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Author Topic: (pics) comparing bins, still not seeing this clearly. (boost)  (Read 13104 times)
donniedark0
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Im taking all this tuning stuff, step by step, and I am trying to do as much research as I can but there is just some things that dont make sense or add up. So I will begin threads specifically on what I am doing, and keep in mind, im doing this step by step so I dont mess anything up. Ive reread the boost aspects of the s4wiki and still a little confused.

Experience level: bench flashing success, homemade benchflashing harness, bootmode w/galletto + ground pins, successful galleto flash. I also have the checksum plugin for tunerpro. Thats as far as my experience goes.

Now to the good stuff......

I love the stg2 boschmaf 91 nls tune. But I want to learn why and how certain aspects of the tune can be changed, rather then just flashing it and not learning it.

So I took the.........
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here ya go. I changed the boost to max at 19psi and drops to 13psi by redline. launch control is set to 3500rpm. timing is the same as my other files and is safe for 91oct. enjoy.
* 8D0907551M_nolift-boschmaf-stage2+91oct_V3.bin

and also.........

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Your file, but for 93 oct & boost spike to 22.

Attached.

*disclamer, nobody on here is responsible for blowing turbos with this*
* 8D0907551M_boschmaf-stage2+93.bin

and I am trying to compare them to see exactly where and how the boost was tuned to 22 rather than 19. Once I can learn that, then I will look into the differences and how he was so easily able to change from 91 to 93.

I will try to do the math myself once I learn exactly where to mess with the tune.

All in all, I would like this tune to have max boost of 19psi taper to 13 on 93 oct and all the rest of the goodies.

Thanks.

(pics below)
http://gyazo.com/3ab907d4b61fb87571d6509e071a4f28
http://gyazo.com/a8b04873d0ad15170643a22d826107a7






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donniedark0
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« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2013, 10:45:28 PM »

I am in the right table correct? KFMIRL table?

I also found the information below to be very useful, cause I can do the math once I get my bearings, but not sure exactly where to input the numbers?

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Boost at WOT follows ldrxn. To find out psi from ldrxn:

LDXRXN*10+300

so if ldrxn is 192:

192*10=1920+300=2220. That number is in millibars.

2220mb=2.2bar=31.9psi (absolute). To determine manifold pressure you subtract the BAR (barometric pressure) of your area (roughly 14.5psi @ sealevel).

31.9psi-14.5psi=17.4psi of boost pressure.

In order for the values in the compare bin to make any sense at all it has to be not only the same VAG number, but also the same software revision.
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k0mpresd
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« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2013, 10:46:21 PM »

ldrxn usually.
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ddillenger
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« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2013, 11:22:08 PM »

WOT boost will follow LDRXN. Pressure reading is derived from the above formula. Just open your bin, and browse to LDRXN. I'm glad you found my post helpful. It's not that hard once you get a handle on it.
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donniedark0
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« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2013, 11:54:20 PM »

ok great. So I changed these values in the LDRXN_1_A (thats what my ldrxn is named). I used the 19psi tune as a reference and just copied from that ldrxn_1_a to this 22psi tune ldrxn.

Was this done properly? Now just correct checksums? or is there another step to correct the WOT max boost?

appreciate patience.


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ddillenger
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« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2013, 12:14:01 AM »

That profile will peak (flatline) @ 18ish with a taper to around 11psi. I prefer not to flatline ldrxn, but rather smoothly taper.

To get a better handle on this, try looking at the data as a graph rather than a table. That feature is right next to the SAVE and CLOSE icons (it's a squiggly line). Much better for comparisons sake.

BTW-the difference between 93 and 91 octane files is mainly timing. KFZW/KFZW2 (2 is timing during cam changeover).

« Last Edit: March 05, 2013, 12:23:13 AM by ddillenger » Logged

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donniedark0
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« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2013, 12:18:08 AM »

That profile will peak (flatline) @ 18ish with a taper to around 11psi. I prefer not to flatline ldrxn, but rather smoothly taper.

ahhhh I see. As long as im on the right page. Smiley
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adeyspec
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« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2013, 01:13:42 AM »

out of interest why is it better to taper the boost back down? on other cars (non vag) i used to just aim for a solid boost level and try to make it hold till the redline? sorry if its a simple already covered topic
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airtite
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« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2013, 01:16:01 AM »

at higher rpm the smaller turbos are running outside of there efficiency range and thus just blowing hot air more than anything else
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ddillenger
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« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2013, 01:17:14 AM »

k03's/k04's aren't capable of maintaining that level of boost to redline. Tapering is done out of necessity. Not necessarily because the air is superheated, but rather that they just can't move that volume.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2013, 01:38:37 AM by ddillenger » Logged

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adeyspec
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« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2013, 01:28:38 AM »

ahh nice one, cheers for that. i take it if it doesnt meet required boost as your trying to push them hard it will throw a wobbly?
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ddillenger
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« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2013, 01:33:42 AM »

You'll get a boost deviation DTC if actual can't meet requested. You can change the threshold for deviation detection (KFDLULS IIRC), but that doesn't do much other than preventing a DTC. Your turbo's are still being overworked, and can't do what's being asked, but the ecu just won't care.
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airtite
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« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2013, 01:43:56 AM »

since this has been posted in answer to one of my questions before  Wink

http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Tuning#Positive_deviation
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ddillenger
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« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2013, 01:45:51 AM »

since this has been posted in answer to one of my questions before  Wink

http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Tuning#Positive_deviation

I get something new out of the wiki every time I read it.
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phila_dot
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« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2013, 07:35:08 AM »

WOT boost will follow LDRXN. Pressure reading is derived from the above formula. Just open your bin, and browse to LDRXN. I'm glad you found my post helpful. It's not that hard once you get a handle on it.

LDRXN is max desired load by RPM and outputs rlmx_w. This can be further limited by other maps (KFLDHBN, LDPBN, etc...) through %LDRLMX. Finally, rlmax_w is output from %LDRLMX and is the max desired load cap for the output from KFMIRL.

rlsol_w (desired load) will be the lower value of the two, rlmax_w or the output of KFMIRL. Therefore, rlsol_w will only equal rlmx_w if KFMIRL is being capped by rlmax_w (KFMIRL is requesting more load at a given RPM and torque request than rlmax_w) and the stars have aligned and rlmx_w is not being limited at all throughout %LDRLMX. IMO the goal is to tune the maps in %LDRLMX so that they don't intervene during normal/good conditions, but are not completely disabled by raising them too high, so that they can intervene as designed when conditions change. This will give rlmax_w = rlmx_w under good conditions. Then tune KFMIRL as desired but should be just greater than rlmax_w at WOT in good conditions.

Don't put too much stock in that formula for converting load to boost. It is a decent reference, but that is it.
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