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Noob Zone => Noob Questions => Topic started by: 4loops on March 16, 2016, 10:04:09 AM



Title: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: 4loops on March 16, 2016, 10:04:09 AM
Hi Folks,

I've been looking around quite a bit at different threads, and trying to figure out how to read maps and xdf definition files, but I'm starting to get lost in my direction.
First, my goal, and then my thoughts on an approach:

My Goal: I'm swapping in an ART 40V 4.2 V8 into my 1999.5 B5, and will need to code for a manual trans to keep idle speed normal.  I also want to get my ECM to recognize the clutch switch I just installed, too.

The approach:
I thought I could go one of two ways: I thought I could first try to recode the current ME7.1 ECU from the ART engine, 4D0907558S module, to have a lower idle speed.  But then it looks like I would have to start changing maps.  I don't know why maps would be different from manual to automatic, other than an idle speed.  But from some research it looks like that is recommended.  It also seems that this 558S ECU was never intended to be coupled with a manual transmissiion.

So the second way, which I read, appears to be the direction I will have to take, would be to use a 4D0907560AE ME7.1.1 ECM from a 2001 C5 and then use a Euro S6 manual file (of which I don't know where to find yet, will need some help locating), and possibly overwrite some of the maps from my ART 558S module into this 560AE ECU.  
This really seems the way to go, but I'm at a loss of where to start.  From what I'm reading, I must have the .xdf file from the exact ECM I'm using, so this would mean I would need a 560AE .xdf file, but then what bin file should I use?  Also, I did find some talk of a 01 s6 manual file, but it was a 559E.xdf.  I don't think this file will work with my 560AE ECU, right? It looks like I will have to flash the S6 immo defeat 95040 file once I figure this out and flash my calibration file.  I'm not sure where to locate this file either.  I know if I use the ME7.1.1 ECU, I'll have to swich the injector 2 pin to a different (I don't remember which one I read right now) pin on the ECU so the injector doesn't stick on and cause a hydrolock situation.  I think this is the only hardwiring thing that will have to change other than making sure my ART harness has pins for the accelerator pedal and cuise control.

So I have a few questions obviously..  Where to start (what .xdf file to use as a base, what bin to start with), what things should I look to do (swapping maps, etc).
I'm pretty green to mapping/tuning, but I do work with calibration testing at an engine manufacturer, so I feel I will pick up on this fairly quickly.

For now, I'm not looking to tune in the sense of squeezing every ounce of power out that I possibly can, I'm just looking to configure/tune my ART working like stock in my B5 manual trans.  Once I get that and am confident with my successes, I might try to then dive back in later and modify.  But for now, I want to take the most cautious approach possible: I don't want to accidentally destroy my engine and waste my hard work so far with my swap.

I know others have done this before for setting up the ART to work with a manual trans (and specifically in the B5), but it was hard for me to follow details of how they configured that arrangement.

-Not looking for a spoon feeding, but some guidance would help me out a bunch!

Thanks a ton!


Title: Re: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: SB_GLI on March 16, 2016, 10:25:12 AM
Attached is a stock 4D0907559E Euro S6 file.  Hope it helps.

---

ME7Check v1.12 (c) mki, 06/2004-05/2012
Checking file C:\WinOLS (559E S6 (Original) - 360170) (size=1048576)
Reading Version Strings...
-> Bootrom Version = 06.02
-> EPK = 42/1/ME7.1.1/5/8001.07//23h/Dst03o/040800//
-> Contents of ECUID data table:
   - '0261206846'         (SSECUHN)
   - '1037360170'         (SSECUSN)
   - '4D0907559E  '       (VAG part number)
   - '0002'               (VAG sw number)
   - '4.2L V8/5V      '   (engine id)
-> Contents of ECUID data table:
   - 'HW_MAN004'

-> No errors found. File is OK.   *********************


Title: Re: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: 4loops on March 16, 2016, 10:52:54 AM
O wow! I wasn't expecting such a quick response!  Thanks a bunch, you're giving me some hope, through all the confusion  :)

So my apologies for these next few very elementary questions,  :-\ but here'goes:

I see this is a winols file, and since I have the testversion installed I thought I would try to open it with that to take a look.  It appears I need to train myself on the use of winols.  Can you point me to a resource that could help me understand how to use it to view this file?  At the moment I'm still struggling to open this file in winols.

I need to go over the nefmoto software documentation again, but from what I thought I read, I'll need the flash file (.bin) and memory layout file (nefmoto software calls for .xml filetype, but I've heard the file extension .xdf used all around, not sure which is needed).
So at the moment I'm confused as to how I would get this winols file to where I could either view it, and how I would get it in the form of a .bin and .xml (or .xdf).

