NefMoto

Hello.

I have just started calibrating my 1300cc injectors on E85. As s start im using stock 2.5" MAF. The constant "Grundanpassnungsfaktor" is the faktor i belive i must change. As a start i calculated the following: 210cc/1300cc = 0.16  ...This faktor did not work at all and the engine was running very lean. I cLibrated it manually and ended up with 0.42 as faktor. This made me abit confused. I also lowered TEMIN wich  resulted in a more stable idle. Could it be a faulty TVUB thats is the ghost here? Or is there any other maps that i have missed for caalibrating these Genetsis II 1300cc injectors. I have asked the seller to send me the injector times aswell.

Now engine runs OK but i have som issues with throttle respons at idle. The engine stalls abit when pushin pedal down fast.. (I have only been testing at idle). Maybe i shall take it out for a drive to make it adapt?

Progress made. Started the engine with stock MAF,1300cc and E85. Ended up with injectorfactor 0.31.

Now in moving over to big MAF 4" in size. But ran into som starting problems. I rescaled the MAF table and managed to start it on cold engine. But as soon as it got warn it was impossible to make it start again. It fired but not enought to make it live. I suspect that is runs lean. Now the big question is where do i find cranking enrichment on m3.8.3. Hmm with a clue? Ive seen the faktor "stargrundmenge" but what does it do?

Here's a tuning map pack I made up from some good stage 1/2/3 1.8 ME3.8 tunes.

Included is the ORI and KP, hope it helps

Nice.. looks like you had some intressting maps there aswell.... Cranking fuel constant was exactly what i was looking for :)

You also had KFBAKL.. Didnt know m3.8.3 used that map.. I thought KFWDYN.0  was accel enrinchment in m3.8.3.  ?

Runs greate now... changed MAF sensor.. it was broken lol....

Im trying to raise RPM but hmm.. cant find anything about that. I have read about it.. but cant understan one single bit of it.. no one seem to explain it well..

NMMAXF = 25
NMAXDV = 10200   

What shall i do to rev 7500rpm

81BE 6x8 in 8bit factor 40. stock value is 6800, adjust to whatever you like

NMAXF is at 76B8 in 16bit, factor 0.25. Stock is 7100 RPM.

Havefun

I have the damos but NMAXDV says 10200.. is that = 6800rpm ?

I think my bin is abit wrong offset from yours :(

Heres my ori

And it's that hard to find? especially if you have THE damos? jeeeeez

732A 6x5 8 bit factor 40: nmax block
69D0 16 bit factor 0.25 NMAXF

I don't get it what you're on about with your NMAXDV

You're welcome.

ahhh that was much better :P  I´ll just raise it. Big Thanks m8

Wich of theses are hardcut or softcut?  Becuas everytime im hitting rpm limit it fells like im running into a wall LOL....  I need that prrrrrrfft kinda rpm limit instead.. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSfyNXQnbds here i ran into 6800 limit to early.. But will flash new limit tomorrow... Think I want to live a bit near death so ill go for 7800rpm.. :P

For being a BIG ASS TURBO build car runs pretty ok now.. :)    Raised soft revlimit to 7200 hand hard to 7500rpm..

Now i want to shoot flames and gargle pop... I have read the offical "gargle pop" thread but i only found KFNWEGM...   But if I retard ign and raise fuel in the area when throtthle is closed that would give me some bangs right ?

How big is a big ass turbo?  Yes -30 spark and don't turn of fuel on closed throttle gives lot of bangs. It is anoying like hell on a daily car LOL  turned it off after a week :-)


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LoL this is not a daily driver... GT35 turbo 1300cc E85.. ITs big for a 1.8T :)   This car will be used to push the limits..

Okay how to turn on fuel when threottle closed?

ok on 1.8T that's quite big  ;D ;D
Put KFNWEGM higher as NMAX and CWSAWE to 1 and lowest lines of KFZWMN to -30.
IIRC that was enough on my car.

Johan, it is not ME7 so maybe he needs different maps.  ;)
Jim, maybe you can send Eliotroyano a message, he knows a lot about these older ecu's and he is very helpful.
Did you build the head? I think you want to rev to 9000rpm with this turbo  ;D keep us updated.

sorry.. forgot it was a M3.8

Heheh.. I have raised the revlimit to 7500rpm on a non rebuilt head... living on the edge now... Im using an eBay GT3582 journal bearing 0.63 housing.. I gett full boost around  appr.. 4800 rpm. You are correct I would like to rev more.. 9000rpm or something would be awsome.. Thats the next stage.. :P 

Right now im having trouble to dial in the fuel KFLF...  Its damn time consuming.. small small changes all the time.. Flash and test... Flash and test.. over and over.. Partial throttle is the worst :(

Btw.. Stay away from eBay Stage III clutches LOL... clutch is right now as good as an A4 paper..

