NefMoto

Im trying to get some knowledge about DSG DQ250.

I have some parameters that can be of interest.. I´ll post them here and maybe people can discuss further. Ill post my progress and testing here aswell later..



2F56 Max Momentenanstieg Anf. bei aktiver Launch Control
(Maximum Torque at launch?)

442 Diagnose: Maximale Ausgangsspannung am Drucksensor

521 max. Zeitdauer für die Freigabe des Abbaues durch die Zusatzparabel

89A maximale Abtriebsdrehzahl Launch Controll

89C minimale Temperatur Launch Controll

8A8 Schwelle Bremsdruck für Aktivieren LaunchControl
(Minimal Brake pressure to aktivate launch)

8AA Schwelle Bremsdruck Bremse lösen in Launchanfahrt
(Brakepressure minimum for launch)


130C Begrenzung Momentenvorsteuerung

134C max Drehzahl für Gang (?)

1744 max. Motormoment Getriebeschutz

174A Freigabe Motoreingriff LaunchControl über Fahrgeschwindigkeit

1774 Sollstrom fuer Hauptdruckventil

17B0  Daten Moment zu Hauptdruck KL

17D0 Maximaler Hauptdruck

25FE maximale Motordrehzahl

2684 Max-Drehzahl fuer naechsten Gang nach RS bzw. HS-Schwelle bei BergabStrategie in D



These are interesting!!

959 Filterzeit Bremse erkannt für Einstieg LaunchControl
(Time before launch?) (800ms)

95A Filterzeit Bremsdruck Bremse lösen in Launchanfahrt
(??)


I anyone have dokumentation post it :)

What I have found out is, that clutch pressures can alter a little from the ECU side by minimize the dsg seen torque when driving at light throttle and show 500Nm when flooring. I think that it's the microslip adaptation which can be altered like that. Other thing I found regarding the launch and accelerating from standstill is rlsol filter, at least with small turbo it makes difference to shorten the filter. Wise please correct.

How much amps and pressure do you get now?

Near 1.3A and 13.7bar.

if it helps

i'm also busy with dq250.
friend of my haves a mk6 gti with 302hp and 450nm i made the dsg software my self and it drives good.
this week we gonna test it more ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWklDNmZrus

How did you guys solve the launch delay issue?

I have tunes some dq250 tcu's and i have a way faster launch delay by seting  " Filterzeit Bremsdruck Bremse lφsen in Launchanfahrt " from 40 ms to 10ms

What are you using to read/write the TCU?

was about to ask the same question!

i think kess v2 or dsg mini reader


and any help what map need diasble  DSG kickdown ??

nef is full of information but its hard to find from time to time :)

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=358.msg2275#msg2275

I have the later DQ250 im reading via KESS tool it worked without any problems. But some need

These are intressting i could try to adjust these parameters and se if launch activates quicker.

Adress from TEMIC Ols above.

959: Filterzeit Bremse erkannt für Einstieg LaunchControl
(Time before launch?) (800ms)

95A: Filterzeit Bremsdruck Bremse lösen in Launchanfahrt

If you use TEMIC ols and you have newer DSG try to compare maps in WinOLS with HiLo and LoHI then its much easier to compare and find maps..

In order to disable kick down i lower the downshift tables for " S " & " D " .i make them their upper rpm values near to 3000rpm and then there is no kick down.



I use kess V2 for read/write the dq250 tcu's i normally read them directly from the tcu conector and i write them via cars obd .

That file is locked to your ols?
I cant open it.

Yes I knew about those, but I was interested in what the OP was using. I never had success using Kess to read my Fxx DQ250 via OBD.

Thanks. I'll try read mine via the connector on the box

have you tried reading via obd instead of direct on the gearbox

Yes i have tried to read direct via obd but with no success ...I emailed to alientech and they advised me to read via tcu connectro directly. I have read  Dq250 Cxx, Exx & Fxxx series with no problem.

Try the one in the first post that i posted.

and how to use winols connect windows one side HiLo other side LoHI ???

i try this file make damos
connect window not work  HiLo and LoHI same time

When using WinOLS HiLo comparsion is not aviable i have noticed.. I use 2.24

Im a bit busy now.. but i Will post an XDF here later when it is tested..

Anyone had success with the eobd1300.exe?

Tried it with two different cables via obd, i have no connector for gearbox at the moment.

the 2nd cable, blue ftdi from ebay cant identify #hw and #sw :(

try using mapanalyser to compare the files.

It allows you to overlay the files in line graph form, 2d, and match up the maps. Using the start address of the known map you can find the start address of the unknown file..

i bought mini dsg reader from alixpress works perfect.

Interested thread but... is there anyone with translated damos ? :)

i'm working on a dutch damos ;)
takes a lot off time bud we allready have over 40 maps.
we use the damos thats floating around on the forum.
the adress are not all the same bud if you look good you can spot it easy.

heres the excel of the maps from the Ols file..

Maybe someone wants to translate

Has anyone else needed to do a DSG adaption via VCDS after writing?

A while ago I had slipping on my Mk6 R. Used to get slightly better after an adaption but still slipped like mad. Got software wrote on it was exactly the same - til I done another adaption.

Problem I've got now is the clutch takeup when bringing up the brake is far too harsh (causes the box to back off and try again, kind of bucking) and the gear changes are absolutely brutal.

I've managed to get a read and am trying to get a hold of a DAMOS/A2L to see if I can see what's been changed and to what. Without an FR or any public tuning info, it looks like it's gonna be trial and error, but a definition should help me.

same situation golf 5 gti
slipping dsg after tuned
and adaptation error code dsg

many time low oil level problem or mechatronic error :( or clutch

i think gti mechatronic problem because to low clutch pressure 8,4bar or maybe oil levle

but car It did not come back
 

Hi, it happems to have 2 good friends that have Golf 5 Gti dsg cars , both tuned by me (ecu+tcu) their tcu starting acting like  the behaviour you describe when they need to replace their clutch puck, near 150000 km/h at their odometer that time .Usually when mechatronic fails it is not working at all,so estimate is mechanical problem.

yesterday i change the launchtime to 40ms and wow thats really quick :P

I see we're making progress at getting nearer the speed of light lately! Especially for a car, WOW!

I'll post a translated ols file later, but I found these maps. which are related to the brake pressure required to down shift in a certain gear.

025C0;" Brake pressure for raising the rear threshold in the 2nd gear"; GesBrs_PBrMin_RSAnh_ko [2] ";" 1 x 1 "
025C2;" Brake pressure for raising the rear threshold in 3rd gear"; GesBrs_PBrMin_RSAnh_ko [3] ";" 1 x 1 "
025C4;" Brake pressure for raising the rear threshold in the 4th gear"; GesBrs_PBrMin_RSAnh_ko [4] ";" 1 x 1 "
025C6;" Brake pressure for raising the rear threshold in 5th gear"; GesBrs_PBrMin_RSAnh_ko [5] ";" 1 x 1 "
025C8;" Brake pressure for raising the rear threshold in the 6th gear"; GesBrs_PBrMin_RSAnh_ko [6] ";" 1 x 1 "

They decrease as they go up through the gears, so you need less pressure on the brake to downshift, Raising the values would allow you to allow more pressure before it downshifts.

By the way this allows left foot braking if you raise the pressure significantly. I'm guessing though there may be a map that would allow braking if accelerator is pressed.

Why need to change TCU to allow left foot braking??

Why? so it doesn't change down gear when you brake on the track...

Ahhh NIIICEEE!! What maps did you calibrate?

These?
959 Filterzeit Bremse erkannt für Einstieg LaunchControl
(Time before launch?) (800ms)

95A Filterzeit Bremsdruck Bremse lösen in Launchanfahrt

I havent been able to try this yet.. My postal service have managed to loose my programming cable that i ordered :(

yes just decrease the 800ms and try it out ;)
its just all testing and testing and reporting :P

Does the DSG have checksums?

Yes.

At last i got my cable today im gonna try this..  Did u do anything to the Brake pedal pressure treshold?..   ("Minimum brake pressure to activate launch mode")  Sometimes at race i forget to press the pedal hard.. :(

My KESS with 2.8 software solves this

i just leave it oem! otherwise its to fast.
i dont test it yet with lower valleu

Ahh ok, thank you.. I have a mini dsg reader on the way and didn't know whether that would check them or whether there were any to check

Update:

To compare TEMIC ols file with newer DSG files you need to view the code in 16bit and FF then activate the window for the file you want to edit then press "LoHi" ..

a little update

I manage to find how to improve shift paddles responce.


