NefMoto

Hi all.
I have an AUM 1.8t enngine 150hp (stock ) but modified with k04-023 turbo , 386cc injectors from BAM engine , big MAF from BAM engine too , FMIC.
After many many KFZW modifications (and now the values on high load are very low), after replace sparks (for the moment pfr6q but next days will put bkr7e) , replace coils , put 98-99 fuel, i can not escape detonations in particular at WOT on higher boost and high LOAD.
I attach one of my logs and my kflbts and kfzw.
Please give me your advices.
MAYBE must increase fuel with kflbts (it works from TABGBTS = 400) and rescale it for my new LOAD 180-191%?
Many thanks in advace.

I think it's hardware related.
Tune seems pretty subtle,
shouldn't be pulling timing at that load/timing/AFR/IAT

Will try to change sparks with colder.
Sparks looks ok when i check them.
I don't have oil smoke on the exhaust and i don't have oil consumption so i think is not the pistons or pistons rings.
Can be injectors ? i bought them new with the same oem code for audi s3 BAM engine but they was cheper at the shop , they are bosch but made in brasil.

I was thinking more the lines of knock sensors.

when most knocks are on 2,3 cylinders you can try swap injectors from 2,3 cylinder to 1,4 and you will see difference if it was injectors

this was first thing what i does 3 days ago
same things , same retard mostly with higher value on cylinder 2 but is not a rule
sparks was changed and the coils too

This is interesting, I can't help you, but not so long ago I rambled a lot about ignition retard on my ME7.9.10, essentially on stock maps. Also pulls up to 7 degrees, but for me mostly on cyl. 1, then 4, a bit on 3, while cyl. 2 stayed at 0. Plus huge excessive stock (requested, not measured) fuel (down to 10.0 AFR in many places). I have since then replaced spark plugs and all engine mounts, but have not done any proper logs since then. I am also puzzled, mostly because my tune is stock.

Made fresh logs on my car, I mean, look at this, stock ignition, fuel, boost maps, and on top of things running on E20 (injection tuned for it). I would also like to know the answer to your problem, maybe it can fix mine, if there is one. (I am thinking if I should check if the knock sensor is fastened properly).

-6 time ago a moment I do not see it as "bad"

But it shouldn't pull any timing on stock timing maps on E20.
It would be acceptable on schmedium octane pump gas.

1.csv was made in the morning wthout detonation without wrkma correction
2.cs with detonation and correction
 between 1 and 2 logs car had a new sparks bkr7e (old was pfr6q)

ANY suggestions, WHY?

Precisely, and fuel does not seem to affect the results at all, I get the same crap on 95, Shell V-Power 98, and now E20. For the lack of a better idea, I actually ordered a new knock sensor, they are not expensive, and will see if that changes anything.

What log is with what plug?


I had a similar issue.
Took both sensors off, cleaned mating surfaces and torqued to spec.
Solved my problem.
But yeah, new sensors are cheap might as well replace them while your at it.

thanks for all your answers
i'll try to change the knock sensors but i think this is not my problem
if i study my logs i saw i have an overboost and this affect my ignition and ignition make a correction and my boost and load decrease under the reuested
all maps are set up like in picture attached

This doesn't just "affect ignition".

Your'e asking for knock if you boost that much. That spells trouble.

Get that sorted first.

Just had a glance at your logs.

You're massively overboosting @ 3000rpm.
So much so you're actually beyond the MAP limits,
who knows what boost peaks at.
And funny enough, your 6° timing pull starts at around there.

Get boost sorted first, then worry about knock limitations.

It's my own fault. Should have looked at logs first,
but not optimal on my phone with only Google sheets.

Yes and thanks for this reaseon i asked about my overboost because there is the problem. I tried to reduce duty cycle at the last line between 2000 and 3500 rpm but the overboost it the same. Any ideea if you look at my printscreen maps where is the problem and why it make oveeboost (this is clear produce knock/retard). Thanks again for yours advices

In IMX? how did you determine what to do if you didn't even log the PID variables?

Thanks nyet but there i modified few days ago but without result.
My overboost exist and are the same 1.5 bar.
Please see modifications in attached picture for n75

Today with bkr7e sparks and 99 ron fuel (retard is -6) the result is worst than pfr6k sparks and 95 ron fuel ( retard maximum -3)

what gap did you set the spark plugs?

I think this is not about sparks / coils...
I have similar problem on AGU me 3.8. Timing retardation after 4700rpm. I´ve replaced coils (R8 red) and sparks and no change... Replaced knock sensor not helped too.

so ...

