NefMoto

Hi

Is there a way to get an ignition cut rev limiter instead of the Original (fuel cut?) on My me7 1,8T? I can't find anything on the Internet or Forum...

Best regards

Coil dwell time. 

KFSZT and/or FSZTM?

According to http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=445.msg31139#msg31139 neither is used in ME7 (CW_FUBND=0)

Might need to do some more digging.

Never thought about using that for a rev limiter outside of AL/NLS

Would be absolutely insane to do it w/o also cutting fuel at redline.

KFTSRL and KFSZT
need both map

Mhmm.  I've shifted the last column back basically and set the RPM to -50 of my limit.  Then set dwell to 0 at my limit.  Limiter bash all the things. 

Don't forget FTOMN.

Mhmm.  Mine's set to 0 anyway because AL.

well
i was trying today this stuff

setting KFTSRL & KFSZT last column to 0
and previous column to stock values
last 5000, previous 5450
no sense, engine running up to NMAX = 6200
okay
after that i change FTOMN to 0
fuse blown after 200m cruise (<3000 rpm)

and most interesting thing to me, in code KFSZT is called only if nmot_w < 1770h (1500rpm)
its a hard asm value, not a map
ive check other software when i have a time
* 06A906032DR file btw

now what is a dwell time? is it charhe time or time between charges (this explains why 0 value blowns a fuse)

Interesting topic. So does it work with the mentioned maps?

BTW I will definitely add a section to the wiki if somebody provides a working method, especially in regards to the safety of setting FTOMN to 0.

Thanks to all here that are participating.

I'll go over my file when I get home, but mine definitely works.  Was using today. :) 

I'm only ask cause I would consider testing it, but it's a Volvo and only way is asm, so I'm interested if these maps do the trick so then I can start to define them.

I also assumed ASM was required for ignition cut to work (in particular, so zeroing FTOMN didn't have side effects).

So to make it clear for me and other memebers if you set FTMON=0 and make the changes to the KFTSRL & KFSZT like i have make in the picture i attach is all we need ??

(https://s14.postimg.org/fmbbus7hp/hardcutme7_5.png) (https://postimg.org/image/fmbbus7hp/)

No.  Read the axis, you've set dwell to 0 at 18 volts and 7k.  Simialrly, will you hit more than 165% load at 7k?  What is your limiter?

I'll post mine when I get home.

MY rev limiter is set at 7000rpm thats why i change the last column axis to 6960...

Remember interpolation..

so make sure it is a real step function (or as close to it as possible)?

5999.9 non zero
6000.0 zero?

Is that the trick i've been missing?

Better know ???

Mine is a step of 50 rpm, but I might try closer.  It doesn't bounce as much as I'd like.   

I think it should help to change DNMAXH from 200rpm to 50rpm .

Could you post a video with result?

Well, if you really want no interpolation, you should make the axis value one apart (in unscaled values).

Well yeah; you don't want interpolation because you want dwell to slam to 0 so no spark?

Going to try these tomorrow.  :)  It's hard to get a video and limiter bash in 2nd and hold the wheel.

What is the minimum step on the rpm axis?

Usually is 40 for 8-bit values. Looks like it's 40 here as well.

In case it wasn't clear, I still don't think a spark only cut limiter is a good idea. For those reading this thread that are noobs, DO NOT attempt, you are risking serious valvetrain (or worse) damage.

Mhmm.  That said, my stock head was holding this abuse plus NLS/AL every few days for 3 years.  Stock turbo too.  No damage to fins, no lack of boost, no damaged valves when I pulled the head.  People worry a lot; but if you can fix it, why not?

This can be stickied.  Those settings work pretty damn well.  I don't have a video, it's too hard to hold onto a FWD spin in 2nd in the wet. 

Someone else can try it and LMK. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8pFU-oZ3Pk&feature=youtu.be

Have a video. :)

Sounds legit!

I like this one. Lol. Looks like all fucking hell's breaking loose.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IW5COieCR88

ok i got it. the problem was e_lm active because of mafless
https://youtu.be/NujUfLReBAI

KFTSRL, NMAX

KFSZT irrelevant here. its hardcoded in asm to be used only below 1500 rpm
i`ll try different values later

Decent. :) I need to learn how to IDA properly.

Cool stuff, this makes a burnout so much more interesting  ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Khdv8bsN9fI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pO99FeIYFk

Did you place both NMAX and NMAXOG above the 0 dwell rpm?

+ 50rpm for me

also we should play with KFZWMN / KFZWOP areas i think

https://youtu.be/0Jn13D0iWeo  ;D
Pops really good. Poor valvetrain  :)

You need to teach me how to IDA! :)

first day into hard limiter,and she gives you this look..