Again, my apologies for the absolutely elementary questions, but hopefully there is some wiki or documentation on how to go between these?

If I've said something silly too, just let me know.  -Always eager to learn more.

Thanks!!!


Title: Re: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: 4loops on March 16, 2016, 11:14:53 AM
Ok, so I figured out how to open it with WinOLS Demo, by creating a new project and importing the file as a binary file.
So I'll have to learn what I'm looking at here.  I think I could figure out what maps are where if I found an .xdf file for the 560AE ECU?

If I'm looking at this correct, this actually is the bin file, right?  I would just need to add the .bin extension to it when downloading with nefmoto?  And I would have to make sure I found an .xdf file for this ECU -(or use the .xdf uploaded from the one I have) -that should work, right?

- Not that i would say I want to do that right now anyway, i first want to try to understand a bit about what's going on with the maps, and determine that all my ducks are in a row before I would think of downloading.


Title: Re: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: ddillenger on March 16, 2016, 11:36:35 AM
Yes, this is the binary/flash/eprom contents. It is the calibration if you will, and if you add a .bin extension it can be flashed with nefmoto.

Attached is my old 559E xdf that I was working on prior to my switching to OLS. I haven't looked at it in years, and don't recall what is, or is not correct. Buyer beware :P


Title: Re: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: 4loops on March 16, 2016, 11:48:53 AM
Ah, wow, wow, wow... I'm starting to grin from ear to ear.. You guys are such a HUGE help!
I'll really have to seek you guys out if I'm ever around wherever you are and get you a beer!

-I really do appreciate all the help  ;D

-Awesome, so it sounds like I have a complete set of files (.bin and .xdf) now, and could flash that if i wanted, and see how it runs.

But I'm going to first try to understand how the maps are generated and where/how they're located.
I think the map locations are specified in the .xdf file, which can be viewed with TunerPro, and I can use that to find those maps, by the specified address range in WinOLS.. right?  It looks like TunerPro has the ability to look at maps though, but it doesn't seem to have the power of WinOLS, plus WinOLS has what appears to have a nicer 2D and 3D viewer.  I guess you can't see the whole hex dump with TunerPro, though.  So I guess that's why WinOLS is so useful.  Is that the major reason to edit the bin's maps in WinOLS as opposed to TunerPro? -Just trying to understand the methodology of editing in which software, I guess.

Thanks again!!!


Title: Re: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: ddillenger on March 16, 2016, 12:02:10 PM
It's just about what makes the most sense to you I guess. Tunerpro is simple. It doesn't overwhelm you with info. winOLS isn't as simple, it's very daunting at first, but it's incredibly powerful.

You can connect the binaries, line up similar maps, and use OLS to visually show you similarities/differences, search for patterns, etc.

I have also attached the 560AE binary for comparisons sake.

Something you've failed to mention is that the S6 and A6 have differing intake configurations. One (A6) uses two solenoids to operate each stage independently, whereas the other (S6) uses one solenoid to operate the flaps in unison, and re-purposes the output of the second solenoid to control an air box flap. Leaving the solenoids in A6 configuration and running an S6 binary does terrible things.



Title: Re: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: adam- on March 16, 2016, 12:03:42 PM
Just for a quick clarification as it seems you are confused.

Imagine the .bin file is my novel.  Say I ask you to go and look up the fueling table?  You have no idea where it is or what to look for.  In order to "understand" the file, you need to understand what is on each "page" of the novel.

For this, you need an XDF or .kp file.  XDF is for TunerPro and .kp is for WinOLS.  Without these, you have no idea what maps are stored within my novel or what they do.

Since you now have an XDF, you can open your new .bin with TUNERPRO; NOT WinOLS! With TunerPro, you can navigate through the defined "pages" in the .bin and understand/adjust.

If you can get a .kp from a friendly user here, you can open the file in OLS and adjust it because you can see the maps from your defined .kp.

Imagine that the XDF (for TunerPro) or .kp (for WinOLS) is the contents page for the .bin.

As you said in the first paragraph, these XDF's or .kp's are peculiar to the specific .bin you have.  You cannot mix and match.

Furthermore, the XML for the Flasher is stored in the install directory (C:\Program Files (x86)\Nefarious Motorsports Inc\NefMoto VW Audi ME7 ECU Flasher\Memory Layouts) or similar.  There is a thread in here with the layouts for specific ECU's.  :)


Title: Re: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: ddillenger on March 16, 2016, 12:10:02 PM
I'd give you a kp, but you won't be able to open it without the current release I'm afraid. I can export a csv if you need specific map locations, just lmk. Happy to help.


