NefMoto

Hi,

Then i step down the pedal fast (WOT) at low rpm (around 1800rpm - 2500 rpm) The engine just cuts the power for som milliseconds and after that it gets back in order. Im sure some of you have an idea what could cause this or how to disable this.  What shall i logg to get a picture of what it could be?

I am suspecting IRL or IOP have something to do with this?

Why not just log the torque intervention path?

There's literally no point in guessing and NOT logging.

Could also be too rich mixture via LAMFA.
But yea, just log.

I mean, ME7L allows you to log just about EVERYTHING all at once. You don't even have to "decide" what to log.

I agree. :)
When you're initially "debugging" a car - just log as many "representative" vars as you can, and then narrow it down and increase sample rate. At least that's what I usually do.

Yes I know that :)  But im running an ST10 Processor in my Me7.1.1 and Me7L doesnt support that wich SUCK BIG time... Maybe VCDS can log that.. but dunno what parameter i shall log..

Could these be found in VCDS? Or is ther any other method to logg these?

EngineLoad
EngineLoadCorrected
EngineLoadRequested
EngineLoadSpecified


Another option is to disable torquemonitoring completly just to try and error..

Will follow this example.

Table KFMIZUOF = 99.6% for all base points
Z - 11619 * 0.390625
X - 1008E * 40
Y - 1166D * 0.390625

Scalar TMNSMN  = -48 C
11676 * 0.75 - 48

Scalar TANSMN  = -48 C
11675 * 0.75 - 48

Heres my LAMBDA i think it looks OK on E85 and high comppression

Can not find KFMIZUOF in MDZUL in my engine.. They must have changed on the ST10 ECU´s crap... and more crap.. Working in the darkness as usual without propper logging tools.

I founds This MAP (KFMOF) Must be:    KFMIZUFIL Zuläassiges indiziertes Moment zur Momentenbegrenzung vor Filter ??

Torquelimiter now disabled on all fronts... Still get this annoying short jerk...  I have gone through lambda and suck things. Also increased dwell time a bit. Cant se anything in my logs..

I logged accel pedal vs Actual plate angle I couldnt se anything suspicious there.

i have that same problem!

I think it's fuel related. It only happened when i swapped in bigger injectors. Logs show a sharp spike in AF when it happens as well.

You can try playing with KFBALB/KFBAKL to smooth out load transition AFRs - if you're 100% sure it's injector related.
Double-check on TVUB too.

I'll look into that.

I'm pretty confident on that due to the fact i swapped in these injectors brand new 2 years ago when i was NA, dialed them in, and i noticed the momentary buck back then as well.

Thanks ill try that too.. i have car infront of me :-)

any luck Jim?

Well.. I realized i had to implement that map into my TunerPRo project.. now i have done so.. 

But im not sure how this map works?  Faktor Beschleunigungsanreicherung (K+L-Anteil) Wich means Acceleration enrichment.

At 90c engine temp for example it looks like i have less enrichment than when cooler engine. Do you suggest that I enrich a bit more here? Could be so since im running E85.. hmmm.. Ill try and se what happens :)

I dont have KFBALB it seems.. only forced indiction have this i guess..

KFBAKL gives acceleration enrichment, more the KFBAKL more is the enrichment

Been increasing KFBAKL in stages now.. without any success.   When the car is just started and almost cold i have no issues what so ever... But after driving inpired for couple mins i get this "throttle cut" sort of problem at lower rpms around 1500 - 2300..  It just looses all power and bang comes back.. it dipps..  Very frustrating since i cant enjoy the low end torue feeling in my 3.2 liter.

Some say check TVUB: heres my actual figures.. Im running Bosch EV14 1000cc on E85.

_16.00_ _38.00_ _59.00 _ _80.00__122.0_
2.5603 | 16.402 | 1.1895 | 0.8801 | 0.7708

It feels lika a temp related problem.. Because at cooler engine i dont have this at all?

Post a log for crying out loud

I have NO idea why anybody thinks fueling would cause throttle cut.

When the engine locks up, there's permanent throttle cut.

Heres a VCDS log with plate angle.. At the end of the log im trying to force the problem. I see alot of 100% angle but its around this area the problem occurs..

Without seeing pedal angle, requested torque, and requested load, it is impossible to tell anything from logs :(

You're going to have to find a real logging solution or you are pretty much dead in the water.

I could look at requested torque+load and se if i can find something there..

What maf did you end up using on this?

If you mean MAF size?  83mm S4 MAF with VR6 3.2 sensor.

Anything folks?

Use a MAF setup where you can grab values from another bin instead of a mix. When you've sorted stuff like this you can switch to larger/custom MAF and start running boost.