2AE8 - Kennfeld fuer Multiplexerzeit (4x4)
2B08 - Wartezeit fόr Multiplexer beim Ausschalten des Multiplexerventiles

Nice.. So there is a delay on those on OEM ??

The maps are pressure v temp. Once the temp is above 10degrees its 20( I guess MS) so yes a small delay, reducing it to say 5 or 10ms really going to make a noticeable difference?

i set it to 10ms and yes it is noticable..

i have also found the Launch Control switch in order to make it work when the esp in ON ...it might be usefull   for the 2wd cars.


97A- Freigabe fόr eine Launch-Control-Anfahrt mit aktiviertem ESP- 8bit


tested and is working

Very nice indeed :)   We should put all these maps in one nice juicy XDF file...

I found these files, both originals and stage 1.. they only seem to have 3-4 maps changed on each but may be of some help..

Had a look. Raised launch RPMs, raised torque limiters to 500NM and lowered max. shift times for D and S. No increase in clamp pressure from the looks of it.

i really dont know how to create a xdf :P

No problem im workin on it :)   Im a bit slow nowadays building a new garage..

anyone use antligal launch dsg gearbox ?
how to set dsg config
dsg launch rpm higher ecu launch control not working car not start relased brake

You simply raise the dsg lc higher (+500rpm) from your launch control on your ecu and works fine.

try first dsg 4200rpm and ecu 3600 not work ..

Which map are you editing?

dsg tcu incrase launch rpm 3000 -->4200 this rpm working not problem
but i set ecu launch control 3600 and relase brake ,car not start, just revving 3600 ....

What mapanalyser you talk about ?

I've tried the 800ms to 40ms in "Filter time Brake detected for startup LaunchControl"
and it improved the start of LC drastically
it was "KusLauchFiltBrEinst_ko" map.
Also about the LC in the engine and LC in the DSG i used 4500rpm LC in engine and 4680rpm in dsg and it is working fine.
trying to figure out how to make more pressure because i have a little bit of slipping when going from 1st to 2nd after launching.
Would be nice to get some help on this  ???

 Im interested as well :)

I don't think anyone will share this... :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

In general you will have to raise the mA on the valves and the Hauptdruck. one of the key maps that will allow you that is Sollstrom fuer Hauptdruckventil (HdrPHauptZuI_kf_z) do not forget to fix the axis on every refference to bars.The are other tricks too but since you have the definitions you can search.

Then they don't belong on a DIY, knowledge sharing forum.

Agreed.

A lot of members are doing this for a leaving including me.As other people do i choose to give just enough information(in what i know) so someone can be motivated to search read and test.From my point of view it is not so good to criticize every member while you have only 19 posts sharing almost nothing.Further more i do not see any contribution in this particular matter from you(Dq250) which is actually what are members talking about.

Totally agreed. DIY and sharing it is not the same. I think.

Enviado desde mi BLU LIFE ONE X mediante Tapatalk

The criticism is valid no matter who it comes from.

99% of the real problem comes from people who know things but only take, never share, not from the clueless who don't know anything.

This. I've noticed a few "senior" figures on this page only really seem to turn up to slap down those who've sinned either from chatting shit or simply interpreting wrong.

I can't help but wonder why they're still here other than to give their ego a quick nudge when they're feeling low.

A lot of folk will be on here to satisfy a fleeting hobby and will disappear again. Others will actively contribute where they can (I try my best, albeit only from what I've learned thus far from MED9). I doubt very much the next APR is waiting in the wings to hoover up any nugget of info to dominate the tuning industry. If you're worried about some shit little backstreet garage with a cloned Kess stealing business, then you've got a shit business yourself. A very closed and immature industry. It's sad, especially when you look at how open the parent IT industry is.

agree 100%...

Now just wait for it..

TANK YOU for the hints!
will try to figure this out and will inform you guys about the results!

What do you mean? I am not sure if i understand this 100% correctly. Does is have more power or does the clutch disengage faster, wheelspin?

It means the car Launches faster(the time that is needed after realising brake )

When stock, it takes a little time until the car realizes that you want launch control to activate, and when modified you can call it immediately and go bang bang -> wheelspin  ;D

Some dsg software versions have a delay in releasing the car from launch State so it takes like 1 sec to start after you move your feet off the brake. My TT R32 was like that and was pretty annoying before the dsg tune.

So it is just the time before the actual launch starts, not the time the clutch slips from fully open from fully closed.
One could say its only relevant when drag racing to reduce reaction time basically.

thank you for explanation

I havent manage to shorten that time... I must have been editing something else hmm :(

Does someone know what to change to deactivate downshift and forced upshift?
This is the only way to do a clean wot log in ONE gear i think and its not possible on a stock dsg.

I am not very experienced with dsg cars and drivability, maybe there is a easier way to log wot in one gear until redline.

try
driving in manual mode
shift to 5th with paddles
downshift to 4th and hold paddle

or is it 3rd, upshift and hold paddle.

either way on certain models of gearbox this used to hold the gear for a wot log

For downshift you will need to deactivate the kickdown and for upshift just change the rpm limiters on manual higher than the engine rpm limit.

I think you need to learn to drive tbh. I mean not even learning to tune, but just learn to drive.
As long as you don't press down the kickdown switch and just lean firmly against it it will not shift anywhere up or down in manual mode.

Yes i learned this in the meantime. thank you all

I made an XDF for my DSG from my TT-07 3.2.. This is what I have so far.. Please feel free to fill in but make sure to update version and so on..

Made some updates to categories..

Added Time to Launch after brake release.... I have edited mine to 40ms.. no diffrence hmm..

Just keep pressed up or down once shifted on paddles or gear stick and it wont change even on kick down.

That is not true for all dual clutch transmissions. This is configured in the cal area, and configured differently on different cars.

The UK cars I have driven do this, so I'm only really commenting on them. If it varies on others then I wasn't aware of this...

Hello

Changed to 400ms. Big difference guys  ;D

Anyone know what this map does:-

KD-Rückschalt-Kennlinie fuer RS 2->1 in TT

Its a 4x1 map

KD-reverse characteristic for RS 2-> 1 in TT

When you are in Trip Tronic if you are in 2nd gear looking on the X axis (Nm torque) DSG downshift automatically to 1st gear in order to don't cutoff the engine :)

On trip tronic you can leave as it is but on ECO or D is quite nice Rückschaltkennfeld 2->1 Eco (address 02428 etc)

 ;)

Thank u. I will test it

A bit off topic but gears change like snap and I'm concern that would it strip teeths off or something? Second gear is the worst it really whack the gear on. Good for the acceleration and feeling but..

I think better look how the trans works inside and then you will understand how silly this statement is.

 ;D I tried to say that clutsh bite is like whack to drivers back. Google showed that 1th and 2nd gears are a bit wider&bigger teeth than rest of gears, so would it last? Do no one know that 2nd gear would strip teeth?

Thanks for sharing mate, this xdf is for which bin ? :)

a little more update about the kickdown


i found this map

Minimal zulδssiges Fahrpedal bei Kickdown (Minimum permissible accelerator pedal at kickdown)
so i estimate that if you put the value above 100% it will disable the kickdown not tested yet but i will soon .

During my study on this gearbox I've prepared an Excel file with all the interesting address highlighted by colors.
I've done also an Xml file for RomRaider tool to be easy for the mods.

I hope it can be helpful for everyone and I hope to gain some points in the forum :)

Enjoy!

Yes, it will ..
Just set it to 110 or 120 % and not KD will be detacted.

Also look für for a gradient for accelerator pedal. Virtual kickdown works by pedal threshold and gradent, pedal is pressed.

somebody got some more info?

i'm busy with a dutch mappack!

i find a lot of maps.
and i test LC with esp on and off and it works!
i also find maps for cooling and raise the clutchpressure.
diagnostic limiter for clucht rpm.
 i will upload some youtube movies ;)

So i started digging into the DSG stuff using the damos from this thread. Am I the only one that has screwed up axis values when the map references "Nm" in one of the axis? I've tried shifting the axis a few bytes left and right but it seems like the axis has been put over some RPM values. The values in the table all look correct though.

And also i tried the HiLo on the damos connected to LoHi on the newer file both in FF 16Bit, but I really can't find maps that way. The only way I seem to be able to find anything is by using LoHi on both sides in 16Bit Decimal. See the screenshot for the weird axis and if I'm lining the maps up correctly. Thanks for the help guys, this thread has really put me on the track to figuring this stuff out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaHE1d-qqTA
esp on

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KuMs-2Uf5k
esp off

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pjht5jCiHHE
esp on

Golf GTI MK6  300HP 450NM.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6x5PgY5SiFU
this is a LEON 2.0 TDI
20bar clutch. shifting time adjust. and cooling adjust.
1st gear only with full throttle!

