AudiA4_20T
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« Reply #45 on: August 15, 2011, 10:59:32 AM »
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Quick question, when you guys are modifying these fields, does it set readiness to pass automatically? They have come out with some new equipment in the tri-state area that can detect if a field has been set to pass. My guess is that it checks for readiness=OK and then resets to make sure that PASSED doesn't automatically come back. If it does, it fails that field.
Would these directions get you around that or would the machine have the upper hand?
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nyet
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« Reply #46 on: August 15, 2011, 11:38:17 AM »
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Quick question, when you guys are modifying these fields, does it set readiness to pass automatically? They have come out with some new equipment in the tri-state area that can detect if a field has been set to pass. My guess is that it checks for readiness=OK and then resets to make sure that PASSED doesn't automatically come back. If it does, it fails that field.
Would these directions get you around that or would the machine have the upper hand?
It would be safest to assume that you can detect these changes. I'd suggest trying to get access to the equipment you are talking about to test it. In theory, it is definitely possible to detect that the fields have been modified to always set readiness. However, the rear O2 delete is only one part of the O2 readiness. The primaries still have to be run through the readiness process to go from untested to "PASS". |
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Gonzo
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« Reply #47 on: August 19, 2011, 12:26:13 PM »
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I have stated a million times that this isn't real readiness. All you are doing is disabling emission components and setting them as not supported.
When you go to an inspection station they will read not supported for Oxygen Sensor, SAI, and EVAP and it will run it against the database of vehicle it has. When it does that and it sees that your car came with all those from factory, it fails you. Some states even flag your VIN.
Although ILLEGAL (federal offense to tamper with emissions equipment), to get around these emissions check you can either A. leave O2 sensor plugged in with a spacer or B. still leave them in and change thresholds. I don't frown upon nor condone any of these options. Just throwing them out there for educational purposes.
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phila_dot
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« Reply #48 on: August 19, 2011, 01:06:30 PM »
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I have stated a million times that this isn't real readiness. All you are doing is disabling emission components and setting them as not supported.
When you go to an inspection station they will read not supported for Oxygen Sensor, SAI, and EVAP and it will run it against the database of vehicle it has. When it does that and it sees that your car came with all those from factory, it fails you. Some states even flag your VIN.
Although ILLEGAL (federal offense to tamper with emissions equipment), to get around these emissions check you can either A. leave O2 sensor plugged in with a spacer or B. still leave them in and change thresholds. I don't frown upon nor condone any of these options. Just throwing them out there for educational purposes.
The only time that I see this being an issue is when the entire function is disabled. If the changes do not disable the test itself and only disable creation of the error class, then I don't see how this can be detected. I believe that this can be done without modifying the code or adjusting the thresholds. A simple test would be to clear codes and run the readiness checks with VCDS. If a readiness bit is not reset initially or an individual test is automatically set to "OK", then we will need to come up with an alternate way to defeat that test. When I looked into changing thresholds, it looked like this would have collateral affects. Gonzo, in your past replies, you made it sound like there was some mystery smog test that we were unaware of. You never presented anything concrete or any possible solutions. |
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Gonzo
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« Reply #49 on: August 19, 2011, 03:01:17 PM »
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If you disable the error class for the plug and the ECU decides to run the test for readiness and the emissions equipment is not there, will it set readiness? No.
Granted I haven't had time to do more testing but the only way to fool emissions is to lower thresholds. Once I get my project car running I'll do intensive testing.
Anyways, open up VCDS and go to the OBD-II module and scan for readiness that way and show me what it says. If any of your deleted emissions equipment says "ready" then you will be my freakin hero <3. Seriously.
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Gonzo
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« Reply #50 on: August 19, 2011, 03:13:09 PM »
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http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/vi/misc/faq/faq_obdii.htm#SystemsCheckedNJ has the same rule regarding readiness. Only 1 monitor may be not ready or not supported for cars 2001-> Texas people may get away with setting monitors to not supported but I know the NJ people do not get away with it unless they go to a private inspection station.
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phila_dot
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« Reply #51 on: August 19, 2011, 05:43:51 PM »
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If you disable the error class for the plug and the ECU decides to run the test for readiness and the emissions equipment is not there, will it set readiness? No.
