NefMoto

Hello everybody,

I don't have a lot of experience in playing with maps, so please don't be so harsh with me... We are specialized in hardware repair on ECU's and other electronical equipment.

I have a 986 Boxster S 2001 Tiptronic, on which I changed the engine because of a IMS failure. The old engine was a 3.2l with ME7.2 ECU, the new engine is a 3.4l. The new engine has Variocam+, so I could not use the old ECU, which has no support for it. The original ECU ME7.8 for this engine could not be adapted on the car, because of too many differences regarding the other modules, and because ME7.2 has classical lambda sensors and ME7.8 has wideband lambda sensors.
So the only possibility I had was to use an intermediate ECU, ME7.8min. All was great, I managed to set up all the wires and the engine runs very smooth and there are no errors. The problem is that I have very little power. The engine load in full throttle and the spark advance are very low (max 50% and max 20grd).

With the help of Sedox Tuning I recalibrated the maps for the different size of throttle body and different engine capacity. Still no improvement. I tried to mess with KFWZ (1,2,3,4), KFZWOP (1,2,3,4), KFMIOP, KFPED, KFMSNWDK and KFMIRL but the results were pretty the same - no clear changes no matter how much I played with the values.

So I am not sure what limits the power of the engine - the load or the advance. First of all, for tests, I want to deactivate the torque monitoring, to be able to see if the problem comes from this side. As I understand from previous posts, I have to put all values of KFMIZUOF to 99.6, value for TMNSMN to -48 and value for TANSMN to -48. Please let me know if I understood correctly and please tell me any other ideas you may have.

Thanks a lot for your support!

Do you have the correct MLHFM in your file?

Thanks a lot for your reply.

I really don't know if I have correct MLHFM... How can I test this, as the ME7logger is not good for this ECU (cannot obtain a complete ECU map for my file)? But the firmware I am using is from a vehicle with the same MAF as mine.

These days I tried a lot of eprom firmware (original, not modified) from different engines with same ECU, including the Carrera 3.8l posted here on this forum, and besides some problems with communication between modules (ABS, Tiptronic) the general power of the engine remained the same. The firmware that I worked on did not rise any faults. That fact that all firmwares seems limited in the same way (doesn't matter if the communication with Tiptronic is ok or not) leads me to an assumption that it could be an unreported communication problem with Tiptronic and that keeps the engine at low torque. But it is just a supposition, I have no way to test...

Thanks again for trying to support me.

Which logging options do you have?
Can you monitor AFRs?
Got any DTCs?

Post your original and modified files, but for all I know, sedox=clueless copyshop

Hello,
Thanks for your reply.
I drove it like this some hundreds of km and no DTC at all.
I cannot monitor AFR... there is no option on tester.

With ME7logging, when I prepare the ECU and cfg files I get only a few values for monitoring.
You can find attached the file I am using now and the .ECU file from ME7logger.

The ECU is ME7.8min, HW: 0261 206 579, SW: 350598.

Thanks.

Sorry, I posted twice the original file and I could not erase it. You can find attached here the modified file.

The file from Sedox has very little difference in the power of the engine...

Do you have the original ME7.2 file from your car?

Yes, sure.

But does me7logger actually connect and work?
More parameters can actually be added by hand.

The changes are very slight. A few degrees of timing, a few points up in irl, 100 rpm increase in rev limit, etc.

Thanks for your reply. As there were just a few parameters that could be logged, I didn't try it on the car. I will try today and let you know.


Thanks for your reply. I also saw this. But I took my chances and tried to modify a lot of maps with larger amounts but the result in engine power was always the same. Also I tried a lot of other original files from different Porsche cars with the same hardware ECU and the results are the same. That is why I suppose that something is clearly limiting it and there is not a problem of tuning maps. Or at least there is a map I missed...

I tried a lot to make ME7logger work with my car. The error that I could not avoid now is:

found wrong mapping table pointer value 0x0084F2EC

I attached the original file, the .ecu file, logger config and the log file.
Please if help me with this (I know that this software is made for ME7 from VAG group, but I still hope for a solution...).

Thanks.

While a far cry from ME7L, you can use a soft called Durametric for rough logging. We have it, and it's useful to an extent.

Thanks for your reply. I have Durametric, I have also Piwis 2, but they are not useful in my case. No evidence of what is limiting my engine...

Being NA, I suppose your options are throttle plate position, cam position, and ignition timing. Do you have a properly running example to compare to? Monitor AFR with an external wideband if need be. Do you have any logs to share? No faults in the TCU? Could be the mismatch between ecu's is interfering with the tip function like you mentioned.

