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Noob Zone => Noob Questions => Topic started by: bigrig on October 10, 2017, 10:54:51 AM



Title: Golf 4 TDI Starting problem
Post by: bigrig on October 10, 2017, 10:54:51 AM
Hey guys, basically I want to know how to get the injectors to inject fuel under 200 RPM or so, because the engine barely starts otherwise due to worn starter not being able to spin it past the 200RPM.
Do i need to flash the ECU or something else? Sorry for bad english, not first language.
Thanks!


Title: Re: Golf 4 TDI Starting problem
Post by: jochen_145 on October 11, 2017, 08:51:05 AM
There is a "start IQ map", depending on engine Speed and engine temp. This map needs to be modifired and been flashed into ECU

Lable is "mrwSTMGRKF"


Title: Re: Golf 4 TDI Starting problem
Post by: gman86 on October 11, 2017, 11:40:38 PM
Hey guys, basically I want to know how to get the injectors to inject fuel under 200 RPM or so, because the engine barely starts otherwise due to worn starter not being able to spin it past the 200RPM.
Do i need to flash the ECU or something else? Sorry for bad english, not first language.
Thanks!

Why do people want to try and map around hardware faults instead of fixing them?


Title: Re: Golf 4 TDI Starting problem
Post by: jochen_145 on October 12, 2017, 01:36:21 AM
Because OEM did it the same way...


Title: Re: Re: Golf 4 TDI Starting problem
Post by: THANAS on October 12, 2017, 04:48:47 AM
Because OEM did it the same way...
Except they didn't ship the cars with faulty starters.   


Title: Re: Golf 4 TDI Starting problem
Post by: gman86 on October 13, 2017, 03:16:48 AM
Because OEM did it the same way...

The OEM calibrations allow for tolerances that exist across the power train. If you went to VW with a faulty starter I'm willing to bet a lot of money part of the fix won't be software.


Title: Re: Golf 4 TDI Starting problem
Post by: jochen_145 on October 13, 2017, 03:28:40 PM
depenting on the definition of "faulty starter"..

If a "faulty starter" is a one, who still reves but isn´t able to reatch expacted engine speed to start, Audi fixed this problem by a officel update in case of a customer complaint.

And yes, this update includes a change of the mrwSTMGRKF-map..



Sorry, you lost a lot of money.. ;)


Title: Re: Golf 4 TDI Starting problem
Post by: gman86 on October 14, 2017, 01:30:13 AM
depenting on the definition of "faulty starter"..

If a "faulty starter" is a one, who still reves but isn´t able to reatch expacted engine speed to start, Audi fixed this problem by a officel update in case of a customer complaint.

And yes, this update includes a change of the mrwSTMGRKF-map..



Sorry, you lost a lot of money.. ;)

So they did that to fix worn starters? Don't talk shit.


Title: Re: Golf 4 TDI Starting problem
Post by: _nameless on October 14, 2017, 05:48:02 AM
So they did that to fix worn starters? Don't talk shit.
then dont be a dickhead. op asked a simple question with a known history and you act like its the wrong way to fix when the oem made a software update fixing the issue in the same way. try helping and not being a dick


Title: Re: Golf 4 TDI Starting problem
Post by: 4ringpieces on October 14, 2017, 08:18:57 AM
Oem only did this update on very few known problem cars.

Not every diesel.
If you can't get it to spin 240rpm with the injector loom unplugged, simply fix the hardware, I've seen Earth straps go bad, connections go bad starter and battery's.

Experience is that hot start is a temp mod, eventually the starter/battery will die.
If the engine chugs to life when starting it's not kind on it


Title: Re: Golf 4 TDI Starting problem
Post by: gman86 on October 15, 2017, 01:27:04 AM
then dont be a dickhead. op asked a simple question with a known history and you act like its the wrong way to fix when the oem made a software update fixing the issue in the same way. try helping and not being a dick

A known history? OP came in and said he was trying to calibrate round a "worn" starter. I said people should fix hardware issues than trying to map round them. He then tried to mitigate this with some shit about Audi releasing a SW update for a clear incompatibility between a certain piece of hardware and software - not faulty or worn hardware. The only dickhead is someone who doesn't read the full thread and grasp the context - you.