Title: Re: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: 4loops on March 16, 2016, 01:33:36 PM
@adam-
Sorry I wasn't so clear on what I understand so far.. Right, the xdf is the "directory" to the maps in the bin.
I didn't know the WinOLS equivalent "directory" -the .kp file.
For now I think I feel comfortable using the TunerPro environment of .xdf and .bin files, I'll try to stick to those when I can.  

That's what I was thinking, that you can't mix and match .xdf's with .bins, but I'm still wondering if the .xdf matches the .bin, if they can be loaded into an ECM that doesn't exactly match, say, placing these 559E files in a 560AE ECM.  My gut feeling tells me this is off limits.  I have a feeling that I need to have a .xdf that matches its .bin, and both of those should match with the ECM they're going into.  Am I right on that one?  -At least for this application?

@ddillenger
Right.  It looks like Tunerpro is the editor for me, for now, being a greeney.  I can use a simple look at things for starters.
I was thinking that was the big plus with WinOLS, to find these patterns and look at all the data in one window.

Thanks for the 560AE binary. I'll start comparing maps, and looking in the tuning wiki to understand what I'm looking at.

You're right, I did forget to mention that about the intakes.. I have learned earlier that the intakes for the A6 and the S6 were different, but I thought it was more of a size difference, I did not know the S6 was only a 2 stage intake (only one flap).

I also got a little excited and didn't see that what was initially provided were 559E files, not 560AE files.  I just wasn't thinking there.  More comparison must be done.

So I think I've just overwhelmed myself with questions, and not sure what order to ask them, and which ones are appropriate. :-\

If my thinking is right, I need to create a complete & configured 560AE.xdf and a 560AE.bin to download to my 560AE ECU.  I don't think I can just modify these 559E files and download them to the 560AE ECU.  -This is kind of repetitive of the question I posed above.

Then if that is the case, I need to use the majority of the maps that are in the 559E Euro S6 .bin, and place/overwrite those appropriate maps into the 560AE bin.
-I'll have to learn which maps are appropriate to copy over.

But I'll have to consider what you mentioned about the intake flaps: I think I'll need to leave the stock 560AE [air handling]? map in place, so the ECU knows how to appropriately use the intake configuration: 2 flaps instead of 1 and an air box flap.  -Or better yet, I might have to copy the ART A6 558S air handling map into the 560AE, as the 558S and the 560AE are just a little different in intake manifold -or throttle orifice size, if I remember correctly.

-Am I getting that part correct?  Can the intake flap situation be taken care of if I change mapping information?  -Or is it more complicated, and maybe this is in base code, and not as easy as changing map tables?  -That's my biggest confusion right now, I guess.

I suppose I need to turn now to the tuning wiki, to see what map controls the intake flaps.  I've found a bit difficult to find so far though, most things are talking about 1.8 and 2.7 boosted motors.

Another side question about the intake flap differences: do you think it is in my best interests to a: change the ECU calibration to expect two intake flaps, or b: change the physical configuration of my intake flap actuators, and use one to actuate an air box flap??

I'll start comparing, hopefully I'll start to see how maps can be copied over to another .bin, and that the flaps can be controlled properly.


Title: Re: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: 4loops on March 16, 2016, 01:40:51 PM
I'd give you a kp, but you won't be able to open it without the current release I'm afraid. I can export a csv if you need specific map locations, just lmk. Happy to help.

I think I'd like to try and stay in my "kiddie pool"  ;) of TunerPro for now, if i can..
But if you mention that you are unsure of your 559E.xdf file since it's been a few years, maybe that is the way I should go, then?
I'm not so sure I could do much with it for right now.. I think I would need to get a .kp of a 560AE, and use it's 560AE .bin you posted, so I could compare all within WinOLS.

I think I'm getting so much good information, too, that I need to digest it and play with it, to see what appropriate questions I should be asking.  I feel as if I've been handed a lot of good information, now i need to study over it before I can ask better, more directed questions. 8)


Title: Re: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: 4loops on March 17, 2016, 05:17:42 AM
Hmm, this morning I wanted to start comparing the 559E to the 560AE files, but I've realized I don't have all the information I need for that.
I have the 559E.xdf and the .bin, but for the 560AE, I only have the bin file.  Would you happen to have a 560AE.xdf definition file?
Then I could get to comparing the two.