Log the PID variables. Pull more IMX.

New kfldimx adjustment on last line like in attached picture and see the logg attachement too
Overboost are the same 1.55 bar but no retard
Do you think make some changes in KFLDRL for escape the big overboost because in IMX i am to the limit
I'll make a new log tommorow with the same setup and will see if NO retard will keeping or was a coincidence.

Many thanks again to all.

Please make some logs of boost PID, it'll make everything less painful.

But try and adding a little D.

Your IMX looks like crap. You have a gigantic hump in it.

Your columns should all be monotonically increasing.

Also, why are you not logging I and i max

new log again with retard , added PID variables

Did you get rid of the lump or not.

Your i limit should be around 60ish (post DRL, you may have to back calculate).

Also MAKE YOUR DAMN COLUMNS MONOTONICALLY INCREASING

Thanks nyet!
I found something - i think my overboost is created from KFDLULS because is setted 1125 to all points
What do you think?

No.

Are you actually reading anything I'm writing?

I wrote all!

excuse my english, i read all what you wrote

I decrease last 2 lines from imx at value 60 between 1750 and 3500 rpm and my overboost still exist and the retard too

What is your i limit right before "overboost"?

Did you make the columns monotonically increasing?

Post logs

i attched my last log with last 2 lines decreased for n75 (on the mechanical gauge boost decreased at 1.4 bar but on log remaining at maximum limit 1.543)
today will put new kfldimx map like attached picture

Your drl is mapping 62 to 80

this is my drl

Can't check logs, on about 10kb/sec but you've mentioned KFZW tweaks but did you change the basics like KRKTE/MLHFM? Did you check anything in ZUESZ that may be affected with anything changed there?

All pointless until he fixes his boost control.

Yes, i know.

Unless you modify that map, what pre-lin wgdc would be required to get 60 post-lin wgdc?

Hi again. I made all calibration for maf and injectors. I don' make any cbanges in mlhfm and zuesz. Must i do? Yestarday i go from my town 300km and i don't modify anything in imx because i left the car works like before .when arrive in town after 3 days i'll make the modification.thanks again to all

Sorry i told i not modified mlhfm but i did. For Maf i modified all of these KFLDHBN - LDR altitude limitation (maximum pressure ratio)
MLHFM - Linearization of MAF voltage
MLOFS - Linearization of MAF voltage minus MLOFS
KFMLDMN - ML: threshod for B_minflr diagnosis HFM/HLM
MLMAX - Maximaler Luftfluß für die Lastberechnung nach SAE J1979
KFMLDMX - ML: threshold for B_maxflr diagnosis HFM/HLM
KFKHFM - Correction map for MAF

Please answer the question.

I think only the wastegate nut adjustment if i understood the question.

No. That is not at all what the question was. Look at your DRL. To get 60% post-lin wgdc what should the pre-lin WGDC be?

Do you know what post-lin and pre-lin are?

I think only the wastegate nut adjustment if i understood the question.

Sorry for repatly ppsted but i jave a bad conection here.
Nyet sorry for disapoint you but for the moment i don't know what is pre and post lean but will learn
For this eeason i'm here.

Sorry for repety posted but i jave a bad connection here.
Nyet sorry for dissapoint you but for the moment i don't know what is pre and post lean but will learn
For this reason i'm here in this forum

after other and other modification i have this result with an error p1555- maximum charge limit eceeded
my duty cycle not follow IMX
please see the attachements

IF i modify KFDLULS it is enought?

I limit is following IMX -> DRL perfectly.

I have no idea why you keep ignoring me, but no, KFDLULS as NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS

I don't ignore you NYET but for the moment it is all what i can do with my software and all i understand about PID and IMX and DRL.
I study continously and i make little modification every day.

Question: How are IMX and DRL combined to get the resulting I-limit result?

i understand like these:
-imx is setup of n75 duty cycle where i want to go my boost
-drl is after boost made and is a fine tuning to linearisation the duty cycle

the corelation between them i try to understand and hope it is like next : if boost not meet after imx ecu apply drl

No. That isn't what IMX does. It limits the result of integrator windup in the I portion of the PID. In the case of spool, when both P and D approach zero, the main contribution to pre-lin wgdc is IMX, since the integrator is fully wound up


No, it is hardly fine tuning. If you look at the input (pre-lin wgdc) and the output (actual wgdc), you can see they can be very very different.


No. DRL *always* transforms the result of the PID from pre-lin wgdc to post-lin wgdc.

THANKS YOU NYET!

