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vtraudt
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« on: February 20, 2012, 08:07:55 AM »
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Just thought I get the opinion from all you tuning geeks here: what is the consensus how much power/torque the tiptronic can handle? Stage 2 safely with only minor reduction in longevity?
Mild K04?
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2002 Allroad 2.7T 6spd stage 2
1998 A4 1.8T 5spd stage 3
1996 A4 2.8 auto stock
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erroob0977
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« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2012, 10:03:14 AM »
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From what I've read, people generally say it can handle stage 2. There are a good number of people out there running stage 1, 2 and even a few stage 3 on a stock tip transmission with no problems.
My personal experience is different though, my torque converter failed on a stock tuned A6 at 70k miles. In my opinion it's kind of a toss up; you might be lucky and not have any problems, but it could go the other way just as easily. It's the torque converter (a seal inside of it specifically) that is the weak link, an audi dealership tech even told it is more of a matter of when it will fail, not if (and I assume he mostly deals with stock tuned cars at a dealership).
517trans rebuilds torque converters to fix the failure-prone seal - and they said their rebuilt ones can handle 400 ft lbs. So if you're getting anywhere near that with a stock one I think you'd be asking for trouble.
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2004 A6 2.7T 6MT: Built motor with SRM RS6/K24s on E85
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vtraudt
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« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2012, 10:52:13 AM »
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Yes, the seal in the torque converter (treaded 'lock up clutch' code) is the biggest and VERY common problem with the stock TIP trans. But I don't think it has anything to do with the POWER.
If the upgraded torque converters offered by Level10, 517trans, VAST, etc. are REAL WORLD proven to handle stage 3 (say 450 torque), that would be even more reason to get their upgraded TC for all those with the 'lock up clutch' code; and be prepared for putting some live into their TIP (stage 2 or 3).
Anyone out there using upgraded TC and stage 3 power level?
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2002 Allroad 2.7T 6spd stage 2
1998 A4 1.8T 5spd stage 3
1996 A4 2.8 auto stock
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erroob0977
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« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2012, 12:44:38 PM »
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You may be right about the seal failure being unrelated to power, I'm no expert on the inner workings of transmissions. I was thinking along the lines of more power = more stress = higher chance of failure.
I ordered a VAST stage 2 torque converter (they estimate it can handle 550hp / 600 ft-lbs at the crank) along with their tip chip. I should have it in by mid-April at which point I'll also be running a stage 2 tune. Once it's in and I've put some miles on it, I can provide some more input.
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2004 A6 2.7T 6MT: Built motor with SRM RS6/K24s on E85
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passuff
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« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2012, 03:05:34 AM »
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You may be right about the seal failure being unrelated to power, I'm no expert on the inner workings of transmissions. I was thinking along the lines of more power = more stress = higher chance of failure.
I ordered a VAST stage 2 torque converter (they estimate it can handle 550hp / 600 ft-lbs at the crank) along with their tip chip. I should have it in by mid-April at which point I'll also be running a stage 2 tune. Once it's in and I've put some miles on it, I can provide some more input.
Any news about your modified transmission? |
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nyet
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« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2012, 11:56:38 AM »
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they estimate it can handle 550hp / 600 ft-lbs at the crank
Doubtful  Get a proper transmission (6sp) |
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erroob0977
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« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2012, 05:51:45 AM »
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Nyet, I have my doubts as well about its ability to handle that much power but at least the torque converter will no longer be the weakest link in my tip trans. I wish I could do a 6 speed swap, but its out of my budget right now. When I have the money that's going to be one of the first things I do.
Passuff, I haven't put many miles on it at all yet (under 200, back and forth from work). My car is noticeably quicker and more responsive but I can't say how much of that is due to the torque converter because I did a number of other things at the same time (new ATF/filter, TCU tune, downpipes, test-pipes, motor/trans mounts, and a more aggressive tune).
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2004 A6 2.7T 6MT: Built motor with SRM RS6/K24s on E85
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a200tq
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« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2012, 01:15:59 AM »
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Few cars (2.7tt allroads) with k04 and tiptronics normally holding about 350+ hp and 500nm tq. For example-this allroad http://www.audi-club.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=300465 (sorry for russian text, but you can see pictures) handling this load about 15-20kkm with stock tranny and TC. No 17125 yet) |
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passuff
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« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2012, 08:59:31 AM »
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Nyet, I have my doubts as well about its ability to handle that much power but at least the torque converter will no longer be the weakest link in my tip trans. I wish I could do a 6 speed swap, but its out of my budget right now. When I have the money that's going to be one of the first things I do.
Passuff, I haven't put many miles on it at all yet (under 200, back and forth from work). My car is noticeably quicker and more responsive but I can't say how much of that is due to the torque converter because I did a number of other things at the same time (new ATF/filter, TCU tune, downpipes, test-pipes, motor/trans mounts, and a more aggressive tune).