I guess I could wait till I create my bench flash harness and pull the 560AE file (and I guess the .bin that's there too) from my 560AE ECU laying in the garage, but I guess I'm just a little ancy to start comparing.  -Just for confirmation that my thoughts are correct on this: I could take the .xdf from my 560AE ECU, and use that definition file for the 560AE bin you sent me, right?  I would think this is correct, if the .xdf is the specific definition file for that ECU, it shouldn't matter what 560AE ECU I pull it from, right?

So might you have a 560AE.xdf file already? Or should I just grab that from my own 560AE ECU?

Thanks,


Title: Re: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: adam- on March 17, 2016, 06:02:33 AM
I guess I could wait till I create my bench flash harness and pull the 560AE file (and I guess the .bin that's there too) from my 560AE ECU laying in the
The file that you pull from the ECU IS the .bin.

take the .xdf from my 560AE ECU, and use that definition file for the 560AE bin you sent me, right?  I would think this is correct, if the .xdf is the specific definition file for that ECU, it shouldn't matter what 560AE ECU I pull it from, right?
Yes.  As long as the .bin and the XDF match, it'll work.

So might you have a 560AE.xdf file already? Or should I just grab that from my own 560AE ECU?
You have to create/define the XDF from the .bin.  The bin is the container, the XDF is the contents page. :)


Title: Re: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: 4loops on March 17, 2016, 06:41:25 AM
Aah, I thought when you read from the ECU, it pulled the .bin and a .xdf.  My mistake.  Only the .bin then.  Got it.

So if the .xdf must be created/defined from the .bin, that must mean that one must be learned at identifying for themselves what address each map starts and ends at?
If one must create the definition file, he must first know how to look at the .bin and know what he is looking at?

If so, man, I feel quite out of my league, and must do some major learning!  -And hat's off to all you who can do this!  Hopefully I can get there myself.
I am very much in the stage of "I don't know what I don't know".  It's more humbling as i discover how deep this rabbit hole goes! :P

Is there a wiki or documentation on how to create a .xdf directory file, from looking at a .bin?  A described method on how to identify where maps start and end?
I guess I could ask ddillenger for his csv for the 560AE he offered up, and that would immediately help me see map locations, but I'm curious how I could find this myself, too.


Title: Re: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: hopsis on March 17, 2016, 11:33:16 AM
I'd give you a kp, but you won't be able to open it without the current release I'm afraid. I can export a csv if you need specific map locations, just lmk. Happy to help.

I could sure use that. It's been months since I opened Winols, I need to do something before I forget everything :)


Title: Re: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: ddillenger on March 17, 2016, 11:50:41 AM
What version are you running? What file you want, and what do you need in it?


Title: Re: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: 4loops on March 17, 2016, 01:15:21 PM
What version are you running? What file you want, and what do you need in it?

I think you were directing your question to hopsis?

But if you were asking me, I was just saying I could use a 560AE .xdf, or the .kp (converted to a .csv, as you suggest) you mentioned you had for the 560AE.

Any thoughts on what maps I should be looking at to get a 560AE file thinking there is only one swirl flap? -and configure it for an A6 intake configuration?
-Edit: I think I meant to ask how I would get the 559E file thinking there are two swirl flaps (A6 configuration).  -Sorry for the confusion.


Title: Re: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: 4loops on March 17, 2016, 01:47:42 PM
Any thoughts on what maps I should be looking at to get a 560AE file thinking there is only one swirl flap? -and configure it for an A6 intake configuration?

I'm thinking this must be possible: I have been following bhusted's thread on audizine, and I thought I saw you were able to help him out with the same scenario.
I even have the same (ART) engine, and donor (B5 1999.5, 01A trans) car...  I'd like to try and recreate the maps/bin as well, get it back functional, and learn something along the way..   ;)


Title: Re: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: ddillenger on March 17, 2016, 03:13:28 PM
KFSU are the swirl flaps. However, as I stated, they work differently. To make the S6 file operate as an A6 you'd need code changes (Or I suppose use KFLUKL which operates the now defunct secondary flap solenoid).


Title: Re: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: hopsis on March 17, 2016, 10:50:37 PM
Don't want to clutter this thread any more, I'm using 559D atm but any 4.2 ME7.1 or 7.1.1 kp/xdf will do. I have most of the basic maps covered but codewords and Eskonf bits are a bitch to find, I've been reading and testing disassembly but it has proven to be even more challenging than I expected.


Title: Re: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: 4loops on March 18, 2016, 04:30:07 AM
KFSU are the swirl flaps. However, as I stated, they work differently. To make the S6 file operate as an A6 you'd need code changes (Or I suppose use KFLUKL which operates the now defunct secondary flap solenoid).