Granted I haven't had time to do more testing but the only way to fool emissions is to lower thresholds. Once I get my project car running I'll do intensive testing.
Anyways, open up VCDS and go to the OBD-II module and scan for readiness that way and show me what it says. If any of your deleted emissions equipment says "ready" then you will be my freakin hero <3. Seriously.
If the error class is coded out it will show passed. The test will run, no errors will be found, and the bit will be set to zero. Do you know of something being checked other than the readiness byte? The bits of the readiness byte only have two states, passed (0) and failed/incomplete(1). There is no unsuppprted. The only way to check if a feature is unsupported would be to clear codes and run the tests individually. If the test is passed without testing then the assumption would be that it is unsupported. The readiness byte is displayed in the center of of the display on the readiness screen. In the picture below all bits are zero as all tests are passed.  In this picture, two bits are set to one and as a result two test are failed/incomplete.  I will try to check the OBDII module, but I am almost positive it reads this byte as well. |
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« Last Edit: August 19, 2011, 05:48:02 PM by phila_dot »
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Gonzo
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« Reply #52 on: August 19, 2011, 06:41:10 PM »
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Check the OBDII module and let me know. Anybody can get "readiness" on VCDS but it doesn't fool inspection.
Someone on this forum sent me NOP code that sets "readiness" on VCDS but what it really does is stop 'evsup1' from initializing. It effectively kills all supported monitors.
Edit: The code still shows all monitors as not supported on OBD-II mode so nothing innovative.
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« Last Edit: August 19, 2011, 07:03:50 PM by Gonzo »
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phila_dot
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« Reply #53 on: August 20, 2011, 11:39:17 AM »
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Check the OBDII module and let me know. Anybody can get "readiness" on VCDS but it doesn't fool inspection.
Someone on this forum sent me NOP code that sets "readiness" on VCDS but what it really does is stop 'evsup1' from initializing. It effectively kills all supported monitors.
Edit: The code still shows all monitors as not supported on OBD-II mode so nothing innovative.
Now that sounds like it would raise serious red flags. All readiness tests would be skipped. Apparently the OBDII module is not available in 409.1 or VCDS-Lite. Maybe Nyet or Nehalem can give it a shot. |
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s5fourdoor
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« Reply #54 on: August 20, 2011, 12:09:18 PM »
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i've been following and would gladly test, but i don't seem to follow your proposal. what must be done to test this? be clear please, i'm dumb.
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phila_dot
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« Reply #55 on: August 20, 2011, 12:29:03 PM »
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i've been following and would gladly test, but i don't seem to follow your proposal. what must be done to test this? be clear please, i'm dumb.
Instead of checking readiness the normal way (select control module, engine, readiness), select ODBII from the initial screen and select readiness. Post your results. |
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nyet
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« Reply #56 on: August 20, 2011, 09:23:16 PM »
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I haven't tried the OBDII thing, but I'm LOOKING at my latest smog cert, and it shows all readiness codes as "PASSED".
YMMV, of course. Your particular smog testing center my do something different than mine, etc. etc.
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phila_dot
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« Reply #57 on: August 20, 2011, 10:17:15 PM »
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I haven't tried the OBDII thing, but I'm LOOKING at my latest smog cert, and it shows all readiness codes as "PASSED".
YMMV, of course. Your particular smog testing center my do something different than mine, etc. etc.
Good news, I don't think it gets any tougher than Cali. I wouldn't think that it should be a problem because, unlike the NOP that Gonzo is talking about, the changes we made shouldn't have affected any of the bits of evsup1. |
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nyet
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« Reply #58 on: August 21, 2011, 05:23:08 AM »
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Good news, I don't think it gets any tougher than Cali.
Sorta. CA smog stations themselves are notoriously lax .. and many states have MUCH tougher inspection procedures. I'd hate to make any guarantees to anybody here.. |
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Gonzo
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« Reply #59 on: August 21, 2011, 12:39:09 PM »
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Tell me what bits you wish me to set to 0 on my bench ECU and I'll gladly do it and take a screenshot of the OBD-II module. Also for the guys that have a VAGCOM 409, just download VCDS Lite and use that for the OBD-II module. Of course, nothing beats an official VCDS interface but this should work  |
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