NefMoto

Hey guys. I'm used to dealing with the North American B5S4, none of which have immo.

I'm trying to learn how the Euro RS4 immo (and Allroad/A6) immo works with respect to ME7.

Is there an idiots guide to interoperability? I.E flashing a non-immo image onto an ECU for a car that has immo?

I don't know of one complete guide, but there's alot of good threads which you can learn from by searching.  I believe the image, with respect to the portion of software that provides engine management, is seperate from IMMO related stuff.   The immobilzer SKC, VIN, key code etc are stored on a small EEPROM on the back of the ECU on a ME 7.1.1 ECU.   The engine management info is on another IC on the front side of the PCB.    My allroad is a ME 7.1.1 with IMMO3 and I'm using a tool from this website(ME7_95040) to read the small serial EEPROM to extract SKC and other relevant data.  To do a flash I believe traditional methods work. E.G. galleto cable, nefmoto software etc.  It MAY be necessary to know the SKC before one can flash, I'm not sure, maybe someone else can speak up on that.
   For IMMO learning, I think the Ross-tech Wiki / webpage provides some good info:
http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/Immobilizer (http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/Immobilizer)

So if I have, say, a RS4 with immo and I want to flash its ECU with a non-immo image (say mbox), what's the process?

I'm a noob and know nothing about IMMO.

I read the ross-tech page, but it doesn't really tell me what to do to switch back and forth between immo and non-immo images/ecus etc.

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=1497.0title=

Is this a good starting point?

Well, the first thing you have to do is figure out what ECU family you're working with before you even have to worry about immobilization system.   For example, a 2001-2003 S4 has a Bosch ME7.1 ECU.   My 2004 Allroad has a Bosch ME7.1.1.   You CANNOT take a .bin file from/for a ME7.1 and flash it to a ME7.1.1.   Even though both ECU's were used to run the 2.7T motor the actual ECU's (hardware) are not interchangable.
  So I would say you have to first look on your ECU or research to find out what the Bosch PN of the ECU is.  Then you can determine what files you can flash to it.  You might (or might not) be able to flash a "mbox" file to it.  Not sure. 

  What are you looking to do? Flash a stage III m-box file to your RS4?  This is all very tricky business and it's easy to brick a ECU.  I would suggest doing what I'm doing right now; buy a spare ECU and connect via a bench flash setup to practice the process.  Otherwise you may end up at the dealer shelling out thousands of dollars for a new ECU and/or for them to re-flash your ECU etc. (if you can find a dealer that's willing to do that)

is it common that this procedure does not work on a W12 master/slave configuration?

Thanks. Right now I'm trying to flash a RS4 D box car with an M Box bin... so both are 7.1, but the Dbox is euro immo.

It will not work =), you must first fix the dump of eeprom chip ST95040 (512b) or 95p08 (1024b) for cut out immo checking. Because the dump of an immobilizer chip will still be checked by ECU program, regardless of the maps set in 29f800

Serillo: thanks.

Can you be specific about what I have to change? The owner doesn't care if the immo no longer works.

Again, i'm a total noob to immos, so please be patient :)

thanks.

To disable immo, change byte 12 and 22 from 1 to 2 then update the page checksum. Setzi made a very good write up about eeprom checksums, but for practical reasons just subtract 1 from the 14th byte of memory page 1 and 2 (EEPROM is divided into 32 pages with 16 bytes per page). You can use my tool or any programmer to write eeprom back.

nyet, it seems I don't quite correct to understand you at first time. I thought that you want to flash the image to the rs4-box and put it on s4. But if you want just a flash m-box dump to RS4 ecu on Audi RS4, you no need touch immo - immo should continue to work. But then you get other problems:
1. volumetric effeciency of rs4 intake very different in comparison to S4(piping, intake manifold, head intake ports). Сorrespondingly maps of this ECUs have a different settings to achieve optimum engine performance. That's why I am suffering with flashed into allroad ecu rs4 dump on my 3.0 TT project with rs4 intake, rather than flash m-dump.
2. 551F don`t have a ignition coils checking, i don`t know about 551k and now i trying to find a description of the maps for this file and has already manually found a lot of maps in hex code.

for many cases suitable  this procedure:
Browse to the hex position 0x000012 and increment by 1. Browse to hex position 22 and increment by 1.

Now browse to 1E and minus by 1, and 2E and minus by 1.

And for example this is a cleared dump of 95040 from me7.5 ecu:

Not a problem the car will be retuned anyway.


What does ignition coil checking do?

check misfires in each cyl and set error. 551F does not have misfire checking

I was under the impression that the M-box code doesn't check or care about immo at all.. so regardless if the actual car has immo (cluster and valid EEPROM data) the car will start anyway.

I think about it this way... NA B5's didn't have IMMO.. but they all had the EEPROM chip w/ valid data as far as I know (since that is how some tuners protect their tunes).

Also I've been told that flashing an M-box on a 2002 Allroad (which has IMMO) will disable IMMO completely.. I would think it is the same way on the RS4.

Just food for thought.  That said, I'm currently trying to incorporate IMMO into my S4.... If it's not too much trouble Nye, would you be able to get your hands on the stock flash (D-box) and the matching EEPROM dump from that ECU if it's not too much trouble?

absolutely, once i get all the stuff I will post everything i find.

Bad idea using M box tune on an RS4 imo.  There are a LOT of differences.  Not just the maps, but certain functional aspects. 

Rick

Rick: thanks for the heads up. Should I be using an Fbox?

If I flash over the D image with a modified F image, but preserve the EEPROM, will the immo still work?

yes it will

what aspects? I have allroad ECU flashed by RS4 Fbox image. And all ok. But i have RS4 engine. Maybe it would be better for me to use Mbox image in my Allroad ECUbox?

Yes this should work :)

Rick

I have a tricky question myself.

Say I wanted to go back to actual immo tune, specifically one from allroad, me7.1. I have couple of ECUs but they all have foreign immo IDs. EEPROM content from original allroad ECU and ECU itself is lost.

I know how to edit EEPROM with new immo ID etc but one thing I don't know how to calculate are checksums in the EEPROM.

Anybody has anything that would calculate this for me or a place where the methodology is explained?

Edit: Found setzi's doc on checksum. Thanks.

Thread resurrection.  OK guys let me explain the problem I'm having here.

I have an A6 2.7t 6mt ecu which infinkc boot-mode forced an m-box file.
When I flash any m-box tune, i get no warning about IMMO.  This would make sense because my car is an a-box car and nyet currently believes that m-box has no actual IMMO routine in it.

However when I flash the RS4 K-box tune, IMMO definitely shuts my car off.  I'm writing all of this, because I know that infinkc did a boot-mode write of the m-box tune the first time, and I've been flashing the car since then with no problem.

So, what I think I now understand by having written all of this.
infinkc likely did not use the 95040 EEPROM reprogram.
he simply forced the car into boot-mode, which allowed the bin to be forced on to the ecu.
after the intial bin was written, the ecu runs normally, because the m-box doesn't care if immo is on the eeprom or not.
finally, when i went to the k-box tune - the EEPROM which wasn't reprogrammed yet blocked the ecu from doing anything.

does this all sound logically correct?  it took me a bit to piece this all together because i assumed the m-box's tune being on the a6 ecu implied the IMMO had been defeated at some point.  does anyone see my intial conundrum here?

for anyone that has used an a6 6mt, did you have to modify the EEPROM?  i believe the answer is now, but you did need to use boot-mode to get your first flash finished.