Right.  I saw the KFSU and KFSU2 definitions in the 559E xdf.  But my thoughts exactly: how I would get the 559E file to behave as an A6 with it's swirl flap operation.  Also, KFLUKL is new to me.  I don't see that in the 559E xdf you gave me.  I tried searching for KFLUKL, too.  I don't see it in the S4 tuning wiki nor the ME7 tuning information section, nor in the whole site.

That's what I was wondering in post#9: if this would require a code change rather than just a map change.  Do we have any real ability to change the code, or is my only option really to play with maps?

I was thinking I could take the swirl flap #2 map from the A6 558S, and overwrite those values in the S6's (559E) secondary (airbox) flap map (KFSU2, if I'm correct).  Am I thinking right here?: That should make the S6 file's secondary flap (KFSU2) table want to move the #2  swirl flap appropriately, as opposed to moving the air box flap?  -Or is it just not that simple?

Another question:  I understand that the .xdf and .bin must match each other (the table of contents, and the pages), but can I place these 559E.xdf and 559E.bin into my 560AE ECU?  I've read that sometimes one can use different hardware, but it must be compatible.  Is the 560AE one of those compatible ECUs for the 559E file?


Title: Re: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: 4loops on March 22, 2016, 01:19:46 PM
Allright, I've taken to some WinOLS youtube training, to get a hang for how to compare bins.  I have compared the following three files:
  • The 559E S6 file from ddillenger
    The 560AE '01 A6 file from ddillenger
    The 558S '00 A6 file from turboegt

I have located each files' Flap 1 and Flap 2 map.  
For the A6 files of 560AE and 558S, I believe these are called KFSU (for intake flap 1) and KFSU2 (for intake flap 2)
For the S6 file of 559E, I believe these are called KFSU (for intake flap 1) and KFLUKL (for the air box flap)
-I suppose names don't really matter.  I've located the data in WinOLS and semantics really shouldn't matter for editing the data once it's found.

So this is what I want to do: Take the map and table from the 558S's intake flap 1 & 2, and overwrite those maps in the 559E's intake flap 1 & air box flap maps.  From my point of view, this should allow the S6 559E file's two flap maps behave like A6 558S/560AE flaps.

Please tell me I'm on the right track.  I feel like I am.

Here's an image that shows I've found the data and that the tables are all the same size.  I'm sure this should work:
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1690/25364064413_be5ef57b66_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/EDksFp)A6-S6 Flap Maps Comparison (https://flic.kr/p/EDksFp)


Title: Re: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: TwoToes on June 30, 2016, 09:39:47 PM
Do you have any further progress on this?
I'm very interested in doing something very similar.


Title: Re: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: 4loops on July 01, 2016, 05:35:22 AM
No more progress on this since my last post, but be assured I haven't dropped the subject!
For my 4.2 swap into the b5, I've been focusing on finishing the brakes, new lines for that, motor mount setup, radiator and clip, and intake swirl flap bushings... that and a new edition to the family has slowed me down a bit, but it's still going, and I will get back to this!

I'm going to try to compile everything I've learned and how-to's as best possible once I get this figured out.  I'm all about compiling knowledge to make it easier for the next guy!


Title: Re: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: TwoToes on July 01, 2016, 09:00:08 AM
Excellent news. Ill be working on this in my spare time as well.
Are you doing a full build/project on another forum?


Title: Re: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: 4loops on July 01, 2016, 09:18:35 AM
Yea, full-on swap.  Taking a 4.2 ART from an '00 A6 (auto trans) and plopping it in my '99.5 a4 (5-spd man trans).
Here's the thread:
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/680171-Detailed-V8-Swap-B5-A4-4-2L

If you're doing the same thing, hopefully we can help eachother along in our understanding  8)


Title: Re: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: TwoToes on July 01, 2016, 11:32:22 AM
Yeah. I intend to swap an ART into a 2001 B5 I bought just to put the V8 into.
I initially bought the car (2000 A6 4.2) to swap the engine into my B4 (1995 Audi 90) then after some research found it was WAY easier to put in a B5. Almost too easy. So I decided to go for it and found one with a 2.8 with a spent timing belt.
I've read your thread before, I was amazed at you flap bushing reproduction skills. Nice work.


Title: Re: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: 4loops on July 01, 2016, 12:24:49 PM
 ;)
Thanks buddy.  None of that could've happened though unless I had a little CNC mill sitting beside me at work  ;D
I've setup my toolpaths to machine the other side of the bushing, just got to clamp the 1/2 done part back on the MIL and get to cutting.  Not a bunch of material to grab on to though, once the bottom half is machined.  Hopefully the bit doesn't come in too fast, grab the thing and pull it out of the vise, sending it flying across the shop  :-\  I'm definitely green at the whole milling thing.