Do you mean that you set it to 20bars or you actually have them in your vcds log? Your post does not make any sense. You can set them to whatever you like but this does not mean you will have the correct pressure.

Further more why are you using the LC with ESP?

20 bar clutch pressure to make sure i dont have any slip.

dutch pro tuner claims that its impossible to have LC with esp on...

That's impressive, do you have logs with the clutch pressure, Solenoid current and requested torque?

It is not impossible... it works fine even when it is stock on most versions. and 20bars are capable on the new TTRS 8S DQ500...Never made more then 15.5 16 bars on normal stock dq250.It would be good to log your pressure as i do not think you will go to the levels you believe.

Its easy to run 20bar. To get the car to behave properly and let go of gears at red line with 20bar is the problem.

i will make a log when i have some time.

a dutch DSG specialist are doing it for years with 20bar pressure.
DSGdokter  also known as TVS engineering.
the go to 600nm max on stock clutch.

look at there facebook.

https://www.facebook.com/TVSengineering/

You just have to know that you did not invent the wheel neither the specialist.....A lot of tuners are running such torque figures and you don`t need to make log for posting here to convince anyone but how did you know that your tune could do so much pressure anyway? you are just telling me you did never do a log..Anyway pointless talk here.

So i see some tuners like MRC have dsg tuning where your launch control rpm increases when you hit the kickdown switch. So say 3500rpm at full throttle and then 4000rpm when you go past full throttle and press the kickdown switch. I hooked my VCDS up to my car and looked at accelerator pedal position, there's 2 different values. 'Accelerator pedal position sensor 1' goes from like 7% with my foot off the throttle to 80% at full throttle and 88% when i hit the kickdown switch. The other pedal position sensor blocks go from 0 to 99% with no change when hitting the kickdown switch. I'm pretty sure it uses the 0 to 99% sensor value in the launch control RPM map because my actual launch RPM is only at the 100% cell in that map which means its passing the 85% cell and reaching the 100% cell. Any ideas how this is achieved? does the kickdown switch show up to the TCU as a digital switch or does it increase the pedal position value (maybe past 99% which could be the max VCDS shows)?

Could just be a custom routine using b_kd and wped_w as there is no video describing that.

In any case it is not hard to do.

So it would require custom assembly code?

DSG sees the kickdown switch as 110%, nothing fancy or custom required

Thank you. It wasn't showing on VCDS so maybe it's a diagnostic limit

B_kd       :  Bedingung Kick-Down

S_kd      :  Schalter Kick Down

I have a partial DQ250 Fxx file extracted from a SGO/FRF which is 704KB, but a full read is 2048KB.
Since I don't have the cable to read directly off the TCU, I can't check, but from what I've seen, the full read is the same, just that the partial file is the data area from 30000-DFFFF, then FF everywhere else.
Is this correct?

Hello, can be:

KusLaunchNstall_kl
KusLaunchNstallESP_kl

Mod axis to 110% ?


Hello, how you extract the file, with this service? https://dsg.expert/sgo2bin-converter/

Thank you!

I use the SGO to BIN service from my X17 with MMS

Nice to see ppl keepking this thread alive :)  My car is in pieces for now.. im building a new garage.. I will come back and test alot.. still got my 3.2T  :o)  Im not dead i will be back suckers,, )

Was the bottom damaged?

KusLaunchNstallESP_kl is the launch RPM with ESP on, I believe there's a codeword mentioned somewhere in this thread to activate launch control with ESP on.

Just to update, I modified the axis on the launch RPM map, so that the last 2 columns are 100% and 101%. And now i have 2 different launch RPM depending on if i press the kickdown switch or not! The kickdown switch doesn't show as 110%, because with 110% on the axis it doesn't reach the specified RPM

So I've come across an older DQ250 file and I'm struggling to find the maps even using the HiLo LoHi like suggested in this thread. I can't even find the LC rpm map which should be easy  ???

I've attached the original. Any tips for find maps using the damos in this thread?

Are the factors the same? like on the LC map in the damos, its just a factor 0f 1*eeprom, so it's normally easy to spot

It is a first Gen Cxx and the lc is a bit different however it is in the same area as tin the older ones you just need to be a little more creative and look for "Stalldrehzahlen" .

When you say it's a bit different, do you mean it doesn't ramp up in rpm according to pedal position and it is more of a static value?

Hello guys, i'm studying DSG on a Golf 5 GTI 200hp, and i'm looking for a damos/map pack for this gearbox:

HW: 02E927770AE
SW: v069111102ea__getriebe_DSG_OF5R
VIN:
Ver. SW:
Ver. HW:
SW agg.: 02E300043C 1111

I have downloaded the other damos for DQ250 found here, but it's all different and i don't know how to use it... also...how is it possible to know which Mechatronic and version is used on a DSG file?

Regards

The damos you found around is just fine. The reason that you might find it different is the HiLo and LoHi byte order.

Usually the First Generation of DSG boxes are Cxx like the one you have.A damos file or hex /a2l pair will not be usable unless you get the FR for it in order to understand the Mechatronic functionality.

Usually all Cxx boxes have a HiLo byte order and Exx and FXX have LoHi. That is a way to know directly if this is cxx or something else.

If you are using CMD flash it will tell you through the identification what kind of box it is if you select the wrong one. If you boot it with magpro or something similar you will know from the instructions.

The file sizes are a big "tell" also but some tools give a different output on the newer models.

Thanks :)

Yes i've compared the damos floating here with my file, and indeed i notice this HiLo, LoHI thing :) but now i know also who have what :) thanks for this explanation.

This file has read by KESS by the way :)

And now...how do you advice me to continue to understand, find maps in this file without a def file?

In General :

The easy part.

Find torque limiters and change them according to your ecu tune.

Always more then one and on new mqb you will find them also by gear.

Find the rpm shift points... for starters change only the last columns and set them always less then your actual rpm limiter in the ecu..This part is tricky with the newer dsg boxes but your cxx is older.. There are some 1x1 maps too.

Find the shifting times... don`t over do it there start by reducing 30ms from the total times and work your way lower .. 80 to 100 ms is fine for those boxes in S or TT mode...

i will not get into details for other stuff but again in general if you need higher pressure and you have a big turbo application you will need to find all the relative valve current maps and pressure thresholds as well as some correction factor maps.word like K1 and K2 will be your friends :)

The cherry on the top of the cake is the micro-slip adjustments which might smoothen out your tune.

just don`t forget that your ecu tune has to be also in balance with your dsg tune.You will find mirror maps too and on older boxes are much less then on fxx or mqb ones.

issues for the future :

Torque intervention type requests for LC
LC activation/deactivation
Kickdown activation/deactivation
Paddle response
Downshifting
and much more...

hi have you got corresponding bin file?

who have normal file? it's broken
can't open

I have attached the file that I read using a Kess from an A3 2.0T DSG

DQ250 CXX
SW: 02E300043C 070 1110
HW: 02E927770AE
v069111002EA

File Size: 448 KB

The first 8000 addresses are blank.

Can anyone confirm that the posted file is a full and correct read?  I have found files on Nefmoto that are 1408 kb (Presumably newer DSG) and CXX that are 416 kb.

I am interested in upping the torque limiters and increasing the K1/2 clamping loads when necessary.  I played with MDNORM, but on an aging set of clutches, it just began slipping as I assumed it would.

I have a problem with DSG. Audi A3 8P.
The dsg was replaced with another one from the Audi TT.
The steering wheel paddles do not work after changing the box.
I tried to upload doughs from two other dsgs. The steering paddles start working, but the box throws out the errors of the individual gears.

Read is correct.

Thanks!

I read the DSG again with the Ebay Mini DSG Reader, below you can see the two read out files.

Kess V2:

- 448 KB file size
- First x8000 addresses blank 'FF'

Mini DSG Reader:

- 416 KB File Size
- x8000 addresses smaller,

Shortening the KESS file by 32 kb results in 2 identical files, I suppose that's just a difference in the tools?  I can forsee issues if you read with MINI and flashed with Kess or vice versa.

Is there normally data in that region that isn't read by the KESS?  Like non-programmable data or such?

you can modify gear ratios to yours

like to share this kp file i made with the ori file for dsg dq250 from a 2012 vw jetta what else is needed for stage 1/2 tcu tune

Around is full of fully defined Exx - Fxx damos... but nobody has a fully defined Cxx ?

was my map pack enough for a stage 1-2 remap?

I have Dxxx is that similar?

Still struggling with more than 14.5bar clamping and 500nm

what are you using to log the dsg? and what is your TCU number

Vcds ( appreciate it may be a vcds limit)

3d900020h

If you where referring to me.