Thanks a lot for your suggestions.

Throttle plate is moving from a few percents to 99% when I try to accelerate hard (monitored with a tester). But between about 60% and 99% you cannot feel any difference in acceleration, only the sound of the engine changes from supplemental air... So I think that the throttle position is not the issue.

Cam position may be a problem, but monitored seems ok and the software from ME7 is very sensible at cam problems and gives DTC at every slight mismatch. There is no DTC...

Ignition timing is a problem. No matter how much acceleration I try, it never goes over 20 degrees. Also the torque never exceeds 50%. I don't know if the torque is limited by ignition timing or the ignition timing is low because of a limitation in torque. I try to raise gradually the ignition timing maps until over 20%. There is no modification in engine functionality at all... I did not fully understand the procedure of disabling torque monitor in ME7 with winols, so I did not took my chances to play with it.

I don't have a comparable car to test. And the combination of engine and ECU I have is not installed on any Porsche...

I don't have a wideband monitor for AFR. I consider buying one. But at the official annual emission test I made these days, everything seems normal.

The problem of mismatch between engine ECU and the tip ECU is plausible. My guess is that the engine ECU is understanding to keep low torque like when it is changing gears. But I really don't know how to investigate, I have no idea where are the maps and switches in winols to try to test disabling the limiting functions of the tip over engine. There is no DTC on the tip also.

Thanks again for support.

have you asked sedox?

BTW, as others have noted, this is a pretty rudimentary file, I hope you didn't pay more than $150-200 for it....

Hello and thanks for reply.

Sedox tried more than one version of file. But no matter how much they tried to change values in maps, the power of the engine remained pretty the same.They said, like I also supposed, that something is limiting the engine at torque 50% and/or timing 20grd. But they could not tell me what...

I'm not sure how to approach this without proper logging. :(
When you say "torque limited at 50%" - where did you see that?
Generic OBD PID?

I got experience with these engines.
You need to look ant the timming and afr. durametric will tell you what yo need to know.
Timming usally runs around 6 degrres at idle, and it will  40 degress off idle til cruising, up to abut 40 load, when you get into it, it will pull the timming back to 17 to 25 degrees, depending how hot it is outside. The varicam plus+ will switch off the low lobe to the high depending on the load, the cams advance around 1800 rpm, and it will  pull the cam adavance out at 5300rpm. Afrs run 14.7 at idle and cruise, and wide open they are tunned to 12.5, it run best at 12.8- 13 afr. The ecu runs closed loop also all the time. 

Hello DRD, nubcake and all others,
I managed to get some logs from durametric. I attach two logs, taken on a trip in town. These logs are different, as I cannot log a lot of parameters at once. Hope to be of help, if anybody needs different parameters please let me know, I will try to find them with durametric. I could not measure afr, as it is not an option of durametric for this ecu.
I was wrong about the ignition angle, it goes well above 20 grd. But the torque is very low and I think the air is low also.

Please help me with a suggestion if you can.

I would recommend posting your logs with Megalogviewer (from EFIanalytics.com) It's only about $70 and it's the best money you'll ever spend

Here are scatterplots of your first and second logs

From what I can see, you not getting the engine torque, for 99% percent pedal, throttle plate is plate opened 99%, engine torque is half, 50% at 4800 rpms, should be 90-95%. Some cars had a psm, 996-997 had it,Porsche stability magagment, that control torque map. Take a look at the ecu, and see id there are inputs for a psm signal on it.

Thanks for your reply.

Yes, I have PSM. It is connected with the engine ECU only through CAN, no special wire connection. I drove today with PSM disabled through dashboard switch, but there was no difference. So I think PSM is not the problem.
As I know for this ECU, torque is directly related to air mass. Do you have some values of the air mass from a equivalent engine to compare?


Thanks for suggestion. I will consider buying this software next week.

I will data log some maf valves you, and post them. I know off hand, it idles around 16 grams , and have seen 100+ grams when on the throttle.

Thanks. Important informations...

Hello all,

I got new logs for my car. One is AFR - Lambda, and one is camshafts.

Please tell me if there si something not ok with these...

Thanks.

Hello all,

After a lot of work I finally sorted out the low power problem.

There was not enough air for the engine. And the cause was that the Variocam Plus was not working well, the valve lift is not enabled in the software version I have. Now I am trying to find a method of enabling it.
I started a new topic for this at
http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=12564.0title=

If someone can help I thank him in advance!