I modified drl for a few values after i modified IRL too and now the overboost is not so much in that area of rpm.
I must reduce again but for the moment i have other problem.
I reduced the iginition timing at the last line in KFZW to see where i don't have knock.
After 100 km after wrote the new file on my ecu with new modifications i received next error.
17511 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Heating; B1 S1
            P1103 - 35-00 - Performance too Low

I clear the code and not apper again agter 70 km run today.
Can be from too low timing or my first lambda sensor is broken?

Hi again
What do you think about my new log?
I have a problem at 4550 rpm where the timing iginition drop very fast and very low , and i don't understand why because not respect the KFZW map , not have a boost decrease , not retards.
Please , other question about calculation of torque and hp in ECU xploat, what error margin they have?
Many thanks in advance.

Pull some more IMX

Also:

so you tell me that high drop of ignition is from the boost problem again and i must to decrease other imx values (and modify the dlr too) at the last line from map

wnwise is not boost.

i know wnwise is intake ignition angel but it must follow  kfzw i think , correct because b_mibeg is not 1 only b_lr is active
so if you have any sugestion please tell me

Hint: There are two timing maps.

wnwise has nothing to do with ignition

Did you even bother reading this?

https://s4wiki.com/wiki/Tuning#Base_timing_maps

YES i wrote WIKi about timing
I modified very much my KFZW
wkrma     is 0 for all lines in log so not influence the timing
KFZW2 is higher than KFZW every points in maps

Last log with some kfzw points increased for rpm > 4500 and load = 185
I don't know how interpret the pid variables but will try to understand

Are you sure?

VERY sure

That looks like OPT not ZW2

did you copy OPT over?

if so, thats not good

if not, your def is wrong.

Hi Nyet.
Like i wrote at the start of post i use a BAM 225hp file for my AUQ 180hp engine with k04 and maf and injectors from BAM.
BAM file had a very high timing advance in KFZW and for it (KFZW , not for KFZW2) i used my old values from AUQ file.
But for KFZW2 i don't copied , it is stock.

I use tuner pro with "8N0906018H  0004" found on nefmoto and this "8n0906018h 0004.xdf" found on nefmoto too.

Perhaps KFZW2 isn't used in that file, and DZWNWSUE is insted?

DZWNWSUE is like this

Nyet please can you tell me if it is right what i found in my log about kfzw and kfzw2.
I made lines in file with yellow where i think ecu follow kfzw2 with vvt active (fnwue is aproximatly 1 and wnwise is aproximatly 22 too) and with blue where ecu follow kfzw without vvt (fnwue is aproximatly 0 and wnwise is aproximatly 0 too)
Thanks again

wnwise is really messed up in that log.

who can influence wnwise in that mode??
it is much better if i disable vvt and works only with kfzw?

That is described in BOTH the s4wiki and immediately obvious from the FR :/

In any case, I'd try to log the output of kfzw2 first.

I dont think you have the right map location for it.

Also, why is wnwise messed up in that log?

KFZW2 had right address and right values for BAm engine (i tested in 4 different ecu files)
i told you my KFZW is modified by me with AUQ values and at last 3 lines with my values decreased because befor 4 days ago i don't know in this actual file vvt is activate
i try to work with my kfzw2 to decrease values for last 3 lines and if will have retards and sa my vvt not works ok will deactivate vvt

about wnwise i don't understand your question (messed) maybe my english is very bad , do you want to tell about values of wnwise from log or what it make it works with error?

Tested it how? It clearly isn't working right.

1) the values in the "stock" KFZW2 make no sense
2) the results of your logs do not follow the values in your KFZW2


Of course it is. You are seeing wnwise activity


Why on earth would you expect that to work when the output doesn't follow what you think is KFZW2 in the first place?


I see zero reason to deactivate vtt.




You dont see anything wrong with this graph of wnwise?

Literally NOTHING you have been posting makes any sense, from start to finish.

thanks again.
about wnwise from last log it is my fault because i imported the csv in excel and all values are wrong with decimal points moved with one number
the corect log is like this and wnwise not wrong

about kfzw2 , if it is not followed , my ecu what follow before deactivate vvt and change timing to follow kfzw , i don't find any explanation , maybe my solenoid is defective?

No. The path from KFZW2 to timing is not hardware related.

Again, how did you "prove" your KFZW2 location is correct?

I'm getting tired of repeating my self yet again.

Have you found anything out. I am having some knock issues too. I am starting to think it’s a hardware issue. Do you have any info on vine analysis for a failed harmonic balancer. I am tuned and I am about to put my spectrum analasys on. This car is driving me crazy,I had started my own post and it has been deleted. So sorry to hijack thread but it could possibly help you as well.

