NefMoto

Technical => Tuning => Topic started by: curamrdan on September 27, 2016, 03:38:58 PM



Title: Requested boost is not equal to requested load on light modded 1.8t 180
Post by: curamrdan on September 27, 2016, 03:38:58 PM
Hello, i found issue on particular car, 1.8T 180hp. It has just mounted some tuning parts (rebuild K03s with OEM sized billett compressor, 2.5" free flow exhaust, big FMIC, china silicone intake hose+KN open filter)
ECU tune is untouched factory 180hp. That means under WOT reguest about cca 125-130 load  and cca 0.6bar of boost entire rev range.
Problem is, on WOT at high rpm , when boost control sucessfully held 0.6bar, actual load is over 140 instead requested 120 (also g/s is equal a 210-220hp , but i think its not possible on 0.6bar k03s isnt?). And at low rpm 2000-3000 is problem opposite, actual boost match reguested 0.6bar, but load is only 110 instead requested 125.
In real that result in fluctuation of boost control.
How i can "calibrate" ecu to equalize requested boost and requested load?
Or its more the hardware problem - maf, boost sensor, boost leak(partialy tested)...?

Thank you


Title: Re: Requested boost is not equal to requested load on light modded 1.8t 180
Post by: nyet on September 27, 2016, 03:50:15 PM
The boost PID is driven by lde, not load error.


Title: Re: Requested boost is not equal to requested load on light modded 1.8t 180
Post by: curamrdan on September 27, 2016, 04:14:42 PM
Thanks, so you think adjusting just boostcontrol will solve the fluctuation, ok. And after that, may i bother with load error then or not?


Title: Re: Requested boost is not equal to requested load on light modded 1.8t 180
Post by: nyet on September 27, 2016, 04:29:21 PM
Thanks, so you think adjusting just boostcontrol will solve the fluctuation, ok. And after that, may i bother with load error then or not?

Don't worry about load error unless you are seeing slow path torque intervention.


Title: Re: Requested boost is not equal to requested load on light modded 1.8t 180
Post by: adam- on September 28, 2016, 05:32:03 AM
Logs, file?


Title: Re: Requested boost is not equal to requested load on light modded 1.8t 180
Post by: curamrdan on September 28, 2016, 01:52:08 PM
Enclosing files. Cleaned N75, fixed crushed silicone intake hose. Flashed ORI file with removed N249/N112 to have clean diag(items removed). Boost was rock stable 0.6bar. Load and boost is matching around 4000rpm, then are goes off again.
 So i flashed my first prepared file, with rised boost cca 0.9bar and some other mods.
There is a problem around 5500rpm, a instant boost drop from 0.9bar to almost base pressure(under 0.5bar). No torque/boost/maf errors on diag, no throttle cut, no heavy knocking. Request load is withing 10-20 of actual (155req vs 165act for exmaple). Injectors are heavily maxed out, partialy due weak fuel pump.
I meet similar problem some years ago(i do VW just few a year), when tuned friends 1.8t 150 , instant boost drop at high rpm, wgdc goes from 95 to cca 50-60%. No errors.

Maybe its begginers mistake, can somebody have idea for me?


Title: Re: Requested boost is not equal to requested load on light modded 1.8t 180
Post by: curamrdan on September 28, 2016, 02:09:31 PM
Enclosing factory tune (with N249+112 removed) , there you can see the unbalance i noted at the beginning of this thread clearly. No boost drop problem.

Maybe problem with higher boost is due actual load is more than specified by 10+ , so i can manipulate it by rescaling KFKHFM, right? But there is even around 20+ more difference on OEM tune(this enclosed log) and no boost drop here.


Title: Re: Requested boost is not equal to requested load on light modded 1.8t 180
Post by: nyet on September 28, 2016, 03:16:40 PM
Please post ME7Logger logs, thx.


Title: Re: Requested boost is not equal to requested load on light modded 1.8t 180
Post by: curamrdan on September 29, 2016, 02:16:49 AM
Please post ME7Logger logs, thx.

I connect by ME7logger just on first car, then on any i tried, it doesnt work, so i did not use it any more. Maybe faulty ebay cable(but works with nefmoto flasher ect), who knows.

I notieced at boost drop. Requested pressure drops, but requested load not.


Title: Re: Requested boost is not equal to requested load on light modded 1.8t 180
Post by: IamwhoIam on September 29, 2016, 03:07:13 AM
If the fuel pump is "weak", then what are you trying to achieve? Melted pistons?