I am working on Fxx TCU in these days.


I have changed some maps. I exported maplist which I have changed. And attached map pack too for other tuners :)

My problem is about Launch Control. When we run with Launch Control DSG shift gears more slowly than normal WOT shift conditions.

Is someone worked on Launch Control for better Drag times?

At the end we have never talked about how to  raise clucth pressure and how it works in theory :)

What is the connection between TCU and ECU ? What about to let see real torque from ecu to the tcu...or something similar... ?

Clutch Pressure works separately. Just raise clutch pressure but for torque maps you have to make good optimization for both files.

There are a lot of Cxx variations....old and new...lots of differences between them in terms of calibration maps locations.

Does anybody have a problems with upshift from first to second gear during lauch control? i have rs3 2012 (460 whp\650 wNm) and if there is slippery surface and i have wheelspin than there will be delay and kick when upshifting from first to second gear. As i understand the problem there have to be treshold of average front and rear wheels speed. And if front wheels havehigher speed there wheel be kick and delay. Maybe someone knows how to cope with this problem

raise your rpm limit if this is on S mode...

My rpm limit is 7200/instead of 6800 stock
Even if  I rise it to 8000/ it would NOT solve my problem
due to fact that engine hit rev limiter several times until speed of front and rear wheels will be equal I think

RS3 is an AWD car and what you are describing is not possible on gen 5 haldex if the engine is tuned correctly.
The pre-control on the haldex will keep front to rear hard locked on WOT in 1st gear, especially if any slip has occurred.

My guess is severe mistakes in tuning engine (torque underscaled) and DSG.
Not to mention the RS3 has a DQ500 which is nothing like the DQ250, and you are posting in the wrong thread.

You know that gear shift on d and s in a dq500 gbox is speed dependent right ?

Of course I know that dq500 shifting tables is speed dependant. Maybe I'm wrong that front wheels are spinning faster. But all my friends(10 mans on ttrs 8j, rs3 8p, rs3 8V.1) have same problems on slippery surface. also dsg would NOT shift when i'm drifting on snow. I mean wheels is spining in corner and there is no matter what speed is, 60 or 160 km\h

The front wheels are not spinning "faster" than the rears with haldex on full lock.
You made up a problem that does not exist.

Tune the car correctly, and there will not be issues.

Let's return to the topic with DQ250: D

We can also open a DQ500 thread ... it's interesting to go deep ...: D

2012 gen5 haldex? all cars this year i know of are gen4 haldex.

8P RS3 is definitely a Gen 4 0BY coupling.

I was talking about 8V, not 8P. Did not notice year.

Regardless, Gen4 also keeps back-to-front pretty locked on WOT, it has decent feed-forward.
The gearbox shifting or holding gear has nothing to do with wheelspin in particular.

Ok. Have you any minds why car have delay in shifting from 1st to 2nd gear when wheels are slipping on surface?
and there is no matter what gen of haldex installed on a car and what level oc tuning of car is( same problems on completely stock cars and on stage 3)

Ok but if you understood this there would not be a question here...You can make your software react like that in purpose..

Not shift until it gets to the preset kmh threshold.That is why Prj is telling you to tune it right.

To be more specific since you are going strong about this find all your "Schalt-Tabelle" and fix the first to second gear by lowering the kmh to that area.

Make a video of your own car and check the kmh that your engine is hitting the limiter but not getting into the shift speed threshold.

I notice there are some maps and also pressure maps repeated in files, but only 1 time reported in damos... is it right? Are they the same to define?

Mirror maps for different coding areas..

So they have to be changed too :)
Thanks

Hey ,

Is there any way to tune the DQ250 software , like ....

When you are driving in D , to have normal time shifting , but when you put the lever in S , to have lower time shifting ?

Just want to leave the car act normal in D mode , and to be "sport" :) in S mode.

Thank you

It is tuned like that by factory...if you can`t tell it is because the difference is small between d and s mode...For example 200ms to 120 ms.

There are certain occasions though that the difference is much bigger...

Jumpin in here again.
Since i have the DSG in the 3.2 im a bit interested in whats in the TTS.. I assume that TTS uses DQ250 as well.. Would be interesting to compare the 3.2 DSG and the TTS DSG.. And is there any mechanical differences

AFAIR only gear ratio and of cause application.

Haveing latest TTS with 380Nm torque, gear 5 and 6 are strengthened

I think your R32 DSG is Cxx mechatronic. Newer types Exx&Fxx are better. Mechanical the gearbox is not much different afaik.
Old type has 20bar sensor en newer 24bar iirc, but sensor is in mechatronic.
I changed my TT to Golf6 F type mechatronic, make gearratios fit and will work.

Johan

which one map id, name need change gear ratio ?

thanks

For change gear ratio look at NsyZaehneGangP_ko , NsyZaehneGangS_ko & NsyZaehneAbP_ko   maps it is per gear actual teeth number 8bit values

Hmm intressting.. So i shall look for a new mechatronic unit.. is it possible to interchange you say?  Im struggling with finding a good damos for my Cxx aswell.. maybe that will be solved if i get a newer mechatronic.

Found a description of DQ500.. its in german but might be useful for someone to learn the gearbox.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190503/30656c11d738df21ce504d5b7c4c236a.jpg)


Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk

Maybe a stupid question but how do you know what gear ratios you have? So if i change my mechatronics to a newer one (Exx or Fxx) i have to enter my particular gear ratio right?

from elsa win(letter code from gearbox) or old mechatronic

any solutions to rise up cluth pressure?

if you change mechatronic you have to move all those maps you mention from your old to your new one ...

Yes, it is possible, but opening the DQ250 software, you will see that this is already done by factory.

I'm busy investigating implementing the R/S3 boost building style of launch control for the GTI models (For use with drag radials / slicks), trolling through the calibration data for the LC application, and comparing between the platforms.  I see TVS states that they can do this, is this a custom/ASM edit to get it to work or can it be implemented with just calibration changes?

Any advice?

i m was looking for it also , but unfortunatelly i have not any advice to give..i done a lot comparing between the files Golf7R compared to Golf 7 GTi  but found nothing.......it looks like to me is a change to ASM.

I attach both files in case anyone else want to have a look

Hello friends, does anyone know the codeword that enables the LC with ESP ON?

It is not enough to raise the LC in ESP ON mode but I must enable the LC to be activated with the ESP ON.

Thank you

Excuse me for digging up such an old subject, I believe this adjustment in ECU launch control rotation is just with the correct implemented antilag system? I could not find any original map that has this function, if so, could you tell me what it is?

Another issue, I'm working on a Passat B6 MED17.5 and DSG6, I'm trying to enable launch control but I didn't find any map in the dsg file.
Could someone help me with this?

Anyone of you can please help me to find these 2 maps in this ori file?

- max. engine moment transmission protection           mmr_MMaxGetriebeschutz_ko
- Permissible Maximum engine moment in transition R           mmr_MMaxGangR_ko

Thank you

You want to go really fast in R? yes?

Hello. I have Passat b7 alltrack 2013 edc17c46 2.0 177hp dsg 6 dq250 02e  gearbix code PEP. i fitted gearbox from passat b8 2.0 190 edc17 c74 dq250mqb 0d9(PZR) using mechatronic from b7 (02e mechatronic + clutch sensor). I need to adjust gear ratios in 02e mechatronic from b7 fitted on passat b8 gearbox wich has different number of teeth on input and output shafts.  So i need to move data about gear ratios existing in Mechatronic of passat b8 gearbox to mechatronic of passat b7 because gearbox works with b7 mechatronic now since b8 mechatronic is incompatible with my ECU. Can anyone hint me pls?

LOL

You wrote almost everything that you need to do already.
I will give you another hint - you will also need to copy the shift RPM's over because with different gear ratios the upshift/downshift RPM's are a little different and if you have the wrong ones, you can get a problem where it will hop back and forth between two gears.

If you want someone to do it for you - no problem, send me the files, I'll give you a quote.

Is LC possible with ASR traction control?

Hey all ok. Thanks bd!

Yes, but in my experience it's not very good.

in dsg cars with ESP works LC, but with ASR there is no LC

This is not true. There is a switch whether LC is allowed with ESP or not, and in most cars it's off.
Anyway it's pretty pointless if ESP or ASR is active. You don't get any better result than just flooring the car from standstill with ASR without any launch control.

Usually there is massive wheelspin and then ASP/ESR makes a hard cut and the recovery is very slow.

Can anyone help me with this?
Follow the file I would like to activate LC

I will try it tomorrow...

i am working on a dq250 Fxx and i am trying to find out what a few maps are that start at 327f8 to 328A6 in my a2l that i have dose not show it since its for a Exx here is the ori

0x327F8 lands straight in the middle of a shift map

how many shift maps are there. i see there looks to be a few but my a2l dose not have it. so i am unsure of the size of them.