Yeah this'll do that to a old rusty stock exhaust, and it'll melt/damage your cat :)
use it as a good excuse to get at proper stainless system ;)

Hehehe lol :)

hey everyone,

Trying to get hard limiter working but i cant seem to find and xdf file with proper locations to make adjustments. I have 8e0909518f ecu. I cant find kfszt and kftsrl if just all 0. Please help much appreciated, this forum is amazing already got my boost where I want it and cars running great just need some pop pop bang bang  ;D.

thx

I dont know which SW you have, but if you have 1037363670 - your addresses are the following:
FTOMN @ 0x1A7BE, size 1x1, 8bit, factor 0,1*eprom
KFSZT  @ 0x1A892, size 8x8, 8bit, factor 0,1*eprom
KFTSRL @ 0x1A8E7, size 10x9, 8bit, factor 0,1*eprom

Attached a few screenshots and a .csv with map-data.

thx for reply not sure how i would know sw. But i'm pretty sure ftmon for me is at 1a775 it shows 5. One xdf file i have shows at 1b2ac which is incorrect and where you said i think is incorrect also as it show up 0.

It would help to upload your file..

Good evening guys !!!
I set my limiter to 7100 rpms, but the cut comes at 5800 rpms.
Could anyone give a hint how fasso it limit to 7100 rpms?
In this bin I have active AL / NLS.
Very grateful for any help.

Ops! Xdf wrong.
I have set up the rpms columns of kftsrl as indicated in wik and here too. Best column kftsrl at 7100 and penutima at 7060rpm.
sorry.

Same result.
Limiting to 5800 rpms.
How to reach 7100 rpms?
What am I leaving behind ??

What is NMAXOG set to?
Can you upload a screenshot of your new setup?

Here is the capture screen.
a question.
I have not changed the axes of the kfzw maps.
Will this be my mistake?
In doubt, I will change everyone and see the result.
Thank you very much for your attention.

What about KFSZT?

Had changed in another file with the same configuration of the kftsrl axes and with the whole column in 0.
But even so the cut came at 5800.
As in wik did not mention about kfszt I decided to leave original for a test.
When the first or second gear pulls off the bursts !!
More in a higher gear limits to the 5800.notei q is tied past the 5000 rpm. strange behavior.
It would not be the case to interpolate the kftsrl axis with a difference smaller than 4000 rpms to 7060 rpms.
Type per line of 6000 rpms in place of 4000 rpms?
I'm going to test that tomorrow.
 thank you

I'm going to take a test with that.

Same result.

Try setting fuel cut 100-200 RPM higher than spark cut :)

You want to cut spark before you cut fuel.

Lift your NMAX.

Read the maps you're editing and don't just throw numbers in because someone else did the same thing.  Try and understand what you're attempting to do.

You've lifted error detection to 7500 for no reason.

I raised nmaxf 400 rpm to more than nmax. It was the difference between nmax 6800 and nmaxf 7100. I did it because in the original bin it was at 7100 which would be my new nmax. So I added another 400 rpm to nmaxf.
I have 7100 rpm in the soft limiter. I wanted to have that same 7100 rpm with hard limiter.
I did a nmax test at 7300 rpm. More so cut at 5800 rpm.

Thank you for the tip

Read the FR.

NMAX is the soft limiter (fuel cut).

The concept is entirely based around that.  Cut spark before fuel. 

No, it depends on the ECU.

Not sure how you got this far without reading this:

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=11664.msg97574#msg97574

and this:

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=445.45

ZUESZ in the Function Sheet ME7.3 as an idea;

1. Introduction:
Sufficient ignition energy must be made available in order that the sparking plug can ignite the mixture. This is realized by
closing the primary circuit of the ignition coil in good time so that the coil can charge up sufficiently.
On the other hand, the closing time shall not be too long as this can otherwise lead to the ignition output stage overheating
(particularly critical for internal output stages).
After closing, the primary current i increases exponentially with time. The period of time from the primary circuit closing to
opening again (sparking) is referred to as the dwell time.
The energy stored in the magnetic field is given by :
W = 1/2 * L * iˆ2 (L: inductance, i: current flowing at the point in time that the primary circuit opens)
2. Calculation of the dwell time:
The dwell time szout is calculated from a map that depends on the speed and battery voltage, corrected by a factor depending on the
engine temperature (from characteristic FSZTM).
3. Dependency of the dwell time:
ub: The primary current i flows through the primary winding of the ignition coil. This is determined by the battery voltage ub
and the resistance of the coil.
nmot: Above an engine-speed threshold, the dwell time is computed as a dwell angle and output at an angle level.
Thus a speed-dependent lead by the dynamics is required here so that a sufficiently long dwell time is still given even
in the event of maximum speed dynamics. The dynamics lead is taken into account in the map KFSZT.
The dynamics lead required is lower at higher engine speeds.
No dynamics lead is necessary in the lower engine-speed range (dwell time output).
It can also be meaningful to have a shorter dwell time at higher speeds for thermal reasons.
tmot: The ignition coil temperature changes with the engine temperature.

