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Author Topic: The 5120 hack - Running up to 5bar absolute pressure on ME7.x  (Read 296685 times)
britishturbo
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« Reply #105 on: February 03, 2013, 09:11:11 PM »

Honestly, I don't see the need to do anything but M (as nearly everyone can use either that, or an L) and maybe the euro-equivalent of the M-box (as in a flash that can be used by the majority of those that don't live in NA)

Sounds good.
So what is the most common Euro 2.7 Box?
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britishturbo
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« Reply #106 on: February 03, 2013, 10:56:33 PM »

Here's a quick plot of Actual vs Required boost:



The log for the run is attached as well.
There was still a little noise on the maf in this file, I'm going to run a shielded cable tomorrow.
Also I need to smooth out the KFZW file as well, I wasn't hitting the places in the table before that I am now that things aren't underscaled...
Was also very rich here as well.
I'll have some new fresh better tuned logs tomorrow.
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jibberjive
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« Reply #107 on: February 04, 2013, 02:02:15 AM »

Just catching up on this thread, and thought I'd repost a post I made on AZ regarding the AEM sensor referenced a couple of pages back.

For those who don't care about factory fit Summit Racing gas an AEM 5 bar sensor for $63.

If you go with that AEM style sensor, I recommend the stainless one over the brass one (though it is twice the cost), as it's got an accuracy of +/- 0.5% rather than +/- 3% for the brass. 

http://www.aemelectronics.com/5-bar-75-psia-map-stainless-steel-sensor-kit-655

Ultimate accuracy doesn't always matter, but when the scale is so large at 5bar (and people are likely to really only read up to less than 4 bar MAX on their S4), that added accuracy can add some meaningful resolution to the MAP readings.  The stainless version's accuracy equates to +/- 0.36 psi, and the brass version equates to +/- 2.175 psi.  A potential 4+ psi swing of inaccuracy is not insignificant when people are looking at values like 20 psi.  If you decide to go that route, let me know and I can hook you up on price with that sensor with my business accounts (though it looks like you've already got your solution).


My PM box got one message, a very humble one from someone who in my opinion threw down more than others in direct relation to my personal car.  I felt compelled to toss him some R&D funds. 
Thanks for the money Jared Grin

j/k

Real quick, who has what 2.7 boxes here so I know what other boxes to worry about making an xdf for?
I know M Box... I also have G Box pretty much done.
Should I do A box as well?

I agree with the above, there's no point in worrying about any additional North American xdf's other than the M-box.

So what is the most common Euro 2.7 Box?

As for the euro boxes, my vote (as usual Grin) goes for the K-box.
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mightemouce
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« Reply #108 on: February 04, 2013, 07:45:33 AM »

Anyone have any input on using a gm 4 bar map sensor?

http://www.xenocron.com/4-bar-map-sensor-gm-style-p-494.html
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britishturbo
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« Reply #109 on: February 04, 2013, 07:55:50 AM »

Anyone have any input on using a gm 4 bar map sensor?

http://www.xenocron.com/4-bar-map-sensor-gm-style-p-494.html

That will work perfectly, you just won't be able to install it "as oem"
But as far as functionality it will be fine.
The GM sensors have the same scales that I've seen as VAG / Motorola / Freescale sensors.
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britishturbo
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« Reply #110 on: February 04, 2013, 07:57:45 AM »

Sweet.

Quick question: IF I installed the 4bar map and only changed the relevant translation constants/tables for V to mbar conversion, I will be ok driving around prior to taking plunge into real conversion?

You might throw some codes unless you get the scales just right.

I mistakenly flashed a non 5120 file this morning and got every code imaginable for MAP sensor when it didn't see the right response :-P
Only took me about 50 feet of driving to realize lol.
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britishturbo
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« Reply #111 on: February 04, 2013, 07:59:21 AM »

If you go with that AEM style sensor, I recommend the stainless one over the brass one (though it is twice the cost), as it's got an accuracy of +/- 0.5% rather than +/- 3% for the brass. 

http://www.aemelectronics.com/5-bar-75-psia-map-stainless-steel-sensor-kit-655

Ultimate accuracy doesn't always matter, but when the scale is so large at 5bar (and people are likely to really only read up to less than 4 bar MAX on their S4), that added accuracy can add some meaningful resolution to the MAP readings.  The stainless version's accuracy equates to +/- 0.36 psi, and the brass version equates to +/- 2.175 psi.  A potential 4+ psi swing of inaccuracy is not insignificant when people are looking at values like 20 psi.  If you decide to go that route, let me know and I can hook you up on price with that sensor with my business accounts (though it looks like you've already got your solution).