Got?

BAH... just saw that you were not asking for this.. i confused you for the other member that asked for LC with ESP on...! Anyway..



Yea mate, please see attached. MAP ID is KusLC_EnLCmitESP_ko
ADDR 309A6 on your file (1byte switch)

You shall fill it with 1 to enable LC with ESP

how many maps are between these two address?

Is anyone able to help with an answer? I have most of the maps found, beside between them two address. Even map names would help alot.

Thank you very much for the answer, but I want to activate the LC with ESP off

This car did not come with the factory activated LC and I want to make it work.

can someone help me find te rpm limiters on manual on cxx 043c 1111 gearbox? i can provide ori and most of the map pack I made for the one who finds me. thanks

What do you want? Rpm limiter in Neutral or gear shift?

what maps are needed to get Launch Control to work.  i found KusLaunchNstall_kl and KusLaunchNstallESP_kl but when i went to test it would not work. working on a DQ250 Fxx

I have on my car Golf 5 GTI 2007

DSG HW 02E927770AE and SW 02E300043Q

Can someone help me with a map pack ?

Thank you

Hi!
Anybody known how to make lc with boost?

i think at the moment only TVS , i try it by comparing dq250 from Golf7R but not manage to find it

not only tvs...
can you give me golf7R lc boost file? maybe i can find

you can read this post
https://www.drive2.ru/b/540747516195373152/

KusLaunchNAbMax_ko

which file have lc with boost?

example this
g7 gti 041
and g7 r 012l this file make boost

thanks,
need to test... find 3 maps I-P factor speed limiter and brake pressure for activate LC

I'm having issues finding maps in 069112302ea__getriebe_DSG_NG5W (using 02E300011CP and alternating hi/low)

Wondering if there's an updated version that might be easier to identify.

Any one know if the above is the latest version, if vehicle info helps; it's for a 06MY A3 3.2L.

The closest I've fond is 069112202ea__getriebe_DSG_RG5W and a path or partial which is 069112902ea__getriebe_DSG_RM5P, but my search came up as S3 for the 2202ea and no results for 2902ea.

Hello, i have one easy question... i don't understand yet... which is the ecu maps that give the torque to the TCU...anyone of you can explain please ? For PQ platform and MQB platform.

Regards

Seriously? 216 posts and where have you been the last few years?

Yes seriously...i've read this topic hundreds time...if you have found this info...please tell me the number of post where it has been said :)
Thanks

Great Thread but i need a Little Help on a FXX DSG File.

For what are the more UP/Downshift maps in this File. Coding Relevant ?

Thanks for your Help

I have yet to see anyone summarize the maps and their functions in any coherent format. This is the problem with forums like this.

No threads, no real effort at a coherent summary or collaborative effort on a FAQ. Just 200+ posts to wade through.

Does anyone know from this data which DSG variant I have? I presume CXX but when I tried to read with mini dsg reader it would ID but then suggest to me that i had selected the wrong ECU type. Its a DSG box fitted to a MK5 GTI BWA engine.


VCDS Version: Release 20.4.1 (x64)
                Address 02: Auto Trans
Control Module Part Number: 02E 300 043 Q
  Component and/or Version: GSG DSG         081 1305
           Software Coding: 0000020
            Work Shop Code: WSC 01279
                      VCID: 224E4DF0FDC39A963D-8076

Advanced Identification
     Serial number: 00000701120648
     Identification: TFK-030
     Revision: 04508010
     Date: 12.01.07
     Test stand number: 8501
     Manufacturer number: 0648
Flash Status
     Programming Attempts: 1
     Successful Attempts: 1
     Programming Status: 00000000
     Required Conditions: 00000000
     Flash Tool Code: 00001 001 04926
     Flash Date: 00.00.00
Software
     000S           
Misc.
     Hardware number: 02E 927 770 AE
     Lot Number: C30
     Type Lock: 0001
VCDS Info:
       VCID: 224E4DF0FDC39A963D-8076
       Labels: 02E-927-770.clb


When I tried to read it got stuck at both slow and fast init and showed ecu communication error. I made my own adapter conector with 2x grounds 2x +12v, CAN-L, CAN-H, Kline as per diagrams online for the DQ250

Yes it is a Cxx .. C30

Hmmm strange! Wonder why it wouldn’t read then. Possibly just the fact it’s a crap China clone

Hello guys, as you know dq500 and dq250mqb has boosted launch feature and some tuners can make this feature to the older dq250 versions.

Here is the example video :   https://youtu.be/jsUEcDTKf_4

Is anyone have experience about it? which maps should we touch?


Best Regards

mate did you look previous posts?or just post what you need for .

As i write on that topic almost none have manage to make it (only TVS )

do you know what address that would be. my a2l dose not have that map

Haven't tried it but, i believe that you can implement hard launch control on ecu like you would for a manual but having break switch & full throttle instead of clutch switch.  set to 200-300rpm lower than dsg launch control threshold.

i mean, if im thinking right, it will never get to dsg lc rpm so it will never cut throttle and the engine's ecu hard launch control will be enabled  ;D

Have any of you used HP Tuners software for tuning the DQ250?

Some screen shots of the interface

http://mygolfmk7.com/knowledgebase/hp-tuner-suite-screenshots/ (http://mygolfmk7.com/knowledgebase/hp-tuner-suite-screenshots/)

There's little guidance on the HP Tuners site and the software appears to be limited to providing brief descriptions of the variables.

Hi everyone! Please help enable launch control on DSG250.

Sure! How about we do your engine too? For completeness.

Thanks, but I have 225 hp and 480 nm. And now the problem is in a good start. I deal with DSG myself with the help of this forum. But I can't figure out how to turn on the launch control.

anyone got anything for the DQ250 MQB i been using the Exx full damos but there a few maps that seem to be missing for the MQB dq250

DSG DQ250 reverse light signal


Old dq250 (eg. in audi tt 1gen) had direct reverse gear signal on pin 12 while newer gearboxes are not using this pin. I have newer DSG (02E300014H 069D61902ec__getriebe_DSG_chD6 F31S) and would like to ask if is it  possible to activate this signal in software? I need it as this gearbox will be working in older chassis.
dsg readout attached

check this one:

3191B 1x1 8Bit
Id: SbeEnableRFL_ko
"Ausgabe Rückfahrlicht ein-/ausschalten"

Thanks Leonhard, I set to 1 but it is not working and still constant +3V on pin 12.

Ok, too bad, but that's all I got  :-\

Witch way did you check ?

T20a/12 should be a low-side-switch AFAIR..

Now my DQ250 is not in a vag car, but i still have med 9.1 ecu.  Would it possible to code the dq250 to have launch , even that i dont have any ESP /ABS

WTF? Nice first post.  ;D

You ever figure this out?  I am going to be updating mech unit potentially in my mk1 TT as well, probably run into this issue.

Sorry, no (switch mentioned by Leonhard tested on Fxx mechatronics with no luck).

Can you work with the LED gear selector indicator for Reverse? When the 'R' LED is powered, the Reverse lights relay is powered?

You can use LED gear selector indicator for Reverse. But ther is a COM pin for all sellected mode and it is a + connection and all selected mode led go to ground. It is a little problem because on COM pin have anytime a 2v power and when the mode is selected you will have 12v. Must make a module.

What about clutch pressure? Seems it's not easy to raise it.
From what I read, the more the engine torque, the more the pressure. I guess K1/K2 torque?
There is no Clutch Pressure map also that could be adjusted. Some tuners patch the code.

Mikroschlupfadaption , Try it

How to increase the boost pressure when launch control？Now only 0.5bar boost pressure

TVS

I want to tune it myself

You can try IP_FAC_PUT_SP_BOL_ATJS and IP_FAC_PUT_SP_BOL_ATJS_4WD if you haven't already... this increases PUT_SP on launch control.  Mine is set to 2.2 or ~220kPa for launch control but it never gets close to reaching target, about 0.5 bar max for me too.  But I have seen other cals that have this set to 1.0 / 0 bar, so it might help.  Simply raising the RPM has been sufficient for my use but I'm not a serious drag racer either.

Curious to hear if others are willing to share some info on how you can increase boost with oem DSG logic.

Thanks for your answer.Is the map you mentioned about SIMOS18? My car is MED17.5. I increased the launch preload in the TCU, but it didn’t work

ah yes, I assumed s18, sorry.

I didn't want to start a new post, so I'm posting here.

