NefMoto

i am on stock file and stock intake i have replace dv cam follower hpfp fuel filter MAF check for intake leaks by smoke test i will be replacing the intake pump once the new locker ring comes in or the g247 fuel sensor

Get error code p2177

Go over the basics of how the pcv system works. Then think about what happens when you go from a vaccum to positive pressure.

I did a smoke test it passed and when pressured up the front pcv closes but can hear a light bleeding of air around the turbo some where.

You're heading in the right direction.

What would bleed off air around turbo I also have a gfb+ dv but I do have ltft with stock file and stock intake, only thing I haven't replaced was the g247

You most likely have a rear main seal leak . The 2.0T was made to have a lot of vacuum in the crankcase but the engineers did not think about the front and rear main seals. I have seen many rear seals become badly worn because of to much vacuum in the crankcase . the engine in the past would use 0.2 - 1.5 of vacuum in the crankcase but VAG thought it would be a GREAT idea to up the vacuum to 2.5 - 5.0 vacuum on some engines . 2.5 - 5.0 is WAY TOO MUCH.

My point is the rear main seal is most likely the problem because VAG uses too much vacuum in the crankcase .

Lee

If this is true I'm going to need a couple beers. How do you diagnose this? I smoke tested the car. No oil leaks either.

As for oil leaks from the rear main seal most of the time it does not leak oil but it will allow air to be sucked in due to the PCV system applying vacuum to the crankcase .  The PCV system is a bullshit design with too much vacuum going to the crankcase . I hate idiot engineers .

With that said you need a few thing to diag the rear main seal .1. you need a computer or scanner that can read live fuel trims when the engine is running . 2, You need a can of parts cleaner or a can of brake cleaner .   Now jack up the car and start it . Hook you the computer / scanner and find the " STFT " or front O2 live readings . After all that you will watch closely the STFT  while you spray the can of parts / brake cleaner between the transmission and engine or in one of the inspection holes on the transmission. You will need to spray for a minimum of 3 -4 seconds for you to see a reading on the computer / scanner .   If the rear main seal is leaking you will see the STFT start to read ( -10 to -28 ) . That indicated you rear main seal is bad .


NOTE : almost every 2.0T rear main seal starts to suck in air around 50,000 mile and gets worse as time goes by .


Lee

News to me, and I've worked on a lot of high powered TFSI engines. If that's the case, then on crankcase pressure, it'd be spewing oil out via said seal.

what can i log to further diagnose this?

I have replaced 2 rear mian seals this year but last years my shop had replaced over 10  of them . The local dealership in Danvers Ma ( Ira Audi ) replaces 1-2 per week . I am suprised you have never heard of this problem because it is a common problem with all 2.0T engine platforms .

Lee

I have no oil leak though, also this is known on the tsi engines. My engine is a bpy fsi engine.

Lee, this is excellent information.  Thank you for sharing.

KTM733 , most of the times the rear main seal will not leak oil but it will allow the engine to suck in vacuum through it . This problem is on all 2.0T engines from 2008 to 2015 . The 20016 1.8T engine are having the same rear main seal problem as well .

Lee

my tsi tiguan got a rear main seal replacement.  ::)

I removed the shield and l leaked some map gas into that area, fuel trims were all over the place so I couldn't really verify that it is leaking. I have what seems to be pretty high vaccum in the crank case. Yet I've replaced the whole pcv system with oem parts. What should the crank case vaccum be at?
Can you show me what your stock readings are for block 93 and 94.
I don't think this is the problem just want to verify.

Huh, rear main is a problem but not as a vaccum leak, if it aint leaking oil it aint leaking air.
Guys lets fix this car, its not the rear main. Did you just do the diapham or a new whole assb.

The whole assembly, I'll log my lamfa corrections so you can see it's all over the place. Yes I have pressure tested and smoked the whole system. As you see in the logs everything follows specified. Idle adaption is 2% and partial is 21%. I hate to reiterate but this car is possessed! The only thing that I can think of is some how my fuel injectors are clogged yet I have no missfires so that defeats that. Or my cam I screwed up from possibly a previous owner? What's the lobe lift spec? Last but not leak my high pressure fuel pumped is bad but my hpfp pressure follows spec and so does my low

At what pressure is the smoke test being performed? Have you pressure tested yout boost piping?
I've seen the end tanks on the intercooler leak.
Let me ask you this, What faults does it throw?