Are you sure this isn't just AEM sales BS?
I don't think I've seen any pressure sensor elements that have that bad an accuracy... I may be wrong though lol.
In general though I don't trust AEM hardware lol.
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julex
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« Reply #112 on: February 04, 2013, 08:59:27 AM »

Inaccuracy meaning? Permanently skewed towards one end or at the same exact pressure the sensors gives constantly changing readings? First one is irrelevant, second is a game breaker.
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britishturbo
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« Reply #113 on: February 04, 2013, 10:34:26 AM »

Inaccuracy meaning? Permanently skewed towards one end or at the same exact pressure the sensors gives constantly changing readings? First one is irrelevant, second is a game breaker.

This is very true... I might get one of these just to compare to the freescale sensor.
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britishturbo
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« Reply #114 on: February 04, 2013, 10:44:35 AM »

A little Google search finds lots of people agreeing with jibberjive.
Seems the brass sensors are only good for measuring fluid pressures where you don't care about accuracy.
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prj
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« Reply #115 on: February 04, 2013, 11:04:34 AM »

You are correct about not running the N249... just a Tial Q50 BOV dumping to atmosphere.
Have fun with your mass-flow setup then.
BOV's are crap. They are either open at idle, or not soon enough.
A recirc valve can have a soft spring and be open at idle without any ill effects.
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britishturbo
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« Reply #116 on: February 04, 2013, 11:09:41 AM »

Have fun with your mass-flow setup then.
BOV's are crap. They are either open at idle, or not soon enough.
A recirc valve can have a soft spring and be open at idle without any ill effects.

Actually other than the spike seen there the BOV is working great. No problems at all.
The original spring I had though was too soft and open at idle, so I went up to the next spring.
I think "crap" is a little over the top for a description of a BOV... in Speed Density or Blow Through MAF they have been shown to work just fine.
I guess we will just have to agree to disagree here ;-)

The spike is also not as long in duration as that log suggests, the output is smoothed in the logs that the picture was from. The raw ME7logger output doesn't look the same.
And as I already mentioned there is no compressor surge that is audible.
The spike is more than likely a result of the pure air volume the turbo is putting out at that time... Even a recirculating dump valve would have a hard time dumping that pressure and volume any quicker.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2013, 11:15:58 AM by britishturbo » Logged
Bische
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« Reply #117 on: February 04, 2013, 12:21:43 PM »

Snow Trooper: Thanks for your offer, but I do not want money for any of this.

I have taken and learned alot from this forum + made some very good contacts, I am just glad to be able to contribute back to the forum. I do not take full credit for making this happen, I would not be able to make it happen without the help of the others mentioned.

And as mentioned, there is still more work to it. The files I have posted is only a summarize of what I am currently running, with no known to me side effects, to show that this is possible to execute. I am also currently running the 4bar TDI sensor mentioned a few pages back now, once I manage to get good enough traction I will post up a graph of 24psi+ actual boost control.

Im glad to see more people working on this, hopefully getting this 100% ironed out and possibly spot more needed changes for different SW versions.
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prj
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« Reply #118 on: February 04, 2013, 12:50:05 PM »

Even a recirculating dump valve would have a hard time dumping that pressure and volume any quicker.
No. You just use a valve that is big enough, and these issues do not happen.

It's really the basics. You can disagree all you want, fact is that you need a stronger spring to keep it shut on idle or suck in unfiltered air.
Stronger spring - does not open soon enough when it should be.

Less efficiency, harder on the turbo, and makes MAF readings go all over the place. You should have the N249 actuating your BOV, instead of removing it.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2013, 12:53:46 PM by prj » Logged

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phila_dot
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« Reply #119 on: February 06, 2013, 09:32:49 AM »

I am working on a 100% rescale, but the currently posted information appears to be enough to get by at least short term.

I expect to be done in the next week or two depending on how much time I get to work on it.

The spreadsheet posted by Nyet is also a great resource for anyone that wants to get a head start.
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