My question is, when tuning shift timing, I change shift time to 100ms. If I request too fast of a shift time, what will happen in terms of clutch/transmission intervention? I have put the shift timing to 100ms and it shifts fast, but what would happen if I put it to 20ms? Obviously, it can't shift that fast, but will this cause tcu to micro slip more? Which I would believe in terms cause shortage of clutches, right? dq250/dl501 gen 2

I recommend up to 60msec, not lower. With 60ms it is very fast without issues in a well maintained DSG.

Hello to everyone. How can I check if my DQ250 is correctly seeing brake pressure info via CAN from ABS ? Trying to diagnose no launch control available, dont know what else could be wrong. ABS is mk20 CAN, has two pressure sensors on the master cylinder :)

The faster you request the synchronization, the more torque intervention there is.
The car is not faster because the synchronization phase is faster. The whole shift is just harder, but to achieve this synchronization time it requests much more torque reduction, so you have a complete power interruption and a hard shift vs. only a small power interruption.

Anything below 300ms does not make the car any faster, but hey if you like the feeling of it shifting hard, then go ahead.

can someone tell me how to activate or where to find the steering wheel paddles?

gearbox is exx or fxx but wiring is like tt 8n cxx

The address is #8E94 in the available Exx 3.2 TT file, I just dont know what value you should make it (in the mentioned file it is "2"). In Fxx file it's offset about 30000, you should find it easily. I tried value "1", it didnt work and I havent tried any other. We should look in an early Cxx 3.2 TT/R32 file, the value there should be the one you need.
Nobody knows how to check if brake pressure info is floating in CAN ?

Thank you very much, i did find it and its "2" in both files.
You tried "1" and it didnt change anything.

hmm, maybe have to find a exx version running on a actial car, not just the ols/damos everyone has.
maybe it preproduction and 2 means off

I tried "1" and there was a difference - paddles stopped working from CAN, but analog inputs still didnt work. From what I know, only the earliest Cxx boxes had analog paddle inputs enabled (TT mk1 3.2 and golf R32), Exx Fxx could do that also but you needed a special, hard to find, file if replacing from stock Cxx to Exx or Fxx mechatronic. So we need a very old Cxx file to look at.

This info is a golden! Thank you for the professional response.

Update. Analog inputs/outputs won't work with AL mech unit, don't bother.
How do I smoothen downshift clutch engangement ? I'm experiencing very annoying jerking when braking and coming to a stop before every red light, that happens when dsg downshifts and starts engaging the clutch, thus raising engine rpm. 1.8t with diesel dq250.

Hello. In the standard TCU AUDI TTS file, the switching time with a decrease in torque is 120ms

On a related topic, I'm trying to determine the table/setting that would modify the downshift engine speed during braking.

This early post presented some variables that looked like they might accomplish this function, but I've tried changing them and not noticed my expected outcome.

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=12449.msg103636#msg103636

The 0% accelerator pedal position column of the downshift table sets the downshift rpm when off throttle (coasting), but with brake pressure, this engine speed can be altered from what I have observed with a couple of commercial tunes. 

Have you (or somebody else) been able to change the downshift rpm when braking, if so, where did you make the change?

Currently trying to get some more clamping pressure from a CXX unit with no success so figured I'd post in here. I have very limited understanding of these so far - as such set about increasing what look to be valve current limits, and pressure limits for K1 and K2. So far to try and increase pressure I've changed:

- Daten Moment zu Hauptdruck KL (seems to be engine torque or clutch torque vs main pressure, maximum was 13bar, increased to 15)
- max. Strom für max. Kupplungsmoment für K1 (1400mA stock increased to 1600mA)
- max. Strom für max. Kupplungsmoment für K2 (1400mA stock increased to 1600mA)
- KL über IKp0: oberer Stromwert K1 (1000mA stock increased to 1400mA)
- KL über IKp0: oberer Stromwert K2 (1000mA stock increased to 1400mA)
- Maximum value of I_POben[K1] (1200mA stock increased to 1400mA)
- Maximum value of I_POben[K2](1200mA stock increased to 1400mA)
- KL über IKp0: oberer Druckwert K1 (10 bar increased to 15bar)
- KL über IKp0: oberer Druckwert K2 (10 bar increased to 15bar)

I'm only getting a max of 11 bar, at about 1100mA with specified clutch torques of 400nm and engine torque of 350nm.

Is 350nm engine torque, and 400nm specified clutch torque even enough for the mechatronic to decide to give more than 11bar? In which case i need to increase the indicated torque from the engine?

I've attached some logs in the hope someone may be willing to push me in the right direction. If it makes any difference the car is probably making around 270bhp and 400nm at this moment

What problem are you trying to solve?
What do you think adding more pressure will do?

No real problem just yet, as at this power level it seems to function ok however I’ve got a larger turbo waiting to be fitted to aim for ~350bhp. I wanted to try and get to the point where I was able to increase the clamping before fitting the turbo to avoid wearing out the clutches, that’s all really

What you don't realize that "clamping" is closed loop based on microslip and it always runs as much pressure as it needs to run.
There are shit ECU tunes with non-linear torque and as a response to that shit TCU tunes were created that effectively disable the microslip adjuster and run way too much pressure and cause the transmission to drive like shit.

Deal with problems as they occur. I don't think there will be any issues with 350hp gasoline if you report the torque correctly to the transmission and take care of basic limiters.
If it's not slipping then it's running enough pressure. End of story.

There are hard limitations such as 500nm calculated clutch torque, which need a patch or fudging stuff in the cal, but you probably won't hit them.

I have a problem with r32 turbo and some weird torque interventions (probably?) when reaching over ~550Nm on the flywheel. With low boost (up to about 0.8bar I think) it behaves properly. With target boost ~1.1bar and some overboost to 1.2-1.3bar gear shifting is hard and some kind of power hesistation are feelable.

In dsg logs in both cases I'm reaching 500Nm (or 497 or whatever is vcds showing).

Described problem is clearly visible on the highlighted area of the screen. Boost is stable and about 10deg of ignition is "missing".

Cutch pressure is 16-17bar, no slippage noticed.

Am I hitting this hard limit in this case?

me7l logs attached

Log migs / miges

thanks for reply- new logs attached

I am tuning an A3 8V with 460whp and 580Nm, the ECU tuning was not done by me, the engine torque shown in the logs is 389Nm, there is skidding occurring when driving on the highway, I have been trying for days to solve it but without success, the solenoid current does not exceed 1100mA and the clutch pressure does not exceed 13.22Bar.
Any suggestions how I can solve this problem?

Proper ECU tune which reports torque to the gearbox in a linear fashion.
It doesn't even matter what the absolute numbers are, it's just important that it is linear.

Or destroy the microslip control and make the gearbox drive like shit with excessive pressure all the time.
But I'm not going to tell you how to do it.

Linear you mean to have KFMIRL and FMIOP linear, not bend due modified only last 1-2 rows?
Absolute numbers, you mean reported torque or pressures(as you previously noted its closed loop...)?
Can i rise a bit the MDNORM to rise reported torque closer to real values or it will result by sideeffects?

MDNORM has almost zero effect on DSG. The absolute numbers matter very little.
The important part is that kfmirl and kfmiop are completely linear with actual torque.

If they are not you will have slip.

This works until 500nm calculated clutch torque. Which again, is calculated internally based on clutch parameters and the torque output from the ECU means very little. After you hit 500, you either make a 5120 style patch for the TCU or you do the microslip controller destruction.

I'm driving A3 8V as well and I had exact same problem on some reputable, but actually shitty custom tune. It was driving me nuts and no matter what I reported to the tuner it wasn't fixed properly. They just retarded boost\ignition in the area of slippage to make less torque, which is very stupid fix.

So, I was forced to tune my car myself (had an experience with tuning of high performance drift cars on standalone ECUs, but never touched SIMOS18). It was night and day difference when tuned correctly. Now, it is just a stock feeling gearbox all the way.

TL;DR: it is not a gearbox issue, but engine torque model is broken as mentioned by prj.

But i as you know, there are some forum tips to reduce MDNORM = to reduce reported torque under DSG limiter(to avoid modifing it). You already answered there, that is stupid idea undereporting torque. MDNORM has direct influence on it, so why on other direction (rising) it has marginal effect?
My noob experience, on MED17 2.0 tsi dsg K04 conversion , when i tried to do linear kfmirl/kfmiop (same % increase of kmirl and axis of kfmiop, ideal inverse), i gets torque monitors code on part throttle accel(no matter what limiters ect i FFed ect then). So i must reverted back to "bend" style, only last 2-3 rows edited and as bandaid rised MDNORM to roughtly bit over real tq to compensate low the report on that "bend" iop maps. No problem with driving on Sport, but on D owner claims slippage occasionaly...