Lean off idle, only code. I can watch live data add 22% when I rev it up at idle. Now when I let it idle it +-2. I checked fuel lines for kinks nothing.
Take into consideration I have not replaced the module as I'm not trying to just swap parts. I have nothing to go off of though. No missfires, stutters, it runs fine. I even unplugs brake booster and n80 from the intake to cross out check valve problems. Still adds 22%

The test is at 12 psi on the smoke machine. I then do a pressure test at 18 psi.

Carsinc : you don't have a clue on how the PCV system works on the 2.0T engines do you ?  The PCV allows to much vacuum in the engine case and it will pull air . Again like I said before the rear main sometimes will not leak oil but it will allow air to be pulled in the engine case and that will give you a LEAN code at idle or at part throttle . I dont own a European car because I am an Idiot . I have been doing this for 20+ years and I might know a thing or two more than you . good luck .


Lee

If there's one thing I've found it's that you can either be good at tuning, or be good at being a mechanic. Not both.

If you can't handle having your OPINION challenged on this forum without resorting to that sort of dialogue, then it's probably not for you.

The amount of air that could possibly leak in via a seal that doesn't leak oil, past the transmission>block gasket, through the PCV mixed with the blow-by gasses and into the inlet is not going to be enough to put out the trims as much as being seen here.

Dear, gman86

What the hell is a "  transmission>block gasket "  ????  ??? There is not one engine in a car out there that has a air tight seal between the transmission and the engine . What in gods name are you talking about ? If you can show me a gasket or seal that seals air off from transmission to engine in any 2.0T engine and stops atmospheric air  I will eat my words but this all so comes from a family ( my father ) that has owned a transmission shop for the past 52 years . I am sorry to say this mate but you dont have a clue what you are talking about .


Lee

 :)

I disagree. While being extremely rare, I believe it does exist.

I find that I am mediocre/slightly-above-average at both.   :P

If you are too good, then people expect things.

maybe he was referring to himself and thats why him and 10101011 are having a difference of opinions you could call it?

I just put my 2 cents in on that one comment. I'm not part of this thread really other than that. :)

my 2 cents is that my old boss from years ago was very good at both as well.  :)

Update of how you now call me a mechanic not a technician now. I'm not one for swaping  parts without verifing but This car is my exception! I just swapped a brand new hpfp with low pressure sensor and high pressure sensor and now change.
So
o2 sensor
lpfp
hpfp/follower and check lobe, no damage
pcv whole system including check valve
ecu swapped out just to say I did
are all replaced!
I smoked tested the car, applied pressure to the system, checked every check valve, high pressure follows spec. Low pressure follows spec. all live data adds up, iat, coolant temp, calculated egt ect. No leaks, no kinks in the fuel lines. I called and made sure the parts were oem part numbers matching my vin as in 08 they changed some things on my engine.

Shit, this only leave fuel injectors and the fuel pump module, or this rear main seal
which I'm doubting the rear main seal because it would effect my idle trims= 2% at the moment. Plus I sprayed brake cleaner/map gas and it didn't seam to cause anything.

I'm thinking everything through!
only concerns I have is block 93 shows +9 and 94 shows 26, I don't know off the top of my head what these should be. I know on an rs6 you want block 93 showing 0.

So, what shall my next move be?

Thats not a mechanic , that is being a Grease Monkey parts changer . Wow you have wasted a lot of time and money on a simple fix .

WAIT, 01011001 Lee or whatever your name is, you say simple fix, I agree. The difference between you and I
is that I am not sure whats wrong with the car, you on the other hand seem to be. So what is it, please just
name one part that has failed and is his problem. Since somehow my experience has come in to question I would
like to start by saying my first year with vw was 1998, before that I worked at a euro shop and a dodge dealer, i stayed
with vw till 2008 when I opened my own shop, since then I have been doing this for myself own my own.

