NefMoto

Hello guys,

I would like to make a thread of learning how to tune a stage 2 1.8t, hoping that it will also be usefull for others as it will be for me with your suggestions :D
I`ve been working for like 2 years on my 2002 Skoda Octavia MK I vRS (AUQ engine code) and i am now soo close to stage 2.
Current engine mods are:
- 76mm (3inch) turbo-back exhaust
- 550x230x63 front mounted intercooler with 63mm (2.5inch) piping
- Forge 008 diverter valve
- Deatschwerks DW65V in-tank fuel pump
- 317cc stock injectors (0280156061)
- Honda S2000 air filter + 63mm aluminium turbo intake pipe
- Ultimate delete (brake booster, N249, SAI pump, etc.)
- Stock K03S turbo
Dyno of current setup is attached.
Since i dont have stronger Forge actuator, i guess that with this setup a remap should get my car to 230-235 hp.
Ps: Stock file is attached.

Step 1:
HW: 0261207440
SW: 1037363908
SW upg.: 06A906032HN 0002
As i got bigger injectors (BAM 0280156063, 386cc) new, for a good price, i started learning the basics of me7.5 and chiptuning by adapting those.
For this adaptation i understood that there are 5 things that need to be attended:
-KRKTE (Stock: 0.10311 Modded:0.08322)
-TVUB (replaced stock values with the TT 225hp ones): 1.7413 1.1387 0.8107 0.5973 0.4427
-TEMIN (same values, no need to touch this)
-TEMINVA (same values, no need to touch this)
-FKKVS -> This needs the most attention. I`ve started from the stock ones, log (via me7logger) and correct via FKKVS fixer, modified map, log again, FKKVS fixer, modified map, etc.

I`ve also attended the following:
-N249 (please dont bash about this, i`ve read the forums  ), J299, N112, Cat disable:
->AA FF 00 30 FF F8 30 changed to AA FF 00 F0 FF FB FC (ULT SLV SLP LSHHK set to 11)

-Catalyst Heating disabled:
->FKHABMN_0: 0.8 -> 0
->FKHABMN_1: 0.8 -> 0

PS: Current file is attached.

Step 2:
I guess this is adding more power.
This is where i think i have to take it slow. I understood roughly what i need to touch in the software but i still have to learn some more.
I`ll be waiting for suggestions! If you can please guide me to have an easy approach (maybe targeting like 210hp first)


Thank you in advance for your support!

Same as other me7 community stage 2 threads here

As for hw
Useless
Huge lag with tiny turbo
Useless
Also not neccesary. Stock fp enough for a stock turbo and even for a k04

Also you do not need a tighter wg and tt225 injectors
First will give you headache with pid with no noticeable power gain but with a high egt, iat and a overspooling conditions brings you to extensive wear and cracks of turbo and manifold
Second also has no effort due to 4 bar fpr with stock ones can holds up these things well

Raise ldrxn to 165 @3000 with tapering to a 130@redline
Raise kfldhbn and kfmldmx,  play with kfzw and you're good to go,  no need for those 300hp mods with a stock turbo.

Hello, fukenbroken,
Thanks a lot for your feedback, i get your point!
My car was completely stock and everytime i`ve changed something (either broken or needing to upgrade anyway) i prefered to use "stronger" parts, so i would not limit myself to this tiny k03s.
Plan is to get GT28 in like 2 years. So because of this, i thought that oversizing all my components will make my current setup work seamlessly (although it involves a little lag, bigger costs and headaches) and will be easier to get a GT28 mounted since i will only adapt small portions of IC piping, Downpipe, etc.

After installing the 386cc injectors i`ve observed an increase in fuel consumption efficiency. Could it be real? Since i saw that KVB should be touched only if really big injectors or higher pressure FPR.

Also, regarding your tuning suggestion, shouldnt i also touch KFMIRL/KFMIOP, LAMFA ?

PS: I`ve also attached my current map, as i couldnt do it in my 1st post.