Reducing MDNORM is a bad idea because all other control units that use torque, for example ESP etc start to work incorrectly.
DSG actually does not care a great deal about MDNORM, it only cares that reported torque is linear - if you reduce MDNORM you can bypass limiter, but the control will not change much as long as IRL/IOP are correctly extrapolated. Usually it's enough to change only last row of IRL/IOP, but the map must remain linear, you can not "bend" it. For example if real torque rises 20% then reported torque must also rise 20%, and this must be true throughout the entire torque range. If real torque rises 30% in some area but reported torque only 20% then you will have slip instantly pretty much. It's due to the way they did the torque calculation inside the transmission. ZF transmissions are much simpler in the way that there's simply RPM x Torque maps with pressures and ramp rates, but no such thing exists in DSG.

Yes, you did it wrong. Your MDNORM change does not do anything for the DSG. As said before, it only cares that torque is linear. If it's not -> slip.
If you need more torque than 100% allows in linear form you must change entire map, also friction map, and of course relax torque monitoring a little or modify it as well (only applicable to MED17). If you do a small change, e.g. 20% more, then you can get away with just changing IRL/IOP and friction torque. However, if you need more, you will have to start rescaling things like idle control and so on. Basically all maps that are in torque % must be rescaled by the same amount if you want the transmission and engine to work correctly after some point. E.g. if MDNORM is 400 and you want to go to 600, there will be a lot of work to be done. But if it's 400 and you want to go 500, you can probably get away with very little without hurting idle control and LSD/DASHPOT/ARMD too much.

I grasped the whole tuning torque correctly but I have a question that's on topic but on a different tcu ecu.

mg1 ecu, zf trans 2019 Audi s5... I can mess with torque and make it say 600nm car shifts fine, or make it 1000nm and car shifts fine, but feel mopre torque reduction. So the question is, how do you know where to put torque? Someone stated raise torque if you have clutch slip. My thoughts are with seeing 900nm of torque it's going to try and reduce a lot of torque making shifts pull power and harsh shift. What is your take? I have a dyno to record actual torque.

Report the correct torque of course!
And the rest you do in the TCU!

How do you know what reporting the right torque is? For example, simos 18 ecu. You can raise boost by raising max torque limiters, but I feel like torque readings are over scaled... simos 18.1 2015 Audi A3, ecu reports 500-550nm running stage 1 full e85 25psi 20 degrees of timing. This seems overscaled, but I listen to your strategy. (tuning is simply scaling up.) Well I keep scaling up and just feel torque readings are just high. Car drivers fine but my scaling being so high I lose resolution in certain loads. Hints why I feel people under scale the car to have more resolution and driveability. Maybe I'm way off, shed some light lol

I over scaled my Mg1 2019 S5 ecu not knowing because I was listening to your strategy. This led to very torquy driving as it went from 200nm to 900nm in a couple second. So I'm lost, do I only raise torque scaling if I'm experiencing clutch slip in mech unit? Or do I keep looking for the million torque limiters till I don't hit any torque limiter but results show extremely high readings?

You report the correct torque.
And you learn the difference between indicated torque. Inner torque, friction torque and clutch torque.

Hi,
After tune dq250 fxx to 16bar pressure i had an issue with start driving, when i leave the brake the car not start to surfing and if i tap on throttle there is bomb from gearbox, someone have any idea or details about that?
Maybe is related to micro-slip?
Thanks

Ask the place you bought the "tune" from.

I did by self with damos, so there is no one to ask that’s way i asked here.
Also my car run with ecumaater black.
If someone have any idea and can give some details that will be great.
Thanks

In that case you can start with saying what you changed and why.
There's a million ways to screw up the transmission.
And also on Ecumaster there's no real way to output correct torque, so cold engine / hot engine will always be problems etc.

Hey. Is there a table for clutch "grabbing" RPM vs throttle pedal % when taking off from a standstill ?

Yes.

Did you redo all the adaption after you started doing all this flashing? Try going through the process in VCDS and then see if that fixes it before you chase other tables.

Yes, adaptations change nothing. I've read about the same (I believe) issue in other posts here. Its a very annoying, laggy takeoff. Doesnt matter how much throttle you give it, you just can not quickly "jump" from a standstill. I'd like to try modding said table, so it starts engaging clutches at a higher RPM when the engine has more torque. But I'm probably thinking wrong. What you think ? I can do logs, just dont know what to log.

Are any of you working with braking downshifts?

I'm trying to learn what table/variables adjust the downshift RPM in response to braking force.

(http://mygolfmk7.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/braking_vs_coasting_downshift_analysis.png)

Hi! I need help setting up the dq250. I have a powerful 380hp engine, but the gearbox starts to cut the boost and close the throttle when switching to 5th gear. I will pay who can help me

Detected CU type: DSG DQ250F
Соединение ОК
HW: 02E927770AL F100004
SW: 02E300058P
SW версия: 3515
Кодирование: 0018

Did you find map pack or damos
Because it tried to use ols hi/low but with no luck 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Did you manage to find any info on this map. I would like a bit more rpm on take off. It's too aggressive at the minute

There are several maps related to stall speeds based on driving mode and temperatures. I believe changing the lower values on these will allow more rpm on takeoff but not had chance to road test yet

What i felt is this:
All things depends only the ecu file without torque (prj said in a post this). If the Torque/load is not not what dsg expected ..........we are fucked.
I try from 2 years to make my me7.5 with dsg dq250 to works right but......without chance. If i make to wqork in drive mode not work in sports or manualy , and inverse.
The biggest shit/problem is when the dsg changes gears, it felt like throttle cut but on the log don;t look like this, maybe DV open very much evenif the rpm between dsg don't drop so much.
And this happen in partial throttle not WOT!
I hope i help with my experience!

Have you dsg converted a manual car?

What ecu file are you using ? 032hf works decent

Yes, dsg converted to a manual car.
I tried 032hf too, and it make the same , i think is not from what kind of file i use, it is something from 5120hack or dsg not like something when change gears with accel pedal less than 60-70% between 4000-5000 rpm. The dsg is a petrol one so must work ok on 1.8t. I changed the rpm shifts points too but the same problem.

Hey all

I have a question (maybe noob?) regarding DSG tuning.

Right now i am running a mk5 Golf GTI edition 30 with ~ 300 hp.
Power output is nice. My load curve is higher compared to the Audi S3 which has stock from factory 350 Nm. In my PolarFIS display it shows me  fullload sweaps max. 350Nm. The labels in my ECU for horsepower and torque output to „kombiausgabe“ are of course raised.

Raising the load to higher than the Audi S3 (which has 350Nm), is the calculated and reported torque from the ECU to the TCU so accurate that my DSG (stock, nothing tuned) already stops me to not going higher than the 350Nm, or is the torque output value just bullshit?
KFMIRL and KFMIOP are linear.

Thx in advance

Torque = (miist_w - mdverl_w)*MDNORM
miist_w has a maximum value of 100%.
If your MDNORM is 350, then you can never go over 350 even if mdverl was 0%.

In case of DSG KFMIRL and KFMIOP don't have to be just linear, KFMIRL actually has to have correct miist_w (inner torque) filled for every operating point.
Can be done on dyno, preferrably an engine dyno, but normal one works too if you record mdverl_w at same time.

And if you are capping out MDNORM, then you need to increase it, but that means rescaling the whole map.
Now, if you increase it a little, you won't have a lot of problems, but if you increase it a lot (and rescale IRL/IOP of course), then all your idle control, DASHPOT, ARMD and LSD is gonna go to shit. Have fun calibrating that.

If your KFMIRL is linear as you say (and looks like a line, not a curve), then you have no problem yet.

Thx Prj for your answer.

Well MDNORM is the stock value as in the stock Audi S3 dataset which is set 500 Nm.

Thx for that calculated formula for torque.
How can i know or get the information if i am torque limited by the dsg right now or not?
log miist_w and mdverl_w and calculate torque?

Best way would just be to fix my dsg so i dont have think about torque limitation…i guess.

Read fr and log migs/miges
Ser limit in dsg to 450nm

Uhmm if you have not modifed the DSG then of course there's a torque limiter in it and that torque limiter needs to be increased.

I've been datalogging my E10 DQ250 using VCDS and one of the channels is "Transmission Limitation" which seems to sit at 615 Nm except for dipping during changing gears. The TCU is completely standard as far as can tell. Should I assume this is fake news and it actually does have a lower limitation set?

Are you even hitting the 350/380 nm limit?
All of these transmissions are limited without exception.

Thanks for confirming, and yes I am hitting the 350 Nm limiter. I'm trying to get my head around how all the limiters come together but haven't made any changes as yet.