Title: Re: Requested boost is not equal to requested load on light modded 1.8t 180
Post by: adam- on September 29, 2016, 03:16:32 AM
Economy.  Save fuel and that.


Title: Re: Requested boost is not equal to requested load on light modded 1.8t 180
Post by: curamrdan on September 29, 2016, 04:13:06 AM
Dont worry, im already waiting for new stronger pump, real afr creeps just to 12.5-13 afr. In meanwhile i want figure out the boost problem. Its just few sec pulls, im not worry about any damage. Please talk about boost drop, you have idea what can cause it.


Title: Re: Requested boost is not equal to requested load on light modded 1.8t 180
Post by: curamrdan on September 29, 2016, 08:23:53 AM
Tried slightly lower a boost, adjusted KFKHFM to tried match requested load(i hope it supposed to do it by this table), now almost correct at 5500-6000 = where drop happends. Also tried FFed KFMIZUOF.
The drop is only instant lowering reguested boost=> lower wgdc , but when i still hold full throttle , reguested boost+wgdc start slightly go back up.

I dont know what to try now? Disable ARMD or try to find differences in same VAG163 a factory 225bhp file?
I tuned few 210/225 car and this drop newer happends.



Title: Re: Requested boost is not equal to requested load on light modded 1.8t 180
Post by: nubcake on September 29, 2016, 08:27:23 AM
Get fuel pump replaced and only then continue investigating. "Injectors maxed" is probably your main problem. Check FR for mitibgr_w.
If it's not active in your software (I didn't check) - do a proper intake pressure test, check if MAF is good.
Get me7logger operational, it's very useful for diagnosing any problems.


Title: Re: Requested boost is not equal to requested load on light modded 1.8t 180
Post by: curamrdan on September 29, 2016, 11:58:41 AM
Get fuel pump replaced and only then continue investigating. "Injectors maxed" is probably your main problem. Check FR for mitibgr_w.
If it's not active in your software (I didn't check) - do a proper intake pressure test, check if MAF is good.
Get me7logger operational, it's very useful for diagnosing any problems.

Hope pump arrive tommorow, but i think will be on injector limit even on good fuel pump anyway.

Im not very familiar of understaning FR , but i found some similar named items in OLS damos files:

CWDMIL  = 1  (in randomly choosed 225 CB file  is 0)
KMITIBGR = 2.503% (in 225 is 13.59%)
PVMITIBGR = 0.5% (in 225 is 0.75%)

is this what you meaned?


Title: Re: Requested boost is not equal to requested load on light modded 1.8t 180
Post by: littco on September 30, 2016, 03:12:09 AM
Hope pump arrive tommorow, but i think will be on injector limit even on good fuel pump anyway.

Im not very familiar of understaning FR , but i found some similar named items in OLS damos files:

CWDMIL  = 1  (in randomly choosed 225 CB file  is 0)
KMITIBGR = 2.503% (in 225 is 13.59%)
PVMITIBGR = 0.5% (in 225 is 0.75%)

is this what you meaned?

suggest your over and under load problems are due to the KFDIMX map not being correct. Altough the compressor is still a stock size the billet wheels are hugely more effecient and can easily power upto 280bhp ( larger turbine needed though) because of this the ECU struggles.



Title: Re: Requested boost is not equal to requested load on light modded 1.8t 180
Post by: curamrdan on September 30, 2016, 04:13:33 AM
suggest your over and under load problems are due to the KFDIMX map not being correct. Altough the compressor is still a stock size the billet wheels are hugely more effecient and can easily power upto 280bhp ( larger turbine needed though) because of this the ECU struggles.

KFDMIX is driven by target boost , which is correct and stable at all rev range, just load is not matching. So as i dont know how "calibrate" boost calculation to suit true load of modified engine , i did oposite = "manipulate" load to suit boost of factory engine. Its worse way, but i want to prevent some load error issues.

I dont have personal experience with billet wheels as much, but if wheel is physicaly-design identical to factory, only have little less weight and have extendet tip, i dont expect any massive gains. All benefits are only "teoretical" to build more hype people to buy and put inside their factory turbo. My opinion. Never personaly(not internet) seen or tune 280bhp in real even on K04-23.


Title: Re: Requested boost is not equal to requested load on light modded 1.8t 180
Post by: nyet on September 30, 2016, 09:38:23 AM
If actual boost meets req boost, actual fueling meets req fueling, and fuel trims are near zero, any remaining load deviation has nothing to do with the turbos, rather, your MAF (and or VE) is calibrated wrong (or you have other assorted hardware issues - leaks, etc.).

You should probably review the s4wiki again, you're way off base.