Kvb should be tuned anyway. That's the reason you've seen slightly less fuel consumption
As for iop irl yes if you're going higher ldrxn than I've posted before

I see, then i`ll try to do as you`ve suggested since i`m a newb and check how things are going.
If everything is OK i`ll aim for LDRXN = 195 (1.2-1.3 bar i guess) and also adapt the rest of maps/parameters as i start understanding more and more.
Thanks again! :-*

Hello,
While doing logs with my 2nd set of improved FKKVS values, i observed an issue that was also present with the 1st set of improved FKKVS.
At arround 210km/h, 5th gear, ~5800rpm, my car hesitates (its felt like a "brrrr" for 1-2 seconds) and then continues pulling nicely up to 240-245km/h.
After checking the logs i`ve observed "fr_w" Lambda Control parameter goes to 1.25, this is tied to high speeds/high gear and tevfakge_w going over 19 ms.
Also if i`m not wrong, and "fr_w" is actually Lambda, shouldnt it be close to 0.85 at high loads?
Can you guys please give an opinion?

I`ve attached the logs.

Thanks!

intercoorler its good and need ...
stock not enough many times IAT over 80°c stock side cooler

dw65v need because old fuel pump very old and not enough flow
and buy new one not problem buy better than stock

bigger exhaust need new WG
and good bigger injector because stock good aprox 220hp max

fr_w is lambda correction (stft) , if its going lean , things are bad. Check your req afr and actual.

Could NOLRA 7 be the cause of it? As I understood so far, this only affects long fuel trim at idle.  ???

Also, can you please tell me  the required AFR and actual AFR tags so i can check it out? i am not sure which they are.
Edit: found it
lamsbg_w         ;{AirFuelRatioDesired}              ; {Lambdasoll Begrenzung (word)}
lamsoni_w        ;{AirFuelRatioCurrent}              ; {Lambda-Istwert}

Thanks!

I just wrote the last improved FKKVS + default NOLRA 4 and things are soo messed up.
AFR goes up from 0.75 to 2 while fr_w jumps from 1 to 1.25.
While this happnes, i feel a lack of power, engine is running rough (like its limited), small pops can be heard through exhaust (like diesel pop-corn limiter).
You can hear/see these things in the below youtube videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF0V3p_S2S0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo2eLVRqCPM

At this point my mind is blown away, i am not sure if this is a software issue or some kind of mechanical one. ???
Please tell me if you guys have any ideea about whats the cause of this!

I`ve also added the FKKVS current values and loggs.

Leave FKKVS and NOLRA alone and use KFLF or HFM to tweak small areas of fuel where there are issues.  You'll find the stock table is fine.

Remember it will never follow perfectly, as long as you're not requesting 12.8 and it's giving you 15.4 it's fine.

By "stock table is fine" are you refering to FKKVS?

Hello friend,

FKKVS is map that exist for live calibration for fine-tuning the injection correction where needed and this map is used as the last map for the fueling, so leave it stock!
Do not forget the KVB in order to get a good fuel consumption feedback on your dash
As adam- said, KFLF or KFKHFM are the maps needed to add/remove fuel where needed, I prefer to use KFKHFM for MAF_ready cars or KFLF on MAFless cars
Keep NOLRA stock

But for a project like this only Injector calibration + injector lag times are needed, then the fueling will be perfect if the parts of your engine which are responsible for the load
calculation are in perfect condition. If MAF is tired, then just expect a mess!

OK, i will try to revert to stock FKKVS values.
If i have observed correctly, this issue happens if fr_w goes to 1.25 (which i dont understand why, couldnt from "Audi R4-5V T Quereinbau 132kW ME7.1 Funktionsrahment" document either), or while tevfakge_w goes over 19ms....which pulls a high value from FKKVS (like 1.26 vs 1.07 stock). ???

MAF is new, Bosch, same code. Injectors were new, Fuel pump is new, etc.
Regarding MAF, i`ve built a bigger Turbo Intake Pipe (63mm aluminium), big cone air filter but MAF housing is oem. Are those modifications having an effect (in a bad way)? With stock injectors and stock sw i had no issue.

If you removed the stock airbox, good luck getting fueling right.

When i bought the car it was totally stock and for some reason.... with the stock airbox (+new filter) it was not pulling hard, in fact it was very weak.
I tried a K&N cone filter which was laying around in my garage just to hear the DV and had a shock that the car transformed. And this is how all modifications began  ;D

So, with all the respect, i think there`s another issue right now. Lambda gets bts-ed to 0.75 and then jumps to values over 1.5 ... all of this happening at WOT, high gear, 5000+ RPM.
I`m guessing that this is triggered by something which i cannot identify.

You seem stuck on ignoring advice.

Good luck in your endeavors.

BTW your logs are useless w/o pedal position and TB angle, ECUxPlot can't filter properly, and it it hard to tell if the lambda spikes are from you coming off throttle or not. Not only that, your ill considered removal of the N249 will make it even harder to tell what is going on, since you will get all sorts of odd transient boost spikes (and accompanied lambda spikes) when you lift.