Nice work done there Jim. If you find the relation between load and boost including transition points you can do it really fast. Other tip is to use KFLF map as a requested AFR/Lambda map then adjust basic fuel map to reach requested values. It will become a more intelligent mapping for the future adjustment. Indeed I assume that was Bosch idea behind adjust this old Motronic load based systems.

You found rev limit ?

Ahaa! Not sure what you mean there.. KFLF is the basic fuel map in my world? You mean that i shall try to find the relation in a spcecific area and then convert it to AFR/Lambda?  Lets say I have Lambda 1.00 in an certain area on my innovate. But in the map i have entered the value 0.879 for example.. Then i convert that to be my KFLF lambda 1.00? im not sure that would work with my injectors they are very unlinear in low rpm area so to speak.. But i might have misundertood this.

//J

I have seen something that could be but I have not tested or look for more info.


As you may notice this engines does not have a MAP sensor, also tune this ECUs without an real time emulator is a great time consuming procedure. Then as this ECUs uses LOAD (ms) as one of it basic parameters, I think that defining where in LOAD (ms) terms are some specific areas of engine operation, idle, vacuum-boost transition, max boost, etc... makes a lot easier to know what are you looking at, then you can tweak it accordingly. About AFR / Lambda, I think that this old ECUs uses KFLF as a factor map that you could relate to AFR. But I think that this factor is applied to a main fuel injection value or period that finally determins fuel injection opening time so finally AFRs. I think that this approach can help you to speed up tune process.

Giving life to this thread again.. Its been a looooong horrible winter in many ways here in Sweden. But now im back on track again.

What u say above sounds like a good idea. To calculate what factor is for a given AFR would be nice.. Right now i have simply just been adjusting adjusting again again.. Also good to mention about this is that KFLF cant be adjusted above 1.99. We ran into som problem here an need to rescale the injector constant to a driffrent offset... Thats what i could come up with.. not sure if thats the correct way to go or if i shoul adjust MAF kurve or something else..  But in my mind i make the injector constat abit higher to give more grundmenge and then rescale the whole KFLF map..

Next thing im been thinking about is to make a simple rpm cut with "ing-Dwell" set to "0" over 7500rpm.. The last two rungs will be between 7450 and 7500 taking interporlation in consideration. Would that work u think?


And Next next thing is to make it gargle and pop... I have this on my me7.5 and it bangs like hell no lol.. But where to enable overrun in M3.8.3? And where to edit minimum ign and so on.. Maybe its easier than i think.. Maybe its just to set ign to -48 in some areas and Raise fuel in KFLF in some areas? Any ideas?

Take in account that KFLF is some percentage based adjustment, then 1.99 represent +99% more fuel. That means that your main injectors constant could be really off.


Could work but test would tell us last word.


I think that overrun function in M383 is quite similar if not something simpler than ME7. Then gargle and pops should work in the same way. You should check similar functions in SA_WE (Schubabschalten/Wiedereinsetzen).

I found SW_WE and some maps are similar to me7 but i dont think my OLS file is very weel defined.. I think i am missing some maps.. Going on hunt for att better ols file..

right now im struggeling with starting the engine when hot.. There are no problems with cold start but as soon as engine gets hot i have to crank as hell to get it to start. I someone could point me to a hot start map that would be super.. I have tried to laborate with crankingfaktor butt no result..

Have you tried lowering the values in TLST.0 TLST.1 (startgrundmenge), this fixed mу hot start issues that I had with my 627cc/min bosch injectors.

As to tuning the AFR, I have approached it like you, set the injector constant, adjusted TVUB and then started to tweek KFLF (using wideband), it's a slow process but I've managed to get the car running good (daily driver). Currently I'm running ~14.7 at idle light load, ~12.5-12.0 at low boost and ~10.6-10.7 at WOT (1.5 bar boost still very rich). Having spent a lot of time tuning the AFR I've come to the conclusion that the best way to tune it is to disable O2 correction, dial in the injectors to run lambda 1 with 1.00 values in KFLF (idle, low load), than enable O2 correction and the look at KFLF as % increase in fuel like eliotroyano stated. Ofcourse it's not that easy as you have wall wetting and so on. I haven't tested if the method I outlined will work since my car is my daily driver and I haven't had free time to test.

P.S. Any one know what the map KFLFLAV - Lambdakennfeld Vorsteuerun zur Einstellung von Lambda=1 Betrieb (Lambda control field Pilot control for setting lambda = 1 operation)  does ?