Now I will continue to try and help this man, and you can do whatever you want...

   

You still have a lot to learn .  Ha ha ha ha ha . You are one funny little man . Ha ha ha ha

Grease monkey or whatever you call me I still haven't given up. Actually every part was a well educated guess. It wasn't just swap this swap that. If data lines up it lines up. You explain how you would tackle this problem? This isn't a pissing contest. This is information to help people and help me. I'm not one to ask for help answers when it comes to fixing cars. This one just has me whipped.

Quick question for the Audi pros, when you give the car gas, and pedal position does the crank case/ oil pan go deeper into a vaccum?
In my reading this isn't the case. So this is why my theoretical thinking says rear main seal is fine. Also the fact I idle perfectly with once again 2% trim. Now if you guys are so educated on Audi's which I believe you guys are. Why hasn't this been solved with the very detailed info I've given?

At any pedal position*

Ok . After driving 5 miles or so i need readings from MVB 32 , 93 , 106 , 15 and 115  from Vag-com . DO NOT  erase the fault code before you look at the MVB ( MESSURED VALUE  BLOCKS ). 

BY ERASING the DTC ( fault codes ) you will reset all learned values ( fuel trims , boost learning curves , cam shaft crankshaft corralation correction  and many others ) . I am payed a lot of money every day for my diagnostic skills with Audi and VW  .  After you get screen shots of the MVB I REQUESTED i will be able to tell you what is wrong .

Transmission gasket / block spacer / starter indexer, whatever you call it. It's not airtight but it's another obstacle.

You seem intent on proving that nobody has a clue, and you do. I've probably forgot more about MED9 than you'll ever know.

You're also a dick.

Dear ,Gman86

Yup that is me ...." a dick " . You have  shown eveyone you dont have a clue on how an internal combustion engine works and how the rest of the subsystems of an engine work  . You are a Silly little man .  ;D

How have I shown that? The only thing demonstrated on here is that you're a dick who spends his life "replacing rear seals". You've not offered any "tuning" advice, just mechanical advice. You type like a fucking spastic as well, so retain your "silly little man" comments for yourself.

DEAR , Gman86 ( Sir Shit Pickle )

 Will you please shut up ?!?!! 

Facts :
1.  I am a GIANT a$$hole / D!CKHEAD  that knows a lot more about engines than you do and I have shitty typing skilling because I am fixing cars all day .
 
 2. You are an idiot  !

3. I am here on this forum to learn and to share my wealth of mechanical knowledge . Just because i have not helped with " tuning " does not mean I can not contribute to this community . 

4. This thread is about a person having a mechanical issue with an ENGINE in which you have no experience with . Please be quiet and walk away little boy.

No you don't. You're a fitter at best.


You know fuck all about tuning yet come in here with your preschool style of writing and slate other folk whom you have zero knowledge of their background or knowledge. Because someone disagrees with you, you say they are "a silly little man" and "don't have a clue"


I have FAR more experience of this engine and management system than your amateur spanner monkey paws will ever dream to see. Being a cunt doesn't make you useful, it makes you a cunt.

anyone else stop to think that since nothing else has fixed the car up to this point, that maybe he is actually right?

unless you want to keep bickering like school girls. by all means, continue on. i find it quite entertaining.

As far as I know we are waiting for the OP to supply the info that has be asked for so we can
all learn what is wrong with the car. I have decided to reserve anymore shit talking until after
the outcome. If its the rear main, it is what it is I was wrong but again considering idle trims
are what they are I doubt it.

The car has ran so many different software versions, chances are MAF scaling is off. We need to wait til the car is running again with the correct, factory, software and then diagnose.

Harry up with those measuring blocks!!!  ;D ;D

I just left the shop. Fuck! I wish I would of read this earlier so we could put this to rest!

Just in case you wondered what Lee Malo, the man who calls you "funny little man". Check attach.

Very good . You found me .

Leez a cutie.

