NefMoto

Hey all, i'm searching all over the place to find more info about ISO14230-4 to read ECU file from the Porsche early versions (2002) or new versions with ISO15765-4
I've put togathere device itself with appropriate transrecievers but now i need to figure out how to write firmware (i mean from protocol perspective) So maybe some one can give me hing how to read/write ECU or link to documentations? TNX a lot!

The ISO14230-4 document that I have seen summarized as a text document doesn't discuss reading or writing ECUs.

The IS014230-3 document contains all of the standard protocol information for reading and writing flash memory.

Thanks for really fast reply! :)
So maybe I really need IS014230-3 (I'm totally newbie to the topic)
Do you know where I can find IS014230-3 then? Also do you know if manufacturers change Read/Wrire procedures like deviation form protocol? Right now i'm really focused on Porsche as that's our toy car :)
TNX!

Your post appeared on the site just as I was looking at what was new.  ;D

Here are some links you should check out:
http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=20.0
http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=95.0
http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=221.0

From what I have seen, the only thing different between manufactures for KWP2000 flashing are the security login seed/key calculation, and the data transfer compression method.

thanks a lot
i will need to do some reading now :)

by the way what is VAG?

Volkswagen Auto Group - Essentially VW, Audi, SKODA, SEAT which adhere closely to the main corporate standards.

So i guess Porsche would fall in that category too? or they still operate on their own?
Also small idea poped out :) since only thing i want is to read ECU (EPROM I guess) to file and then write modified file back to ECU.
Not to learn all the standards, can I just capture the HEX from device that already does that and use that portion of the HEX to initiate file read and write procedures? What do you  think?

The compression used for transferring the data to write has parts that are dependent on the previous data sent. So you will have to figure out the compression method. This is only used in the TransferData messages.

The security login system may or may not give you a different seed response each time you log in. If the response is different each time, then you will need to figure out the seed/key algorithm.

ehh sounds frustrating :(
so what do you think would be easiest way to do more or less universal flasher at least for German cars? (Mercedes, Audi, Porsche)

Buy every ECU you can think of and test your software against it. Write your software as close to the published protocols as possible.

All I can say is I thought I had a perfect flashing tool when I released it over a year ago. But I have done almost constant fixes for different ECUs since then.

hehe ECUs are expensive :) and i need to figure out how to make them run without a car :)
So far we testing on actual car.

For your own flashing tool did you use custom hardware or you used generic cables? From what I see is that its like 2 parts system, you need good hardware supporting various protocols (or essentially KL CAN  lines) and then i see most of soft flashing tools send hex codes directly to the hardware.

The NefMoto software is written to use the FTDI USB KKL OBD cables sold on eBay for $5 to $15.

If you want to support CAN then you need more expensive hardware.

i'm not familiar with those cables but my biggest guess that  they are like ELM chips?  Most likely Atmel MEGA or Aurdino + FTDI :)
so if you using pre-build cables, then all the code HEX commands to do any operations are actualy in your software and the cable is actually just a transceiver... takes your hex and delivers to K-line

We have designed our own cable, we have CAN, two K, and L line support... so we re trying to figure out the best way to build cable firmware (to support broadest modesl of cars) and then we will need to get to the software part :(

If you look on eBay for "VAG KKL Cable" you will find them. The cable is a dumb cable that has an FTDI 232R chip and some components to switch between 12v and 5v. The cable does not contain an ELM chip, and is only a "dumb" pass through cable. The NefMoto software handles all the low level details of the communication protocol itself.

Using an ELM chip will make implementing the protocol much easier, but it also prevents you from supporting any custom low level stuff that each car may need.

I was going to make my own cable, but I could not create one that could compete in price with the cheap cables you can find on eBay. Also, almost everyone already owned one of the cables from eBay already. No to mention I decided that I would rather spend time writing software than dealing with getting cables produced and shipped.

i see your point, we probably should do the same dumb cable but with CAN support. We have capacity of producing cable ot reasonable prices (not to beat Chinese manufacturer but steal reasonable price)

Actually VAG is shortened from Volkswagen AG (AktienGesellschaft).

Aktiengesellschaft (German pronunciation: [ˈaktsiənɡəzɛlʃaft]; abbreviated AG) is a German term that refers to a corporation that is limited by shares, i.e., owned by shareholders, and may be traded on a stock market.

ok LTD, Inc :) thanks for clarification