Once I have that all machined and I test it to fit right, I'll release the .stl and .vcp files for someone to hopefully mass produce and sell cheaply!

Great to hear someone else is doing this swap.  Glad you got the 2.8, you can reuse the subframe.  I'm curious to see if your engine will sit on the mounts and clear the subframe, or if you'll need to cut the subframe to fit.  I had to cut mine to clear the oil pan, others did too, but then some folks said they didn't have to.  I don't know how they didn't have to, unless their oil pan was shaped just right.. (maybe there were oil pan differences even on the ART engine?)  -but nonetheless, curious to see how you go about these things.

Got a thread I can browse through? -To see your progress?


Title: Re: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: TwoToes on July 01, 2016, 05:33:53 PM
Great to hear someone else is doing this swap.  Glad you got the 2.8, you can reuse the subframe.  I'm curious to see if your engine will sit on the mounts and clear the subframe, or if you'll need to cut the subframe to fit.  I had to cut mine to clear the oil pan, others did too, but then some folks said they didn't have to.  I don't know how they didn't have to, unless their oil pan was shaped just right.. (maybe there were oil pan differences even on the ART engine?)  -but nonetheless, curious to see how you go about these things.

Got a thread I can browse through? -To see your progress?
I didn't start a thread. I suppose I could but I feel like it might just annoy people having the same thing. I feel like yours is the last thread allowed before its concidered "beating a dead horse". I DO like how every thread that I read gives me a little more info that the last didn't though.
I read on one of them that the ground the bottom of the rear of the block that's no longer needed when bolting it to a manual trans and maybe that's why some clear and some don't.
So far I've just got the 4.2 pulled from the C5 and waiting on parts to put the timing back together.
I just remembered that I have questions to ask but I'll do that on your build thread so it will be more accessible to others in the future.


Title: Re: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: 4loops on July 05, 2016, 06:13:22 AM
Well, I kind of thought the same thing before I started my thread.  So I thought I'd be as detailed as possible to add something to the whole b5 V8 swap scene.  By labeling my thread "Detailed" swap, I think I've really set the bar... Hopefully I'll deliver on this.

I wouldn't say yours would be beating a dead horse though.  If you show your experiences and if they differ from what I and others might have done I think it could just clarify on some points.  If anything it'd give you a place to ask your specific questions and get exact feedback.. It's totally up to you though  8)

Good luck on the build!


Title: Re: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: 4loops on August 09, 2016, 09:39:51 AM
It's been a while since I've touched this subject, but I'm getting closer to wiring the engine, and I will want to start investigating this again.

Anyone have any thoughts on whether I can download my modified 559E S6 .bin as mentioned above into my 560AE ECM? -using the 559E .xdf definition file to match, of course.

I'm thinking this should work without any hiccups, right?
-Just making sure I change injector #2's wiring to the newer, appropriate ECM pin (so it isn't constantly powered on, pouring fuel into the cylinder -and thus causing a hydrolock situation)

-Thanks!


Title: Re: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: grifrowl on December 15, 2016, 10:42:55 AM
This file runs a manual swapped awn on stock me7.1.1 pretty well. How did this project end up going?


Title: Re: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: SteveAR on August 01, 2017, 10:47:49 AM
This file runs a manual swapped awn on stock me7.1.1 pretty well. How did this project end up going?

grifrowl,
   I would like to use this file on my AWN swapped Allroad.  Is the attached file for a ME7.1 or ME7.1.1?  My motor/ECU is out of a 2001 A6.  The Allroad has a 01E installed.  What needs to be done to address the issue with the discrepancy with the changeover flap(s) between the Euro S6 intake system and US A6 system?      I didn't quite understand the explanation in the following thread:

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/517836-Question-for-V8-gurus-Will-an-AWN-engine-harness-work-on-a-40v-S6-BBD-motor (http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/517836-Question-for-V8-gurus-Will-an-AWN-engine-harness-work-on-a-40v-S6-BBD-motor)


Title: Re: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: SteveAR on August 01, 2017, 10:50:56 AM
Eh sorry, my brain was having a fart.  I see that you said ME7.1.1.  Any info on the changeover flap issue?


Title: Re: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: grifrowl on August 02, 2017, 11:25:52 AM
Here's an example of an a6 kfsu2 map vs s6 to accommodate for the change from controlling intake box flap to 2nd manifold flap.
That's far from the only change in the file though.


Title: Re: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: SteveAR on August 02, 2017, 11:30:45 AM
So are you saying the attachment you supplied in the post above has already taken into account controlling the second manifold flap?