I've seen some of your old posts about indicated torque. You stated move it out of the way... Maxing it out ff. Doesn't the dsg use indicated torque for proper clutch torque and shifting? Or is it only using reported engine torque?

Obviously this does not apply to DSG. On a manual gearbox it does not matter.
No 1.8T/2.7TT/4.2TT ever came with a DSG from the factory.

Problem: Launch control too early shift (gear 1 to 2).

Every 1>2 shift when I use LC is too early. I've noticed in the past that it occurs when cluctch slips but I have incrased pressure and and gearbox still shifts at 6000rpm instead of 7000rpm which I set in the tcu software.

I have similar problems in Fxx and MQB boxes. Power range- about 400-450HP and 550Nm

vehical log with rpm and pressures attached

   Any solution?On 350-60hp is the same,the problem have with LC from 3500rpm+

so for those that have dsg that did not come with lc standard use KusLauchNAbMax_ko , i changed the -1000 value to 10 as in the factory lc software. i also changed temp for lc and allowed with esp on to test and it works. dont forget to adjust lc rpm maps as they can sometimes not be setup in non lc software

Could anyone point me to an address, that would disable LC ? Not enable, but but disable. Brake pressure requirement, engine temp or any other map that would eventually disable LC in this Cxx file :) Thanks.

do the opposite of what i wrote above and it wont work at all

Yes, i understand, but i cant find anything in these old Cxx files :D

i actually learned this from a cxx file set that was posted in another forum, ill find the files and post them here.

6b3fe is KusLauchNAbMax_ko set this to a proper negative value (stock uses -1000) and it is disabled

Could you explain what you mean by this please, I don't know if you mean a correct corresponding irl/iop relationship (that's been covered a thousand times already) or the maps themselves being a linear shape (like stock)?

The _slope_ of the line reporting torque needs to match the _slope_ of the actual torque. That is, if torque increases by 2x from point A to point B, the reported value also must increase by 2x or DSG is sad. Which usually means reported torque needs to be a line, or pretty close to a line, unless you're running your setup in some terrible inefficient area.

If you scale the whole line (ie underreport torque by 30% ACROSS THE BOARD), things continue to work as long as you re-adapt the DSG, although there is usually no reason to do this if you are competent and/or have access to a DSG ASW torque cap patch. If you flatten the top off (like most clueless tuners), everything breaks.

The absolute numeric values are not important on DQ250, the slope/gradient is what is important. The way the clutch model on DQ250 works is basically by picking two data points and drawing a line to determine the relationship between clutch engagement and pressure. The values that are used to draw the line are not important so long as everything is scaled to fit on that same line.

I'm not planning on taking the under reporting of torque route so correct me if I'm wrong:

Once you have set KFMIRL for your target load it is crucial to have it match KFMIOP, as KFMIOP is what is used to look-up actual torque, based on actual load. I'm assuming there are other factors, otherwise increasing KFMIRL is essentially under scaling torque?

Actual torque is then reported to TCU and providing there is no limitation, a clutch pressure is calculated that has a 1:1 correlation to reported torque.

If reported torque and actual torque are out of wack, the TCU cannot do its job.

edit*

To infer from:

 "The _slope_ of the line reporting torque needs to match the _slope_ of the actual torque. That is, if torque increases by 2x from point A to point B, the reported value also must increase by 2x or DSG is sad"

Thus, increasing the last 2 rows of of KFMIRL is alright (KFMIRL is no longer linear shape) as long as it is represented in KFMIOP. Ergo, load and torque don't need to be linear, only KFMIRL and KFMIOP need have correct correlation?

The fundamental issue is that KFMIRL is inverse of KFMIOP.

Everyone here tunes KFMIRL first and then makes KFMIOP match it. This works only as long as nothing in the powertrain gives a shit about the actual torque.

Once you realize that KFMIOP is load to torque and tune that first, then everything else falls into place.
And yeah to do that right you will need a dyno.

Or you can do like all the super tuners do and mess with the adaptations so the DSG runs way too much pressure all the time.

You know what, you've summed it up there, reading that just made it click. Pretty simple really.  ;D

I guess the procedure would be to figure out the max torque you are looking for, 500nm for example and treat that as say 90 torque, then find the corresponding load points for all other torque figures ie. 250nm @ 45 torque, 400nm @ 72 torque (90/500*400), with the corresponding RPMs of course, then plug it into IOP.

Internal ECU torque is linear with ACTUAL torque.

You're saying on an engine dyno stand the torque reported will match ecu reported torque via can readings? Am I reading this correctly?

No, torque is a 0-100 figure in med9.1, I was describing the process of making actual torque from the engine linear (1:1) with ECU torque via KFMIOP because the DSG applies clutch pressure 1:1 with torque.

Yes, but "treat" is not the right word. 100% is MDNORM.
Also, the issue is that a lot of the stuff in the ECU uses torque internally, such as idle pid, friction torque etc.
Once you change your 100% to something else, you have to change everything else too.
It's kinda like 5120, just for torque.

DQ250 also can't really read higher than 630nm.

Okay, I understand. I take it no one has a definitive list of the maps that need scaling? I don't mind doing the testing/logging.

Mostly Dashpot, LSD, LLR and then friction tq.

It is actually possible to do some data processing by parsing an a2l file and then programmatically checking whether there is torque anywhere.

Just spent a few hours looking through an a2l file and the FR. A full 5120 like patch may take some time. Not 100% sure I know exactly what I'm looking for tbh.

I guy I know who deals with a lot of TFSIs says, "it's the remaps that break the DSG" I guess not every tuner is prepared to go through this lol.

Not quitting yet though, if anyone else wants to pitch in...

 

Regarding timing; if it's added, thus increasing engine torque at load X, will the respective changes need to be made in IOP load point X or is timing factored in internally and torque "corrected" before the final torque figure is reported?

Tried reading the FR but couldn't figure this one out, hoping this can help myself and others get a grips with correct torque reporting!  ;D

Look at ignition angle efficiency calculations.

I've searched and searched, I can't figure it out  :-[

Could you point me in the right direction?

Open the Alfa ME7.3 english FR and look how miist_w gets calculated.

miist_w is the output of KFMIOP which is corrected by lambda and ignition angle efficiency (mdverl_w?) by subtraction and then the result is multiplied by MDNORM to make torque, I need to look into how mdverl_w is calculated.  :P

*edit

I see mdverl_w is motor torque loss so miist_w is where the lambda and ignition angle efficiencies are factored in, that's why you suggested it lol

Hi! This is a new information for me, so thanks for sharing. Currently i'm struggling with my dsg DQ250 on my audi s3 8p. I've had a dsg rebuild (new flywheel, new oem clutch pack, cleaned mechatronics, new filters, oil, etc.) After rebuild, if i use more than 60% throttle, the car "push/pulls" between shifts. No clicking sound or anything, just the little stopping between gears at high load. Any idea whats the problem?
I have stock ECU and TCU software. The car is stock except a decat downpipe, lambda(1) is on the car still, lambda(2) is not connected, and it throws check engine light also. Can it be the problem? I thought lambda(2) is only for correction and the lambda(1) is what really matters.

+1: Anyone knows what is the standard clutch pressure? The car only pulls above 10-10.5bar clutch pressure, its very smooth with 9.5 bar, same torque logged at both pressures (370nm), just higher throttle

What are the names? I have to alter these so the car dont roll from standstill uphill, needs to be done for D and R.

This is called stall speed in automatic transmission (stalldrehzahl).
If you make it too low you will have huge turbolag and if you make it too low at low pedal angle then you will stall/bog the engine.

Depending on the car and abs model, you need to enable/retrofit hill hold assist.

I dont want to do it with autohold, i'm going to try with standstill maps.

Hey,
I'm trying to change shift points in Fxx Superb 2.0TDI 170HP, is this correct way to make it? Names/id's in mappack may be mixed up, I was guessing correct map by RPM's.
Here is dump (ori/mod/kp)

Yes - there is way. You need maps pointing in correct locations. Two ways to aquire that - find any floating in internet ols and via map search nail it to required locations, second - buy mappack or use any online tool.

Hello! I'm new to DSG mapping and experimenting with my Passat B6 DSG DQ250 Cxx. I have a mappack with which I managed to raise the torque limits, the switching speed and optimized the switching points, but there are several things that are not clear to me, for example, is it necessary that if I change the torque limits, I must also change the maximum revolutions and what is the logic ? I also have a noticeable reduction in torque when shifting to 2-3 and 3-4 when smoothly shifting in Eco mode. The idea is to optimize the box for smooth and soft shifting while at the same time being fast and responsive.