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Title: MED9.1 too rich Post by: vwaudiguy on March 14, 2016, 12:11:02 PM Car has a big turbo. Not sure on the injectors (non stock), but I can find out. Checked all fuel pressure via VCDS, and all are within spec. @ idle, the car runs so rich, it barely stays running. Unplugged MAF, primary and secondary 02, and map, with no change. ECU adds +25% @ idle (with primary 02 and no maf) even though it's super rich. CTS reads correctly. Plugs are blacketty black obviously, and look identical across the board. Problem popped up out of nowhere according to the owner. ECU has a tune, so misfire detection is not active (not that I need it right now :)). I only have an hour into this so far, but looking for any suggestions before I start getting a visual on the hardware. Thanks!!
Title: Re: MED9.1 too rich Post by: nyet on March 14, 2016, 12:13:16 PM Pressure test.
Title: Re: MED9.1 too rich Post by: vwaudiguy on March 14, 2016, 12:14:48 PM Title: Re: MED9.1 too rich Post by: gman86 on March 15, 2016, 09:05:59 AM Running RS4s and not calibrated for them?
Title: Re: MED9.1 too rich Post by: vwaudiguy on March 15, 2016, 09:09:16 AM Running RS4s and not calibrated for them? I found out the injectors are stock. The engine is completely stock other than a HPFP upgrade. Going to spend some time on it today. Title: Re: MED9.1 too rich Post by: nyet on March 15, 2016, 11:56:59 AM Charge piping? Losing metered air, so pressure side, yes. Title: Re: MED9.1 too rich Post by: gman86 on March 15, 2016, 12:05:27 PM Losing metered air, so pressure side, yes. It's not going to lose metered air off boost, it'll pull unmetered air in. PCV is probably burst. First thing I'd do is flash a stock into it. Title: Re: MED9.1 too rich Post by: nyet on March 15, 2016, 01:11:56 PM I assumed he meant rich under boost, lean in idle:
ECU adds +25% @ idle (with primary 02 and no maf) even though it's super rich Title: Re: MED9.1 too rich Post by: vwaudiguy on March 15, 2016, 01:16:53 PM Flashed a stock file, same. Tried another ecu, same. Compression test perfect. Car did not have vacuum @ idle according to the gauge, checked the gauge, and it only shows a max of 10 inhg, even with 25+ on the vacuum tool. Turbo sounds like it's spooling @ idle...I'm thinking excess fuel could be causing this? Similar to how a diesel accelerates.
Title: Re: MED9.1 too rich Post by: vwaudiguy on March 15, 2016, 01:17:50 PM Losing metered air, so pressure side, yes. Engine acts the same with no maf. So no metered air. Forgot to mention after flashing a stock file got this 9 Faults Found: 004243 - Bank 1; Fuel Measuring System 2 P1093 - 008 - Malfunction 001290 - Cold Start Idle Air Control System P050A - 008 - Malfunction 001286 - Idle Control System P0506 - 008 - RPM Lower than Expected 004759 - Pressure Drop between Turbo and Throttle Valve (check D.V.!) P1297 - 001 - 000768 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected P0300 - 008 - 000769 - Cylinder 1 P0301 - 008 - Misfire Detected 000771 - Cylinder 3 P0303 - 008 - Misfire Detected 000772 - Cylinder 4 P0304 - 008 - Misfire Detected 000770 - Cylinder 2 P0302 - 008 - Misfire Detected No vacuum in the valve cover with the oil cap removed, checked the crankcase breathers, and they're good. DV is good, idles the same with it open/closed. Title: Re: MED9.1 too rich Post by: nyet on March 15, 2016, 01:41:04 PM With no maf, who cares? It's impossible to diagnose fueling.
Title: Re: MED9.1 too rich Post by: vwaudiguy on March 15, 2016, 01:46:20 PM With no maf, who cares? It's impossible to diagnose fueling. It's running so rich, there really isn't any need for diagnosis. Plugs are black, exhaust will make your eyes bleed. As a first step, I simply wanted to eliminate the ecu's feedback system. With a stock file, and no sensors it should run reasonably well if the hardware is good @ idle. I'm replacing the HPFP at the moment...All the fuel pressure sensors gave good readings with VCDS tests, but I think it has too much high pressure. I'll update soon. Title: Re: MED9.1 too rich Post by: vwaudiguy on March 15, 2016, 05:27:58 PM Ummmm yeah, so the throttle body butterfly broke in half. :) They're made of plastic on this. :( I was lucky to find 95% of the broken half stuck in one of the intake ports of the head. The other 5% may have made an escape! Thanks for all the suggestions, guys. After calling for parts, this is apparently a common issue. The throttle body part no. has been superseded. Hopefully it's made of metal now...
Title: Re: MED9.1 too rich Post by: corradovolksb on March 15, 2016, 07:57:59 PM Wow good find. I have never seen that but will keep an eye out for those failing.
Title: Re: MED9.1 too rich Post by: vwaudiguy on March 15, 2016, 08:18:24 PM I wanted to add having a tune on the car that writes a bunch of stuff out makes it tough for troubleshooting. These were the only codes present with the tuned file
001290 - Cold Start Idle Air Control System P050A - 008 - Malfunction 001286 - Idle Control System P0506 - 008 - RPM Lower than Expected I suspect the 004243 - Bank 1; Fuel Measuring System 2 P1093 - 008 - Malfunction Was from running a stock file with a HPFP upgrade. I didn't have a stock HPFP to install. It never occurred to me that VW would use a plastic butterfly especially on a turbocharged car. Does anyone know when they switched over? Title: Re: MED9.1 too rich Post by: gman86 on March 16, 2016, 07:54:23 AM Common problem with them. Usually caused by no DV and high boost setups, or running WMI which eats the plate.
Unfortunately the latest part is still plastic. Title: Re: MED9.1 too rich Post by: vwaudiguy on March 16, 2016, 08:24:57 AM Has anyone tried to retrofit an earlier non plastic tbody? I may try today if I have time using a spare ecu...
Title: Re: MED9.1 too rich Post by: gman86 on March 16, 2016, 10:09:25 AM I've never seen a non-plastic one. Both my 2005 A3 (AXX) and 2012 Golf R (CDL) have plastic TBs.
Title: Re: MED9.1 too rich Post by: vwaudiguy on March 16, 2016, 10:18:00 AM VR6 bolt pattern is the same. Hole is slightly larger, so you would have to make a hose adapter. You would also have to clock it and extend the harness to get it to open the OE way. 1.8T bolt pattern is smaller.
Title: Re: MED9.1 too rich Post by: gman86 on March 16, 2016, 10:48:10 AM VR6 bolt pattern is the same. Hole is slightly larger, so you would have to make a hose adapter. You would also have to clock it and extend the harness to get it to open the OE way. 1.8T bolt pattern is smaller. Ah. I thought you meant TFSI TB. Title: Re: MED9.1 too rich Post by: vwaudiguy on March 16, 2016, 10:55:37 AM I'm trying to possibly retrofit an earlier throttle body onto a later car. Engine is a 2012 FSI.
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