
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« on: September 03, 2013, 10:03:33 AM »
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Hello, can you check my logs, please? Seems to have some problems after 5000rpm at WOT or heavy load. Seem like knock, but log showing rought ignition timing signal, which i think i must go clearer when ecu retard timing , but signal is still rought. Also knock voltage igoing high around 5000 and going little lower after ecu retard. Also boost is starts to drop at same rpm.
Is it knock?(im newbie with ME7logger)
Cars is RS6 c5, rised boost from 0.6b oem, ignition is few deg reduced from oem in 130+load.
First log is 3rd gear WOT, second is 4rd + kickdown.
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curamrdan
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« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2013, 11:56:14 AM »
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Checked the wastegate duty, on prevousion tune have boost 0.75bar around 6000rpm with 80-85% wastegatedutycycle. Now with same boost im maxed on 95% duty (because requested for more and ecu tries to add). Didnt feel like hardware limit i think, but i dont know if im logging the real final duty cycle or how ecu react when fail-safe retarding advance.
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curamrdan
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« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2013, 02:38:17 PM »
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Log picture for quick look, rpm VS ign(probably not logged correct ign variable, but i think its close) VS knockretard
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nyet
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« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2013, 02:46:12 PM »
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Yes. that is knock. btw why not just use RPM as your x axis  |
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prj
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« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2013, 03:12:02 PM »
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Turbos are shot or intercoolers are swiss cheese, or other boost leaks, if it makes that little boost IMO.
Mixture too lean also... will massively slow down as it hits egt ceiling in 4th gear.
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curamrdan
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« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2013, 04:00:25 PM »
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Nyet: im used to time axis, from standalones dataloging. prj: intercooler are common fault, but been told that was temporary fixed&tested by PU silicone...who knows. BOV valves are original, but not cracked. I saw EGT pretty high(but from experience with aftermarked EGT gauges ect - they didnt warming so quick in just one pull). Fueling is untuched, i didnt hook up wideband yet. So going to enrich it a bit in lamfa map. Thanks both for your opinion  One basic question, may i tune for just 0 knock retard? I read some suggestions to tune into little knock to stay as close as possible to best power(ecu will adapt itself). I know teory that staying close do knock doesnt mean best power, im asking for specialy for ME7 tune. |
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« Last Edit: September 03, 2013, 04:05:51 PM by curamrdan »
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nyet
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« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2013, 04:57:06 PM »
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One basic question, may i tune for just 0 knock retard? I read some suggestions to tune into little knock to stay as close as possible to best power(ecu will adapt itself). I know teory that staying close do knock doesnt mean best power, im asking for specialy for ME7 tune.
The most current conventional wisdom is to tune for zero CF. But on a dyno, you may be experiencing worst case IAT, etc. so you might be ok with a bit of CF, because you might be leaving timing on the table for those nice cool days  Also, if you are making a conservative pumpgas based track tune, and you generally run the car on race gas at the track, you can get away with some CF on pump gas. |
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krazydbiker
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« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2013, 07:12:41 PM »
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hate to butt in here, but i was having a similar situation, but was not experiencing any ignition retard when i was getting the same type of "rough ignition signal" retarding timing with another map seemed to make it less, but never perfect by any means, even stock has a slight bit only at high rpm i have checked plugs and nothing seems to show signs of extreme heat or detonation  anyone have any input? |
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curamrdan
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« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2013, 12:04:30 PM »
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krazydbiker: now i logged also "zwgru" variable, and it show ignition advance clean, "ignitiontimingangle" (+overall and desired) are rought at high rpm and after gearchange ect.. Check the picture.
I confirm knock , reduced timing just around where knock retard start, now starts cca 500rpm later where is unchanged timing area.
Also enriched lamfa from 0.9 to 0.82, real afr is 13.0 when hit targed boost(cca 3000rpm)tapering to 12.0 at limiter (i think due ecu lamda change delay?), egt goes down by cca 50deg overall.
Car feels slow when shift to 4rd, hope gets better after cleaning knock completely.
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nyet
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« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2013, 12:10:17 PM »
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13.0 is too lean. you want at LEAST 12.5 just before peak boost.
On 91oct, i target 11.5
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krazydbiker
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« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2013, 05:10:30 PM »
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interesting, thank you, and yeah i have to agree with nyet on that one, i was targeting 12.5-11.5, if any knock immediate richening on 93 before meth, but my intercooler is horrid. |
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julex
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« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2013, 06:28:37 AM »
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I would target ~11.5 on any octane gas with maximum timing the gas allows. Anything over that definitely will allow less timing.
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curamrdan
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« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2013, 02:40:07 PM »
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thanks for replys.
As i wrote, my opinion is that ecu have some delay in target lambda changing(already spoken severel times on forum). I have .82 line at 100% and between 3000-5000 i set 0.81 because little bit more boost than at high rpm.
We must think that it is not a small high boosted 4cyl engine and also stock tune is cca 0.6bar at 13.2afr(.90 lambda target) :/
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prj
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« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2013, 06:09:22 AM »
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So what? Stock is for emissions only.
It's tuned like crap stock, it runs 0.9 lambda all the time until it mashes in to the EGT ceiling.
That's why so many of these cars crack exhaust manifolds and have bits flying through turbos.
Also, have you removed the TQ limiter from the gearbox?
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curamrdan
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« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2013, 02:33:35 AM »
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I would never say that stock tune is a crap. Is compromises tuned by team of much smarter people than me. I(we) can fine tune it to my(our) needs. But must say, that im about 10-15deg less on ignition timing at high rpm, with just 0.1-0.2bar more than stock(on premium fuel). So better than stock tune are the fail-safe functions of ecu.
No, dont have knowledge and equipment to modify gearbox ecu. Dont have any torque errors yet.
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