He did not bother me, I thought it was cute that he decided to jump straight to insulting me.
He looks like he is a swimmer or rides a bike to work 3 days a week, maybe both.

He's definitely very aerodynamic looking.

Thanks guys .  ;D.
 
As for Gman , i will be waiting for you .

id hit it.

^^^^^ NOW THATS FUNNY ^^^

You would not be laughing if you knew him...  :o

Its still fucking funny .

 :-*

Sooo...

sooooo..... at this point i think its safe to assume:

1) we will never see the proper values lee is requesting.
2) gman is a douche.
3) lee may actually be right.

Fuck, you still butt hurt over the clone chat? Jesus lad, get a hold. Lee may be right, but he's also a weapon grade cunt that attacks folk because they disagree with him. You've took a dislike to me because you were owned on a thread regarding "theft".

i could give 2 fucks about you being a cunt.
my 2) was in regards to whatever that grade 6 shit you were trying pull in your previous post.

very disrespectful on a personal level.

The dick is attacking folk because they disagree with them. He's been reported to admin several times for messaging folk privately with messages. Attached is the one he decided to send to me after giving up on the public thread. He's a cunt and offers no value to the forum. I don't mind going to town on arseholes who think they're gods gift because they can change oil.

i literally only read "blah blah blah". cheers.

Similar wavelength to this moron I see. Enjoy your clone bashing.

Um D. All the above

Well I am glad to see how short lived your appreciation is.

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=10625.msg92134#msg92134

Fix your own shite car.

Pretty unhappy with this thread. :(

I was excited to see this issue get resolved.

I was just playing haha I love you all. Honestly if anybody is dum here it's me. I'm the guy who can't fix his own damn car, yet he works on other people's car? Doesn't sound right. Yet I'm very mithotical about diagnosing something and this one has thrown me for a loop. But on the last note, can we just get along? At the end of the day we share the common passion. Enjoying cars make hp. If your passion is to just make smart remarks to piss people off then please stop posting. This thread was to diagnose my car. Not diagnose every bodies feelings toward someone.

Well said KTM733 ! :-)

Damn guys, I never took any of it serious any that has been in the car biz any amount of time
should know not to give 2 fucks what someone on the internet says. KTM please post the
requested blocks. I so badly want to see Lee diag this. That is not a shot, I have already said
i will wait to judge not that my opinion should matter to anyone.

Carsinc :  :-)  lets see if my mouth is as big as my  brain  :-)  :-)   

I want to see the MVBs too

Trust me, I'm just as anxious as you are. I'm up north and don't have the car. I will be back Monday with logs. Everybody enjoy your weekends!

Are you guys ready for the logs?

I'm ----><---- this close to nuking this whole stupid thread.

It did turn in to a troll thread for a bit  :( . I am at part fault for that . 

Don't..

First log, 2000 to redline.
next log was city cruising which we hit traffic but thought I would just show you the data while we cruise. During the cruise he went wot for a second and you'll see lambda go crazy.

GREAT !! ;D . one more request , can you get me MVB 111 ?  That MVB shows the n75 adaptions .
I did notice the timing chain has stretched . 9deg is showing a worn chain or if a chain service was done wrong . The timing chain correlation should be less than 2deg if new or replaced new parts.

I believe each tooth on the cams are 8deg apart . There are 45 teeth on each cam gear and if i did the math correct i think the chain has jumped or the chain has stretched. I am not saying that is the problem with the fueling but it will be a problem in the future.

after looking at the logs it does NOT look like the rear main seal is the problem . can you get the MVB 111 and lets see the n75 adaptations  :D   

If it's adding fuel then it's drawing air or MAF scaling is out. Stock intake? Too much shit in this thread to keep track:

1) Any hardware changes?
2) Any software changes?

Charge regulation makes no difference. If it was leaking boost then it would pull fuel, not add.

Unless the leak is post MAF, pre turbo inlet (vac)

One more time guys.
1:stock everything, except intake pipe which yes could mess the mass airflow reading up but disconnecting the maf and logging it shows identical results. Will post fuel corrections with maf unplugged. Which would lead me to think leak after map sensor. I smoke tested and pressure tested to find no leaks. Will log in just a sec.