You're also not logging load or any EGT data, so it is impossible to tell what BTS is trying to do. There is literally no reason to log this few variables.

Finally, your lambda is NOT 1.5 or 1.25 for that matter.

You ignored the post where it says that is lambda control, not actual AFR (not that that is good either, but at least you won't grenade your motor).

May God help you if you get 1.5 lambda at WOT.

Well he's only running what, 0.6 bar?

I am sorry if i seem ignorant, i am just at the beginning, overwhelmed of this situation and afraid not to mess it up even more.
I couldnt log so many parameters due to the me7logger closing after few seconds. So i was logging bunches of different ones.
Only now i found about the fuse pulling trick, thanks to adam-.

I did not ignore that post, when i was saying my lambda jumps i was refering to lamsoni_w.

Today i`m going to pull that fuse and come back with a full set of logs.

I'm guessing they are all from going off throttle, and not having an N249 is going to make the behavior worse, not better. Ultimately, though, those lambda jumps aren't a bad thing, but boost spikes off throttle certainly are.

The good news is that at your boost levels, the only weird fueling behavior you are going to see due to not having an airbox is likely strange idle and cold start behavior.

Hello guys,

I went to stage 2 thanks to Adam`s help. Now everything seems fine, FKKVS was reverted to stock values.
I`m tweaking the map by myself and i found something odd while doing lots of logs:
-EGT`s(tabgbts_w) are 700 - 930 Celsius while driving normally in 5-6th gear (90-120kmh). AFR(lamsoni_w) is mainly arround 1 V, sometimes going down to 0.8 V while accelerating.
-EGT`s(tabgbts_w) get up to 1150 Celsius, near redline, while doing a 4th gear pull. Because of this, AFR goes to 0.75V and stays the (trigged by EGT>940Celsius i guess).
I remember that i was also hitting AFR 11.0:1 (0.75 V) while doing pulls with stock map.

I am using 95 petrol (similar specs to Shell V-Power Unleaded).

Does anyone have an ideea regarding why my EGT`s are soo high? The petrol i`m using is too bad? Is it possible that my O2 sensor is bad?

Thanks.

For someone who has 100 and 102 RON available in your country, using 95 RON seems a bit retarded to me.

Before "remapping" i was using 95 RON since i`ve tried 100/102 RON and i`ve felt no difference. Maybe the 95RON felt a bit more aggresive and the 100/102 smoother, but might be placebo.
In the manual and on the vehicle sticker, 95 RON is mentioned. So having all those in mind, i`ve used the cheaper one (95RON).
I had a full tank of 95RON when i started to learn about remap and implementing changes and now (1/4 fuel left in the tank) i`m waiting to finish the 95RON and switch to 100/102RON.
As i am trying to understand my logs ...i`ve came accross this situation and popped a question.
I get that higher RON implies higher resistance to knock. But in case it doesnt knock, does RON influence "calculated" EGT ?

I appreciate the time you`ve spent to share your opinion but a more technical oriented advice would be more usefull.  :-*

Still waiting for logs.

4th gear pull logs attached.

You tell me.. what is going on here?

Why would octane influence what you are seeing here (hint, you aren't seeing any KR)

Based on my current knowledge:
- Doesnt hit DesiredBoost which is set anyway too high. -> should have Desired arround max 21psi and then tappered down similar to my actual.
- Based on WG Duty cycle i guess the actuator is weak and cant hold (3200-4000Rpm)  -> given the above measure i guess it should hold, if not... replace actuator
- There`s a sudden jump in injector duty cycle (from about 4500 rpm) related to lambda going down to 0.75 (although this is not visible on the graph). -> not sure...

I get that the first dip in timing graph is due to running high boost but the second one (6000-6250) i dont know.
Since there is no KR and low values overall i guess i octane would make no difference at the moment. Higher octane would be useful only when running higher timing and KR`s might appear?
i hope i didnt say anything totally retarded :-\

LE: Slow timing + rich mixture = higher temperature in exhaust... and its like a loop? BTS compensating for increased temperature...until lambda gets to 0.75?