Hi again.Nyet i answer to you at tour question about kfzw2 address but i repeat.I have 4 damos and 3 different xdf and all have the same kfzw 2 values and axis.I found it directly in winols after i have verified a stock map from other type of ecu Aum to see if all axis and balues foe kfzw2 are ok.So all verification told me the kdzw2 is correct.

Until you log the output of KFZW2, it may still not be right.

The address for ZW2 seemed right when I had a quick look against one of my main files, but tons of it is darkened which winols says is this;
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/883/42017541315_c177c58415_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/271WTav)ACIFI Nef 0004 BAM File v Master (https://flic.kr/p/271WTav) by Rick B (https://www.flickr.com/photos/146155164@N03/), on Flickr

Some of it is obvious unused stuff like exhaust cam control, cyl 5 & 6, a/c etc;
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1761/42872014222_7de5f02037_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/28jshc1)KFNLLNST S3 Master v Nef 0004 (https://flic.kr/p/28jshc1) by Rick B (https://www.flickr.com/photos/146155164@N03/), on Flickr

But a lot was at torque, cams, ignition areas, pretty much what you have been on about!

I think when I put it against my stock def file LDRXN looked different too, modified slightly or a market change I'm not aware of?;
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1786/41108560250_16751a55dd_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/25CC7Lb)LDRXN Nef 0004 BAM v Master S3 File (https://flic.kr/p/25CC7Lb) by Rick B (https://www.flickr.com/photos/146155164@N03/), on Flickr

So I'm thinking that perhaps that could be a cause of these problems maybe? I'm not sure though as I don't see these things with the tools I use on a directly stock car, might be something else like hardware, but I thought it was worth a mention if you're working off other peoples files.

TODAY was a good day.
After few month i escape from my Overboost.
I discovery , who is the MOTHER of BOOST!
I wrote "discover" , because all reply from the members was ambigous.
I understend very well what is the result of this forum , YES is to LEARN yorself to tune your car after read and read and read...............thousands of topics and pages.
It is correct , bit in some cases and some situations People can show you very simply not to lose month to discover something that others have done, something like reinventing the wheel.
SO , MOTHER of BOOST is "KFLDRL".

I escaped from OVERBOOST , now will come boost fluctuation.

THANKS to my friend ALEKOS who had a lot of patience with me!

Thanks Nyet but sorry, many times, i don't understood many times your english or you not understood mine.

GREATE FORUM, MANY TINGS to LEARN!

Good metaphor :)

It is, indeed the last map in the ECU which leads to WGDC.

Yet another reason why the FR is always the first thing to consult if you have a question, not the last :)

New log after drl modified , looks D is fine but P had intervention
Sincerly i don't want to modify KFLDRQ2
Any suggestions please.
Many thanks in advance!

Still too much IMX, or just increase req boost to 21psi. How many times do I have to repeat this :/

the overboost is ok for me in this situation , the problem is the fluctuation of boost and wastegate duty cycle after 4500 - 5000 rpm

overboost is never ok. Fix it.

If your boost tracks req early on, it will continue to track better than if it spends the entire time way off, because as it gets close, the PID will destablize.

I really wish you would stop ignoring me.

I don't know why you insist "i igonore you".
It is a mistake . I'm a noob and i try to learn and i make mistakes.
SORRY

Always try to get desired and actual pressure in range with each other, that will help to overcome problems.

You shouldnt have to touch KFZW if your setup is stock. But I assume you fixed the problem already.

Cheers,

Dream

Thanks DREAM
I modify and modify and modify my drl and imx. So you and NYET told me the good tuning is without any little overboost at the begining of boost/power/torque?
Kfzw must be modified too because with higher preassure retards appear and must decrease timing ,  this was in my situation , maybe i'm wrong but now with overboost 1.5 bars i have from time to time at higher load only -2.5 only in a 200-300 rpm range.
With cold sparks was the same retard , can i tell worst because i had misfire with bkr7e (with bfr6q don't have).

OTHER BIG PROBLEMS!

1. the 95 and 100 fuel had the same retard for me in the summer
2. the file modified in the spring for "no retard" in the summer not work , retard appears and it is very high "-6.75" so i think we must have 2 setup for cold and hot times

If You changed turbo to NN, hybrid or something like that, the best solution is first check WG calibration without connected N75 and next, logging pressure at different N75 dutys. One day is needed for me to do this, but after that You have a lot of useful data to create nice IMX table. I done this twice and is better solution than guessing with IMX values.

MŚ.