NefMoto

Hi,

I've been searching a topic about adding boost control to naturally aspirated engine based on me 7.5 or MED9 ecu, but I couldn't find any answer. I know it is possible, are there any switches to enable thing like this?

That is not possible via simple switch or populating maps.

These code and map structures for anything boost related are not compiled into the software if it is an NA Engine Project.
They are simply not there in Bosch ME7/ME9 approaches.


It might be possible to have a simple boost control using some patched in assembler code.
But usually a turbo based software is used which matches the ECU and engine calibration needs to be completely adapted to engine / charge system.

Thanks for answer, so You say that if turbocharger is added to NA engine there is a need of using piggyback ecu?

That can be a possible approach.

You could also use an external boost controller and remap current ecu calibration.

I would search for a ecu/software which is close to your engine but is turbocharged, so it has boost control and then remap it.

It might be a good idea to tell what you want to do in detail, car, engine, year.
Then others might be able to point you in the right direction.

Why not run an ME7 or MED9 from a boosted car? A couple of hours with some wiring tweaks will be infinitely more successful than dicking about with rudimentary code patches.

Thanks guys for tips, I'm thinking about adding soft turbo to R32 a3 8p, as far as I know It is still ME7. The only engine that I know is 2.7bt that has also 6 cylinders but how about firing order? Is it only about the wiring?

That has been discussed widley.

I think the best solution for R32 is boost controller and remap existing ecu.
Done this myself twice on the ME7, achieved 750 Hp with GT4094 at 2,2 Bar on ME7.

For the other car we switched to standalone ecu (Link) at probably 500 Hp.

2.7t is too far away, but thats only my guess.

hey, I am doing a na to turbo conversion with me7.5 ECU.

So my ECU soft currently does not have any boost control or cylinder charge etc maps either. So you got 2 choices as Marty said. One is to underscale the MAF , second is to disable torque calculation bollocks and make the car behave like a DBC via CWMDAPP.

I'll be doing the latter too.

Boost control probably will be done with mbc in later stages, for now I am running internal WG with 8 psi spring. I got everything ready but weather is meh but I am currently doing intercooler piping and mount. I'd say I'll be done in february depending on weather , time and mood :)

It's not the "best" solution. It's a shit solution by people who don't know better and results in screwed up part throttle.

I have boost control on VR6 and VR5 ME7.
Another thing that needs solving is throttle control - with no information about pvdk, there can't be correct throttle control.

Hehe, yes. Thatswhy i wrote in my opinion. ;)

But sure, "best" might be the wrong choice of wording here.
Maybe "fastest to goal" solution.

BTW: those cars i mentioned are for drag race, part throttle is not an issue. :)


For a street car i would prefer using ecu with software structure for charged engine.
As said, 2.7t might be a good base, but thats only a guess since im dealing little with VAG.

If it's used for dragracing then only proper solution is to fit standalone ECU, rather than try to make stock ECU do what it isn't supposed to do.
A V6 ECU will never run a VR6 engine, this is a ridiculous statement.
V6 has four camshafts and on-off NWS on intake, VR6 has two camshafts and continuous NWS on intake and exhaust for starters, never mind different number of hall sensors and so on.
Even if you don't know much about VAG, statements like this make me smh...

Well, then that's your opinion. I have no problem with that but totally disagree :)

The car in question had a DSG fitted, so standalone was no option.
It was fast and made fun, i was not missing a standalone at all. Nor was it needed to achieve the planed goals.

The other car had the standalone you mentioned, as i wrote.


Regarding your VR6/V6 Statement. You know the meaning of 'might be' and 'guess', do you? ;)

Totaly agree, that the rest does not match well.

I have no problem with "might be" and "guess", but you said you are guessing because you are "dealing little with VAG".

VAG has nothing to do with it. You don't know the difference in the architecture of an inline and a V engine.
The fundamental difference of the number of camshafts and the associated difference in sensors in OEM engine control. This is what I called you out on, because I think it's pretty sad.

Thanks for explaining your words. I appreciate that.
You can be very sure that i know these differences exactly ;)

The VR6 Engine is something special when dealing with inline and classic v engines usually.
I only had to do with it at the two mentioned private projects and it lies some years in the past.

So above, you are absolutely right, i didn't thought well before i made the misstake to adopt the thread authors suggestion. My bad :)

Now i can even accept calling it ridiculous :D

A v6 ecu will not a vr6 out from the box. But thing is with Motronic 7.5 , that its very modular , if you can get it reflashed with an inline software , you could make it work, but why not start with an 1.8t or so me7.5 then. An 1.8t ME7.5 ecu CAN be made to run vr6, you will have to adjust a boatload of maps , some custom wiring etc. Infact somebody made it run , i remember reading about it or something.

Honestly if you want it running get an ECUmaster DET3 piggyback and run it in fuel implant ( semi standalone mode) , read bout it its very good. If you want a cheap good standalone check out EasyECU about 400 euros or so.

It's really a R6 engine with slightly offset cylinders, nothing special about it.

No you absolutely could not, you have no idea what you are on about.

I am sure you can make ME7.5 as an ECU work with VR6, it just depends what kind of software / flash you got on it. Infact I've read about somebody swapping a 1.8t while retaining the stock ecu.

and yeah vr6 literally means straight engine 6 .

 :D

There is standalone which work with DSG- Ecumaster EMU Black

Thanks for the info.