I like the visual side too! Good for timing/fuel understanding etc;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdW1t8r8qYc

In kfszt.

Make rpm axis 7000, 7050(change depending on your limiters etc)

Put 0 dwell in 7050rpm row

Works in older me

Mhmmmmm.

It's all just relative - if Bosch have a known quantity, for example the bit at the beginning here that states 2ms, then you have a set known quantity, you can then work from that with various offsets and variables based on this known figure and elaborate on the variables to your hearts content and that's all Bosch do, continue to break it down and as such evolve the systems as a further breakdown of known/set figures. It's just maths and logic, that's all an ecu can do, I've highlighted some bits in the download file to give you an idea in red; the "offset", "function off", "gradient" type of bits;

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=10419.0title=

No charge time No spark. Works amazing on old z20lets ::)

I have had good luck with just using KFTSRL.  Never had to touch KFSZT but I suppose I will give it a try now after reading up on it.

D

Exactly what I did, and it's fun as hell  ;D
But with cat in place it'll take some serious damage.
Decat and you'll be spitting flames all day and won't have to worry
about the cat melting and plugging up the exhaust :)

I've been digging out and rebuilding some files lately and uploaded some ignition patent info if it helps on this, various years I think; makes it easier for me to find!  ;)

https://app.box.com/s/7uqaix0y9c9z59g7722dr7z54q8f5k4u

https://app.box.com/s/4wt0gxgvyu3bklxa1g0fxopummwnogc3

https://app.box.com/s/08g950lz8gg9o1w01hlt7rj01wo0zhj9

https://app.box.com/s/kjw5zi30k4bbbm2yawpcdigl9p8rwbtv

https://app.box.com/s/lgvp59z16vrr90l2qbbfodm91mep6h9s

https://app.box.com/s/7j1jcahdo4yvxoz5e5n52begxhejz16z

https://app.box.com/s/hxj7kqpfiwqp7q8n7delntx7nlcxn97n

https://app.box.com/s/xgs2vl4bun9ldvl3gscfsijgig4gpjgk

https://app.box.com/s/lr5yx98l0j8az3xb1d94mgik2t7s2p6t

https://app.box.com/s/mgalngtwdggjwj9ciy08yachlvtz4zvw

On wot acceleration or part throttle?
Could be coils, could also be plugs themselves.

Do you have any logs of it happening?

I don't think that 0 dwell time is the culprit.
Sounds more like misfire.
Anyway it's easier to pinpoint with logs :)

Misfires Or piss poor kfmirl and kfmiop tables

Yeah, forgot to ask what changes you made to IRL and IOP?

in short I have a rev limiter as I wanted!
my error was in the xdf axis, I just modified the rpm values in the xdf parameters.
beginner.
I appreciate your attention!
here is a video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIZ65StULMc&feature=youtu.be

and my configuration.

Hello all,

Can anyone please help me find FTOMN in this map?

thank you

1A2DC

thank you its function only when car stay on brake what map i must change for function till ride?

Hello guys, first of all, thank you for your help !!!

I'd like to know something.

I have an golf MK2 1.8T swapped, no speed sensor (mk2 cluster), no brake or clutch sensor either to the ecu

Do you think this will affect the hard cut rev limiter operation ?

I'm asking because I tried and it kinda worked, but only randomly. I decided to cycle igntion and after that car wouldn't start anymore. Scanned for faults, nothing unusual (evap sai cat o2...), cleared and still no start. After that, I flashed back the ori file and it started right away.

Thank you.

Checksums?  All those things don't work.

Fit a brake and clutch switch.

Do not have the 2nd last RPM column set to 0. It'll cause the ECU to interpolate between the 3rd last and 2nd. That means as you progress thru the RPMs from 3rd to 2nd, it'll start to break up. You want to set the 2nd last column to stock and have the last one only 40rpm apart with 0.

Hello, thank you for your input guys.

@adam- for this to work, I must have a brake and clutch sensor or not ? I know for a fact that AL & NLS won't work because the ecu doesn't get the speed information.