Title: Re: Golf 4 TDI Starting problem
Post by: jochen_145 on October 15, 2017, 01:55:45 AM
Sorry, but yes, it is a known history:

If pinion starter isn´t able to run up 250rpm, he isn´t dead at all, so Audi update software in case of a customer ishue.
Normal way, if the workshop hightest topic is to change parts and earn a lot money:

1) check engine speed when cranking
2) update software

3) if this doesn´t help, chance battery
4) if this doesn´t helg chance starter

Actual ECU start injection as soon as they recognice any engine speed at the crankshaft, so nothing against the update of mrwSTMGRKF.

Btw.: if engine speed is too low, PD will not reach minimum open-pressure, so if crank speed is still to low, engine again will not start. The limition of mrwSTMGRKF was just chanced by soot in NEFZ..


Title: Re: Golf 4 TDI Starting problem
Post by: _nameless on October 15, 2017, 02:48:06 AM
A known history? OP came in and said he was trying to calibrate round a "worn" starter. I said people should fix hardware issues than trying to map round them. He then tried to mitigate this with some shit about Audi releasing a SW update for a clear incompatibility between a certain piece of hardware and software - not faulty or worn hardware. The only dickhead is someone who doesn't read the full thread and grasp the context - you.
Members like you make this page suck for new people. Pass judgement when it wasnt asked. You have nothing to add to the subject ? Pissoff and keep your negitive mouth shut. Dickhead.


Title: Re: Golf 4 TDI Starting problem
Post by: gman86 on October 15, 2017, 03:59:06 AM
Sorry, but yes, it is a known history:

If pinion starter isn´t able to run up 250rpm, he isn´t dead at all, so Audi update software in case of a customer ishue.
Normal way, if the workshop hightest topic is to change parts and earn a lot money:

1) check engine speed when cranking
2) update software

3) if this doesn´t help, chance battery
4) if this doesn´t helg chance starter

Actual ECU start injection as soon as they recognice any engine speed at the crankshaft, so nothing against the update of mrwSTMGRKF.

Btw.: if engine speed is too low, PD will not reach minimum open-pressure, so if crank speed is still to low, engine again will not start. The limition of mrwSTMGRKF was just chanced by soot in NEFZ..

You said the starter was worn. To say something is worn suggests it needs replaced. That's the end of that discussion.


Title: Re: Golf 4 TDI Starting problem
Post by: gman86 on October 15, 2017, 04:02:35 AM
Members like you make this page suck for new people. Pass judgement when it wasnt asked. You have nothing to add to the subject ? Pissoff and keep your negitive mouth shut. Dickhead.

The irony is strong with this fucking mouth breather. You've not exactly contributed to the OPs issue yourself, just came swinging in with personal insults like an excited autistic arsehole with a faulty keyboard.

If making folk think twice about calibrating round "worn" hardware is being judgemental, then strap me on a wig and give me a hammer.


Title: Re: Golf 4 TDI Starting problem
Post by: _nameless on October 15, 2017, 04:20:14 AM
Cool story bro. You win the internets.


Title: Re: Golf 4 TDI Starting problem
Post by: prj on October 16, 2017, 12:42:19 AM
If making folk think twice about calibrating round "worn" hardware is being judgemental, then strap me on a wig and give me a hammer.
Except VAG themselves thought it was a failure in the software and released a software update for a few cars doing exactly what the OP is asking for.
This problem of not injecting any fuel below an arbitary RPM was ONLY done on manual gearbox cars to protect the DMF from excessive kick. But the measure was so strict and unnecessary that it was reversed by the OEM on a number of vehicles
Very easy to see - just compare auto gearbox software with manual, and you will see that the autobox software does not have this problem. There injection starts as soon as enough pressure is built up in the injector.
Even more than that, this is present only when the coolant temperature is above 60C IIRC. If it is colder, it is not present, so cold start is fine (which takes a lot more energy from the starter), but hot start is a problem.

Truth be told, you have no idea what you are on about. You never drove the vehicle in question nor have you ever seen inside any of these ECU's or experienced the issue.
It would be wise to learn from your mistake and shut up.

OP could probably just upgrade the software using ODIS and the same thing would be done by the OEM.