Title: Re: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: grifrowl on August 02, 2017, 11:42:30 AM
Yeah flash and go on awn, do with it what you will.


Title: Re: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: SteveAR on August 31, 2017, 02:57:44 PM
Yeah flash and go on awn, do with it what you will.

So does this file have a functioning clutch signal?   The drive-by-wire is crazy inaccurate and when I have cruise set and I push the clutch in the RPM's redline.  Doesn't seem to be recognizing the clutch signal.  Does the Euro S6 need the clutch signal going to a different pin than US spec?  Right now I have the clutch signal going to ECU PIN 39.   When the clutch is released that signal goes to ground and when the clutch pedal is pushed it goes open. (no continuity)  I also went to group 66 memory block with VCDS and I am not seeing the clutch signal bits toggling.  I see the brake pedal bits toggling but not clutch.


Title: Re: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: grifrowl on September 01, 2017, 10:32:12 AM
So does this file have a functioning clutch signal?   The drive-by-wire is crazy inaccurate and when I have cruise set and I push the clutch in the RPM's redline.  Doesn't seem to be recognizing the clutch signal.  Does the Euro S6 need the clutch signal going to a different pin than US spec?  Right now I have the clutch signal going to ECU PIN 39.   When the clutch is released that signal goes to ground and when the clutch pedal is pushed it goes open. (no continuity)  I also went to group 66 memory block with VCDS and I am not seeing the clutch signal bits toggling.  I see the brake pedal bits toggling but not clutch.
Yes, as said this is a plug and go file. You have an issue with wiring.


Title: Re: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: SteveAR on September 01, 2017, 10:45:48 AM
Can someone else comment on where they have their clutch signal wired to the ECM?  I have looked at the wiring diagrams for APB/BEL 2.7T, 4.2L BAS/BHF and 4.2L AWN/BBD and they all indicate the clutch is wired to ECM - 39.  I have my clutch signal wired there and the signal is functional.  I did not have a clutch signal problem with either my 2.7T BEL ECM or B6S4 4.2L ECM. 
Thank you


Title: Re: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: grifrowl on September 01, 2017, 10:51:34 AM
It looks like 39 is correct for clutch trigger. Scotch lock the other end to pin 3 on the brake switch.

Pinouts of 40v 4.2 harnesses for progeny:



Title: Please delete
Post by: grifrowl on September 11, 2017, 02:30:35 PM
I'm having trouble uploading me7.1 version to this thread for some reason.


Title: Re: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: grifrowl on September 11, 2017, 03:13:11 PM
In need of Moderator cleanup pls.


Title: Re: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: grifrowl on September 11, 2017, 09:59:45 PM
Here's an updated 559d xdf that bin is aligned to.


Title: Re: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: 78f350 on October 16, 2017, 04:46:12 PM
Thanks for your posts grifrowl.

I've been lurking here off and on for a while and saw the activity. I'm starting to swap an AUX 4.2L from an '03 A8 into a Porsche Boxster. I bought a few cheap ECUs on eBay and have bricked two with incompatible .bins. What ECUs can I flash with 420blazeg0d.bin? I'm guessing 4D0907560CE. I have a 4D0907560AF (2001 A8) that i did immo off on and haven't bricked yet... any idea if I can flash that? Thx.


Title: Re: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: vwaudiguy on October 16, 2017, 10:23:55 PM
Thanks for your posts grifowl.

I've been lurking here off and on for a while and saw the activity. I'm starting to swap an AUX 4.2L from an '03 A8 into a Porsche Boxster. I bought a few cheap ECUs on eBay and have bricked two with incompatible .bins. What ECUs can I flash with 420blazeg0d.bin? I'm guessing 4D0907560CE. I have a 4D0907560AF (2001 A8) that i did immo off on and haven't bricked yet... any idea if I can flash that? Thx.


4D0907559E


Title: Re: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: grifrowl on October 16, 2017, 11:42:49 PM
Thanks for your posts grifowl.

I've been lurking here off and on for a while and saw the activity. I'm starting to swap an AUX 4.2L from an '03 A8 into a Porsche Boxster. I bought a few cheap ECUs on eBay and have bricked two with incompatible .bins. What ECUs can I flash with 420blazeg0d.bin? I'm guessing 4D0907560CE. I have a 4D0907560AF (2001 A8) that i did immo off on and haven't bricked yet... any idea if I can flash that? Thx.