@gman86 attached to this post is a screenshot of the settings i used.

With these, I had a "normal" (as opposed to the oem soft one) rev limiter but no bangs. After driving the car for a little while it dies, and impossible to start it again until i flash the old ori file or any other one for that matter...

Noob question now.... Doubting myself....

Can I just change the RPM on the axis like this?

Read two answers above yours.

I feel stupid now  :P, all makes sense!

Hey guys,

i want to test the limiter in this A6 2.7T..
Are these settings okay?

Regards

I did the same thing with an ME1.5.5, even though it doesn't equip FTOMN. It worked fine. Nice big flames when setting KFZW to -40° at the last rpm axis.

No, change the axis.

Oh okay i see it.. how to change the 5000 rpm to 5960 ?

Thank you

Of course. It doesn't work without changing the last KFZW axis.

@mj12345

In WinOLS, select the axis value you want to change and hit enter. This will change the axis value from the hexdump. This won't work if you defined the axes for yourself  ;) ;D

I have change the axis in tuner pro..

is it so okay?
The limiter is set down to 6000 rpm.

 ;)

Should work like that, yes.

Could someone help me find and define KFTSRL so i can add it to my xdf file please. i would like to limiter bash for a bit of fun lol

Here you go, should be everything you need.

Thank you

Sent from my GT-I9195 using Tapatalk

Hi i'm looking for kfszt on 1ml906032a v 0001 can anybody help me??

SOme analysis
NMAX- soft limiter when fuel cut come's in
NMAXF- rpm treshold for DTC
DNMAXH- This is the RPM above rev limit when the fuel cut comes on
If NMAX is soft limiter (at that RPM engine will cut fuel), then what is DNMAX,why this map stand's for(to cut fuel twice :D) ??

In this settings dwell time on 6000 rpm is set to 0.
So at 6000 RPM ECU will cut spark, than when RPM drop to 5960, will ignite again.

I don't have car no more to test all this, so any help I appreciate  ;)

Could you share how did you manage to achive that? What's the map ID? Thanks.

Did you look at the FR? One glance will answer that question

I forget that... But now when I looked, the NMAX is not fuel cut. That is RPM boundry above the ECU try to lover down RPM by reducing fuel,load, throotle plate etc.

DNMAX should be for hysteresis purposes.

(D) = delta?

You dont switch exactly at value but you switch off at (value + hysteresis) and switch on at value.

This is better understandable for a digital output which controls a relay when you for example monitor temperature and enable a fan to cool,
you dont want to switch on >= 100 degrees and off < 100 degrees as you might get in really nasty loop at exactly 100 degrees constantly turning of and on very fast.

I know what ia hysteressis, only quesstion was what it shout down in ECU, but all are answers are in FR  ;)

I applied what was written here

how u fix the problem,i also when dissconect the MAF the ignition cut stop working,how to fix this?

Don't fucking disconnect your MAF. Limp mode alpha-n is there to get you home, not run 10 sec 1/4 miles.

:D haha ,car will be for racing purpose and i will have to map it with dissconected MAF,becouse it go down verry easy when car have big turbo...

Ridiculous. Do you want a running car or not? There is no reason for your MAF to "go down", whatever that means.

Hello Everyone.

Theres a friends Mk4 R32 that he wants me to implement Sparkcut on.
I have done this on my own 032TL.

But I cant seem to find the correct conversion (or address) for RPM axis on KFSZT

Other settings:
FTOMN = 0.2
KFTSRL last rpm row stepped and Zero'ed
DNMAXH = 50rpm

Attached is a screenshot of KFSZT, Address and Conversion.
Please help me understand if its the Address or the Conversion that I am not getting.

Thanks gents.

What is the full ECU ID?

Oh sorry didnt include that.

022906032CP 0001

It's possible to implement it with soft limiter about 4k-5k rpms?

I check this version and works fine, maybe this can work with lower rpm (NMAX - 4500? NMAXOG - 6800) limit below some km/s (VNMX)?

Can somebody help me with this in med 9.1 8P0907115  2.0 TFSI ?

I dont have KFSZT.  ::)

Is other solution to add some bangs in this ECU on upper rev limitter ?

KFSZT doesn't exist in MED9. You're looking for KFTSRL

I've edited KFTSRL and its working i have hard revlimitter but i don't have bangs with it. Fire and bangs shows up only with my pops&bangs ;)

https://photos.app.goo.gl/aNmTiceWRJnbnoPU8

I did it on my 2.5t volvo, I only had to change the KFSZT map. Thanks for the help everyone :D
https://youtu.be/o_jdHK2Z2rk