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=11089.30

On this page I posted logs with maf unplugged.

Sorry.

So not a boost leak then  ;)

Disconnect MAF and clear fault codes, then log

Also, is your intake designed for a K03 or K04 car? K04 cars have a bung just after the MAF for the DV recirc hose. It's not uncommon for those to leak and it would be a post-MAF leak.

Have you posted a pic of your engine?
Have you replaced your maf?
What intake is on the car? some of the cheap china ones, have incorrect maf housing size.
Well I say size but I kinda have always thought it was a shape thing or maf placement.

What is MVB 111 reading

For some reason it won't let me upload the picture. Either way none of the blocks were over 3% so in spec. Guys you keep worrying about the intake or maf! Do you understand what happens when you erase a code and unplug the maf? It runs off the map readings! I've covered this base already. I've even possession log with maf unplug and cleared values to show you the facts. I honestly am a little worried about the cam timing. The timing marks line up, so this means my chain has skipped a tooth/horrible slack. Yet it sets no code and runs pretty well? The cam sprocket being in time means the intake cam is off a tooth. Is it possible being off one tooth could throw off the injection time? Causing this whole thing?

So replace the chain it take 30min.

Intake and MAF are the biggest causes of additive fuel trims on boost. I didn't know if you'd cleared codes and reset adaptations, hence why I asked to. If you simple disconnect the MAF it'll run on its last learned adaptions. I'd still be keen to see the logs of the MAF disconnected and codes cleared.

Do you have a read off your ECU? I'd like to make a small tweak and see how it affects it. I'll also explain what I did.

You should disregard anything you see when disconnecting the MAF, it tells you nothing of any use.

Debug the problem you know you have first, don't introduce other stupid things.

Replacing chain and tensioner, as it's a know fact that it's bad. Once replaced, I'll update everybody.

Thanks everybody for the help

Chain doesn't stretch, just gets noisy on TFSI. It certainly doesn't affect AFR to the point where it adds fuel.

My engine is a fsi bpy, why is measuring block 93 show 9 then?

Dude at this point the seed is in your mind, pull the pump, pull hpfp, pull the cover check the rings for
the cam adjuster and replace the chain. Its not hard or expensive, while I seriously doubt it will fix
your car it will make you happier.
Then can we get back to Diag, Lee is still waiting for adpt values so he can provide the solution.

The VVT can accommodate slight variances. It's a tiny chain, any stretch would be tiny and easily compensated by the PID for the cam angle adjuster. What's important is the camshaft angle meets what the ecu expects. Log 091 to see spec and actual intake cam advance. Also, intake cam timing being out would only affect AFR if it allowed such valve overlap that you ended up blowing fresh charge out the exhaust. You'd know about that then.

Good information

I'm lost.

Nyet stated fix the problem first. How can we diagnose a problem when we have other Robles? You stated my chain is faulty. So you have to fix things before you diagnose it. What if it was? I highly doubt it but it needs to be done

Not me I did not say it was bad that was the Lee guy(who I am kinda starting to like)
I just agreed that as long as you see it as a problem it will always be a problem.
Its been like a week since you said you wanted to replace the chain, have you
still not done it?

Fuck sake. Either fix the chain or leave it. It's not the cause of this issue though. Nyet, can this thread be split.

Hey guys, I finished up the rs6 project so back to this pos a3. So I logged a decent amount today, still am not seeing what is causing this!
I performed a boost leak test today to find zero leaks. now going off what I know and what is replaced how is this possible? no leaks, everything is new, yet my trims are at 20%partial and -1% idle?

Guys it's fixed! Previous owner replaced fuel pressure sensor in the rail. Well being 08 I believe he got the wrong sensor. I ran out if road to take so I went with an 09 sensor. Trims are now at 6%. Is this a band aide or the actual cure? Loga show hpfp following requested just like it did with the faulty sensor? I'm happy with it at 6% so I'm officially done with this car. Selling it and buying an a4.