He is running a NA engine with a turbo and massively underscaled load.
His ECU's throttle control has no idea he is running boost either.

Those on this forum who know how to help you, will not help you with this.

PRJ is correct, If I knew how to fix this I would help you. Since we are here to learn, PRJ
if he were to change to a HPX PMAS and run it in blow though would that not help with this problem?
Again I am just asking and I know the correct answer is a custom patch of code, but i dont understand
that side of things.

Of course not. How would that possibly change the ECU's failure understand >100 load?

Bottom line: adding FI to an NA ECU is a lot of work and CANNOT BE DONE by just twiddling a few maps.

It is utter folly.

I have no fucking clue how many times we have to say the same thing. It is one thing to be able to quickly learn to DIY a few simple map changes. It is a whole other thing to learn how to write custom code for an ECU you barely understand.

If you dont even know what LOAD is, how can you possibly expect to be able to patch the ENTIRE load path of the ECU, in assembly, without source code?


It is not even this; it is a purely practical matter: training somebody to do this is a shitload of work and would likely take weeks if not months of handholding and explanations, and unless the student is already familiar with assembly and embedded systems in general, not even that is possible.

To complicate matters even further, a proper logging system would still need to be created, from scratch, that can log arbitrary RAM locations.

My problem existed when I was NA as well. More specifically when I installed the 630cc and dialed them in.

This doesn't make any sense. If the 630cc's injectors were properly dialed in, they'd deliver exactly the same amount of fuel as the stock injectors, unless the spray pattern was completely wrong or there was some other mechanical problem.

In any case, proper diagnosis would require getting a proper logger written for this ECU.

I wholeheartedly agree with you. I did the logical thing and swapped back to stock injectors and tune and the problem was gone.

Which 630s did you use?

Why would changing injectors require a change to this map?

USRT Genesis II. Essentially Bosch EV14.

you know I thought that but the spray pattern was designed for multi valve heads. Scott saw to that. Maybe I have a bad one?

Did you position them correctly? In such a way that the spray pattern mimics stock injectors.
Tried adjusting TVUB? How do fuel trims look with them?

I positioned them as close to stock as possible. They do have a long neck that extends down past the o-ring probably 3/4" so they protrude into the air stream whereas the stock injectors have their exit right after the o-ring.

My fuel trims are dialed in within 3%.

I'll have to get TVUB looked at.

I thought we were talking 24v vr6...
I understand they are multivavle heads but they have crazy long runners unlike most other multi
valve heads. On the site they show a 1.8t. I thinking your spraying a ton of fuel on the walls of the ports instead
of atomizing it.

And this might be wrong. Different injectors have different spray pattern.
Check http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Fuel_injectors#Orientation

EDIT: I assume you're using Porsche 997tt 630s with long neck?
Here's TVUB from the stock 997tt binary:
7.01 10.05 12.04 14.02 16.00
3.07 1.41 1.00 0.65 0.57

http://www.bosch-motorsport.com/media/catalog_resources/Injection_Valve_EV_14_Datasheet_51_en_2775993867pdf.pdf (http://www.bosch-motorsport.com/media/catalog_resources/Injection_Valve_EV_14_Datasheet_51_en_2775993867pdf.pdf)

Please look at page 3, and then realize how ignorant that statement is.

It's not. Try again. Anyway I'm not here to argue with you. You've provided some insight so I thank you for THAT.

40v 4.2L

Well different engine than op, but i stick with spary pattern problem.

It is. Most engines produced these days have heads with more than 2 valves.
Says fuck all about the injector - it is pure marketing technobabble that means absolutely nothing.

You have two options:
a) You can find an injector with exactly the right spray pattern
b) You can find an injector with as wide cone as possible. Meaning delta and gamma angles being straight and alpha being at least 30 degrees.

After that you obviously will have to recalculate the wall film calculations. Instead of dumping a ton into kfbakl and kfvakl simply ajust WFRL so your transients work properly.

Also, Siemens Deka are very crappy injectors. They are imprecise at low pulsewidths and they drop precision at low pulsewidth over time.
The only reason people use them is because they are cheap. EV14 is where it is at.

Could you expand a bit on how to properly tune WFRL? I read and digested what I could from the FR, but was looking for a more basic explanation. I could also start another thread about the topic..

Log RLP and actual AFR, then mash the throttle in different amounts at different rpm's to go through the range more or less. See how AFR responds just after you mashed the throttle. If it is lean at a certain RLP, increase he values, if it is rich, decrease. If when mashing the throttle AFR follows requested, you've nailed it.
It's very straightforward.

Perfect, thanks!

You would be CORRECT :)