But it was years ago, DSG was relative new. Nothing was available then...

Tell me why I am wrong. Hell some of those bloody things come with me7.5 from factory .. Atleast over here in th eu.. I dont know about there..

Vr6 are me7.1 or me7.1.1. No vr6 or v6 for that matter was ever me7.5 and will never run on it. It's missing hardware, pinout are slightly different and no software available for it. You're arguing a null point that you clearly don't know much about. As far as making a vr6 run on a 2.7t ecu I have done this before. You're best off keeping the wideband imo

Infact that is wrong. Some Audi TT's dsg/roadster/quattro whatever has stock ME7.5 .. so yeah.. unless the official specifications are wrong, which I do no think so. Atleast you also gave an explanation unlike some other longtime members on this forum...

I don't really care what you read, try reading a file off said car or pull the ecu from one and look for yourself. The only tt, roadsters (whatever) that are me7.5 is a 1.8t.

https://www.audiworld.com/model/tt/06/TTR%20V6%20tech.pdf

Maybe it is like you say in reality , maybe not. I know for a fact that many things differ in Audi generations from NA to EU and vice versa.

There is no "maybe"
Download and check it yourself

(https://i.imgur.com/XwPjckp.png)

I've posted 2 links now and you still say there is no possibility for it.Imma message Audi maybe just to put a final point on this "argument" I guess.

I'd wager that was wrong. The 8J 3.2 came with 0261201449 and 0261201450. Both ME7.1.1.

I'd say the onus is now on you to find an ME7.5 from a 3.2 VR6.

Only on paper or for dragracing and I say this as an EcuMaster dealer.
There is no torque interface in EcuMaster, sure it can provide a stream so the box can shift, but it shifts like crap.

All R32 engines are ME7.1 and ME7.1.1 period. Just because some random pamphlet says otherwise does not make it true.

You know what's worse than ignorance? Being ignorant of ones ignorance, that's you btw.

Nothing more to add on TT 8j and Yes there are me7.1.1 c167 and me7.1.1 st10f based ecus.

Me7.5 can not control the TT vr6 engine cause not only the ecu hardware is insufficient but the amount of changes you need to do on the wiring are extreme.

There is a member here that has installed the emu ecu and made it work with the dsg so he might respond in the next messages :).

He is actually working with the developers to make it function better then it was working before.

In my case (TT 8j ME7.1.1 st10f) ecu works fine in forced induction once you figure out what lambda setup you will need(Stereo or Mono) and do the appropriate changes for this.

A good advanced boost controller could take care of your needs or someone could implement his boost control algorithm (PRJ for example) and you could add up a N75 to your oem ecu.

I run TT 3.2 Turbo with EMU Black.
All works really well, also ESP torque interventions close throttle etc.
It is a lot easier and you can easy use extra features like egt control (and other safety features), boost by gear, tractioncontrol, LC etc
I've worked with ECUmaster on the DSG protocol and i can say it i works really well.
Not completly as perfect as on stock ecu, but for aftermarket ecu it controls DSG extremly well.
I run 3.2x sec 0/100 without launchcontrol on low boost using stock gearbox on 17bar.

Johan

ECUMaster does not have torque structure, the DSG "control" is like an infant child right now.
You are describing this a lot better than it really is in real life :)

If that is the case and the 2 papers are indeed wrong , then my bad, sorry!
But you know what is more annoying ??

"Elitists" or should I say veterans , people like you responding to 1st ever posts like : "hey please give me stage 3 + launch control now now readily made"  but when somebody asks a legitimate tuning / software question 0 answers for days and "smaller" people come in to help. I dont know I just felt like that a couple times..


If gt-innovation.de is your website thanks for writing quite detailed description about the projects you work on. Very cool !

I also messaged Audi Germany if any VR6 ever came with me7.5  in any model , but they need my full postal adress, telephone and all that jazz Lol.

On normal ecu torque is MDI x MDnorm, on EMU works the same only it has no KFMIOP etc and MDI is linear to MAP.
It not perfect but good enough to drive really well.
It does revmatch on downshift etc. only it does blip and revlimit. Motronic has better control to match rpm faster.
Of course you can't beat OEM..

As I said, not torque structure. MAP does not mean torque, far from it - needs ignition angle efficiency calculation as well.
For drag race or weekend it's fine, for normal driving car not so much.

Hey yes that`s me..

Well the response is that no..it never came out..it can be verified by half of the members of this forum so no sweat..If any existed commercially we would have rushed to crack it down much sooner..

true...
But most tuned R32T's have no good torque model anymore  ;-)

If it's tuned like shit then of course it doesn't have torque model, doesn't have part throttle and so on.
But who is asking to tune it like that?

For correct control you just need boost controller working from ps_w, and you need to modify the throttle control a little so that ECU knows what base boost is.
Then encode the base boost into the throttle flow tables. After this all is done it drives like stock.

of course, that's the best way to do it.
What i meant is that tuning a R32T is not easy and a lot of tuners mess up whole torque model.
For lot of people tuning it on EMU black is the easy way out.
Getting ME7 perfect is lot more work.
But of course perfectly calibrated ME7 will work lot better with DSG!

That's because everyone who can press % in WinOLS is a "tuner" these days. Or nah, that's too retro - swiftec is the new shit. Don't even have to understand anything.

What tf is Swiftec ? if that like ECM Titanium ?

LOL, so true :-)