Yes, the first file I posted for a6/8 engine on me7.1.1


Title: Re: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: 78f350 on October 17, 2017, 10:38:47 AM
Yes, the first file I posted for a6/8 engine on me7.1.1.
Awesome. I just successfully flashed it to the 4D0907560AF ECU. Verified it didn't brick and the contents match. Hopefully in a week or so, I'll have the engine in and rest of the harness sorted out enough to give it an initial run. Lots of ancillary stuff to work out to get it road/track ready, but this should be a big help. Thanks.


Title: Re: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: siliverbullet420 on November 04, 2017, 11:22:31 PM
A friend (grifrowl) pointed out that me7.1.1 intake flap mapping (that I stole from a stock bin) seems to be pretty lacking in the first file. Copying maps from me7.1 ver pushes a little more torque in the midrange. Just take a look yall.


Title: Re: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: grifrowl on November 05, 2017, 09:47:05 AM
Awesome. I just successfully flashed it to the 4D0907560AF ECU. Verified it didn't brick and the contents match. Hopefully in a week or so, I'll have the engine in and rest of the harness sorted out enough to give it an initial run. Lots of ancillary stuff to work out to get it road/track ready, but this should be a big help. Thanks.
Do you have a build thread to follow?


Title: Re: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: SteveAR on November 15, 2017, 05:23:55 PM
It looks like 39 is correct for clutch trigger. Scotch lock the other end to pin 3 on the brake switch.

Pinouts of 40v 4.2 harnesses for progeny:


So I'm finally getting back around to playing with this.  Re-verified I have 12V/0V at pin 39 when pressing clutch.  Not seeing signal in VCDS group 066.  Just happened to look at my soft-coding (07752).  Googled that sequence and looks like that's a TIP sequence.  Seems this has been my mistake.  VCDS doesn't have a pop up balloon showing the different coding options.  (Definition file) So looks like I've been driving around with the ECM thinking the car is an auto.   No Christmas tree dash but lots of funky things happening.  Anyway, Can you (or someone) tell me the proper softcoding to enter?  The car is a 2004 Allroad.  But I've found that usually in the soft coding A6/Allroad are synonymous.  I don't know which bit is to switch from auto to manual. 
Thanks!


Title: Re: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: Phil_R on November 15, 2017, 06:49:23 PM
I have put a V8 into my A4 and had to recode to 10712 to work with the ME7.1.1 file posted


Title: Re: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: SteveAR on November 15, 2017, 07:53:00 PM
I have put a V8 into my A4 and had to recode to 10712 to work with the ME7.1.1 file posted

Yes that's it thank you.  Another person responded about simultaneously in another forum with the same code.  The car is completely different now!!  Clutch switch is now registering in VCDS, idle control is better, drive-by-wire is more responsive.  I'm one happy man!  Driving this car for the last month or two has been a nightmare.....


Title: Re: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: grifrowl on November 15, 2017, 08:11:31 PM
Yes that's it thank you.  Another person responded about simultaneously in another forum with the same code.  The car is completely different now!!  Clutch switch is now registering in VCDS, idle control is better, drive-by-wire is more responsive.  I'm one happy man!  Driving this car for the last month or two has been a nightmare.....

For progeny again. I often find it easier to just reflash 95040 than to walk through the vcds shit.


Title: Re: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: SteveAR on November 17, 2017, 03:47:17 PM
For progeny again. I often find it easier to just reflash 95040 than to walk through the vcds shit.

Wouldn't each individual cars SKC/VIN/CLUSTER ID etc be different?  I assume the attached EEPROM files are IMMO off and setup as a manual, but the VIN/SKC would be wrong (?)

On another topic, can you tell me the measuring blocks for both of the intake flap solenoids?  I'd like to use VCDS to activate both solenoids and make sure both the solenoid and vacuum source are working properly


Title: Re: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: grifrowl on November 21, 2017, 09:18:35 PM
Wouldn't each individual cars SKC/VIN/CLUSTER ID etc be different?  I assume the attached EEPROM files are IMMO off and setup as a manual, but the VIN/SKC would be wrong (?)

On another topic, can you tell me the measuring blocks for both of the intake flap solenoids?  I'd like to use VCDS to activate both solenoids and make sure both the solenoid and vacuum source are working properly

http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/m_blocks/090-098.html


Title: Re: Which direction to take?: Coding my 4.2 ART for manual
Post by: 78f350 on December 07, 2017, 09:08:22 AM
Do you have a build thread to follow?
Sorry for the late reply, lots of distractions and little progress... I don't have a build thread, but lots of posts on the 986forum. Here's a thread that seems to have most of my progress:
http://986forum.com/forums/performance-technical-chat/66668-any-progress-v8-engine-swap-options.html
Once I get a solid/proven build together, I'm going to post it with details. Looking to have it on the track/street this spring (2018).