Thanks for the reply i´ll look into those maps...  I actually ran into som problems when adjusting fuel with FGAT0.. My new approach is to scale the MAF according to increase in % and then lower the whole fuel map instead... The only problem (I think) is that ignition will be of..  I have to remap almost the whole damn ECU again... I started tuning with a poor MAF... My MAF brooke totally down and i bought a new MAf the everything was way of the scale :(

About the maps TLST.0 TLST.1  Should they be lowered if im having problems cranking.. Im feeling a bit lost now... Coldstart is awsome but hotstart is a nightmare..  One more problem is that after reving up the engine the idle runs very rich until its stables..

Attach your actual file, I will take a look today evening.

I´ve had good results with KFNSAM- Kennfeld Nachstartanhebung.

If you want to make a tune easier you can replace your load(ms)-values with mbar-valus. Is very  rough, but helps a lot
With original MAF, this will be about 10*Eprom (instead of 0,05).

Thanks for help I finally worked it out.. i had to raise FKSM.0 FKSM.1 about 60% lol now it start everytime..  ahhh these 1300cc makes me MAD..

Ahh intressting..  But my MAF is way of scale now i think im running a 4" tube now lol...   But one problem i have in tunerpro is that i cant edit the axis to for example 0.75.. It pops back to 1 ??

Is there any way to change the RPM axis in M3.8.3? I havent manage to adjust values individually. If i change a values the rest of the values in the axis also follows?.. annoying..

I also found a map DFVLN (Vollastkorrektur) could this be similar to LAMFA (Wot map) ?

If you scaled only the MAF  the timing will not off, however if you've scaled the load (KHFM) then timing/fueling will need to be adjusted. I assume you have scaled KHFM so you do not hit the 12.75 load limit ? Also wouldn't lowering only the fuel table lead to the car running rich on warm up , accel/deccel  enrichment and so on ?  Years ago a friend of mine had his car (1.8t agu) mapped like this and in the mornings it was overly rich.

RPM axis is defined as EPROM SUBTRACT so modifying one value will change the values before it. Now it's interesting how the ECU reads the value, if it calculates it the some way as define than all you would need to do is to modify the value you want and the ones after it to match the rpm you want. Say you want to modify the last rpm value from 6520 to 7000, you set 5D to 51 and than the value before it from 0D (now 6480) to 19 (now 6000) which returns all the previous rpms to the factory values, at least in the representation in winols, now I have not tested to see if it'll actually change them accordingly when running the car.

P.S. EPROM subtract for 8bit is calculated ->  (256 - value), so for RPM axis - (256-93) * 40 = 6520 , next value is - (256-93-13) * 40 = 6000 and so on ....

Hmm intressting i will take the text above to the next testing. I need to fix that axis..

About running rich is no problem for coldstarts im running on E85 and it seems like it needs alot to start..

I adjusted QLLM (Forward feedback factor) something*  It seems likte it improved a little bit.. But I will also try adjust TLST.. In the mid range and high load area its perfekt now.. But its very annoying to lose the idle when breaking and shifting gears..  I think im close

Hello Jim_Coupe,

I'm currently trying to tune 06A906018CJ, it is a m3.8.3 ECU with TD05-16G mitsubishi turbo.
I have dialed in the injectors 850cc siemens deka using wideband O2, scaled the maf but my current problem is the engine load.
I don't know why but my max load is 4ms and not more, regardless of MAF readings. My maf reads around 260mg/s at 1.7 bar.
Could you please tell how did you dialed the 1300cc injectors and had load that make sense?

You can scale KHFM or MAF. Most important is set fueling up after scaling. If You scaled Input, is normal that You have lower load by amount of scaling.

Yours A/F is following desired A/F on high reads of maf?

Hi Kompiesto,

Thank you for your reply.
What I have done is I the following:

1. changed grundanpassungsfactor (FGATO) and TVUB according to my injectors(SIEMENS DEKA 850cc) measuring AFR with wideband O2.
2. Scaled maf according to housing

The result is idle load apprx. 0.45 ms, WOT load 4 ms.
I have not touched KHFM. My MAF readings are not underscaled, So I don't understand why the load is low.
Could you please explain more in detail?

Thank you

Im not 100% sure because, i don't know this ecu enough, but i think, load is based on timing... if You rescale down injectors, timing goes down, and You should scale MAF up, same amount as injector scalar. I have similar ecu in one car and i am learning this ecu now. I using this method. You will need to correct the kflf map after scaling.

EDIT

I tuned car for friend. BAM injectors + K04 turbo. I scaled FEGATO down to 0.68 , KHFM down by 31%, ML HFM up by 20%. KFLF minor changes, because lambda actual, is follow reqest lambda. I maked 218hp / 320nm at 1bar.