I also drive a RS4 (K04, injectors, intercooler), TCU and ECU upgrade. I bought the car 1000 km ago and the conversion was done by the seller about 8000km ago. He promised me the car has about 360hp but until now iI haven't checked if it's true. How did you realize the TCU tune? Did you just edit the torque values? |
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erroob0977
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« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2012, 04:30:21 PM »
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I didn't tune the TCU myself, I sent it to VAST to be tuned.
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2004 A6 2.7T 6MT: Built motor with SRM RS6/K24s on E85
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vtraudt
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« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2012, 07:45:05 AM »
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I ordered a VAST stage 2 torque converter (they estimate it can handle 550hp / 600 ft-lbs at the crank) along with their tip chip. I should have it in by mid-April at which point I'll also be running a stage 2 tune. Once it's in and I've put some miles on it, I can provide some more input.
I have to soon take the tiptronic out (reverse gear failure; no lock up clutch code yet) and need to decide a) install upgraded torque converter (similar VAST (they are gone; not sure if their successors offer the upgrade still) b) put K04 turbos in for mild stage 3 tune Currently: custom stage 2 tune (logged 253 g/sec 2 days ago on the MAF, but needs some work), stock K03, gutted piggy, main cat delete. You should have a few month and miles on your upgraded TC and TIP tune. What is your setup (tune, mods, etc.), logs (MAF, torque, boost curve, etc.), what changes did you notice from the TC upgrade and TIP tune? |
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Logged
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2002 Allroad 2.7T 6spd stage 2
1998 A4 1.8T 5spd stage 3
1996 A4 2.8 auto stock
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AARDQ
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« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2012, 07:55:27 AM »
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Reverse gear failure? That typically spawns from a torque converter failure. Sometimes the TCU will set a code (readable with VCDS) but it won't ask for the check engine light. My TC failure was evident from the fact that it wasn't locking up, and the TCU flagged it, but I got no CEL.
The TC internal seal failure is independent of power/torque level.
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vtraudt
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« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2012, 08:29:30 AM »
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Reverse gear failure is 2nd common tiptronic issue (the 'drum' of the reverse clutch pack cracks, tons of slipping). No code is thrown (no CEL, no vagcom).
Lock up converter clutch failure is the most common. No CEL, but VAGcom shows the code. Leaking seal is causing it. Upgrade TC have the revised part in it. Sometimes, tiptronic issues can also be caused by issues with the valve body.
The one has NOTHING to do with the other.
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Logged
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2002 Allroad 2.7T 6spd stage 2
1998 A4 1.8T 5spd stage 3
1996 A4 2.8 auto stock
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erroob0977
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« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2012, 08:44:29 AM »
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I have to soon take the tiptronic out (reverse gear failure; no lock up clutch code yet) and need to decide
a) install upgraded torque converter (similar VAST (they are gone; not sure if their successors offer the upgrade still)
b) put K04 turbos in for mild stage 3 tune
Currently: custom stage 2 tune (logged 253 g/sec 2 days ago on the MAF, but needs some work), stock K03, gutted piggy, main cat delete.
You should have a few month and miles on your upgraded TC and TIP tune.
What is your setup (tune, mods, etc.), logs (MAF, torque, boost curve, etc.), what changes did you notice from the TC upgrade and TIP tune?
It's honestly hard to say what changes were due to the upgrade/tune considering I am comparing to a TC which had been on it's way out (intermittent TC code) for quite some time. However the shifting has been very smooth and quick since I did the trans work - and I've had no problems at all. Initially I was running a strong "2+" set-up (about 270 g/s, spike 18 psi tapering to 13 ish), but blew a k03 and am now running a "3-" set-up with GT turbos and stock fueling till I have money to upgrade it. |
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2004 A6 2.7T 6MT: Built motor with SRM RS6/K24s on E85
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diagnosticator
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« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2012, 07:21:08 AM »
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Changing the ATF with a good 100% synthetic ATF that is on the ZF approved fluids list, like Pentosin ATF-1, helps a lot in avoiding transmission failures. I believe that the torque converter seal failures are provoked by dirty ATF. Dirty oxidized old ATF also decreases the clutch fricton capacity and the resulting trans torque capacity. For chipped TCUs, the direct/reverse clutch drum failures where the rim on the drum cracks and breaks off the drum, allowing the clutch pack retaining snap ring to come out of the snap ring groove, will be more likely to happen due to the increased system fluid pressures applied to the clutch packs by the Tip chip/tuned TCUs. The direct/reverse clutch drum is available as an aftermarket upgrade, that is a lot stronger, and won't crack at the snap ring groove.
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