I've messed up.
While trying to write a new file with a Kess v2 it failed, then failed 3-4 more times while trying recovery. After that i got an error and ECU is dead.
Bought a spare ECU 2 days ago but i didnt get to clone mine  :'(
I tried scanning with VCDS and it doesnt connect. Then tried boot mode with nefmoto flasher and FT232RL / VCDS in dumb but i still cannot connect to ECU.
Any tips please?   :'(

Nefmoto does not suport boot mode. Use galleto 1260

You don't need to clone anything, you just need to reflash the ECU in boot mode and *maybe* fix the EEPROM. There's nothing on these ECUs that a failed flash can kill.

Thanks for the support!
Bought a Galletto 1260 cable and ordered a bench flashing adapter (ecu plug <->obd plug) from eBay.
I hope i`ll come back with good results  ::)

Hello,
I managed to get the Galletto cable and bench boot mode harness done.
Problem is that i can only access the ECU in boot mode (Read/Write).
If i try in normal mode, i get the "Errore Send Wake" error.
Any tips?  ::)

Put original flash and original epprom(with immo off)  of that ECU

After managing  to write the file in boot mode and not being able to access the ECU in normal mode, i`ve connected a spare ecu i had (never altered) and it behaved the same way.
So i`ve tried my ecu on the vehicle and it worked. :o
I will try to clone the my immo onto the spare ECU just to be safe next time.

OK, back on track now.
After reading bunch of threads here, i think i got an overall ideea.
I`ve implemented the following:
-Fueling based on the LAMFA(prefueling, spooling, etc) -> KR (0.825 lamda for HP) -> BTS (0.75 lambda safety net)
-Boost level to about 1.2 bar at 3000RPM tappered down to 0.8bar at 6800RPM
-Timing not touched yet, still learning  ;D

Here i`ve hit a wall, and i am unsure on how i should proceed further.
->EGTforPartProtection climbs quickly and my car is always going in BTS tables (0.75 lambda from about 5000RPM while doing pulls in 4th gear)
    ->guessing that i understood the model from FR, my FBSTABGM is influenced by tabgkrm_w  which is calculated mainly by ZATRKRML, FATRKTML, ZATAKRML. All three of these table having highest value in axis of 550 kg/h (~152 g/s) air flow. I`m going past 150 g/s in MAF readings at ~4400RPM reacing about 185 g/s at ~6800RPM. LE: this might not be same as MAF reading but they must be somewhat correlated.

Smart and correct way would be to install an EGT sensor/gauge and adapt the BTS model based on my readings. But i`m afraid to install the sensor in the exhaust manifold (might crack, sensor tip might melt/crack, etc) and if i install it in the downpipe...readings would be way off and incorrect.
I`ve checked for any EGT readings on remapped 1.8T ko3s just to have an ideea on real vs modeled values but...no success.

Can you guys share your knowledge and guide me further? :-[

Hi there,

I'm a newbie too... and probably the same country as you are from. Running higher octane allows you to prevent knock, thus advance the timing which will produce more power. You need to log also the avgKnockretard.
In your log it shows you're requesting way more than your turbo can deliver. Your wastegate looks to be almost maxed out through 80% of the time. Normally, with your turbo, which is similar with mine, it should look like the attached boost.jpg. I'm running the same engine specs and turbo as you are.
But, follow the S4wiki as it describes in detail which steps to take:
1. start with fueling - if you are running stock injectors and stock 3 bar FPR, then do not touc KRKTE, TVUB, FKKVS etc. If you replaced your stock injectors with 225 ones, then grab a 225 ecu file and get the values from there. Leave them stock.
2. Fuel can be adjusted from LAMFA or KFLBTS. I prefer KFLBTS. There is a scalar named TABGBTS. Once your current EGT goes over the value set in TABGBTS, ecu will look at KFLBTS instead of LAMFA for fueling. You should tweak the values of KFLBTS  - looking at your load you should adjust a square of the table starting 2500rpm and maybe 120 load up... It is my believe you should target an AFR of 12.2 - 12.5 during peak torque, then bring down AFR to higher revs up to 11 to cool down the engine and prevent knock.
It's a good idea to install an AFR gauge on your dash so that you can see live data, although I think your ecu is a wideband and you also see accurate values in logs. Note that whenever your requested lambda is less than 1, you will run in open loop. That means the ecu will not care about the O2 sensor and will only rely on the MAF readings - here things can go crazy due to the fact that you have modified your intake and the MAF readings are not accurate anymore...
3. While fuel is how you want it, you can move to boost. You can adjust the boost in 2 tables - LDRXN or KFLDHBN - some tuners prefer LDRXN, others prefer KFLDHBN. The latter is designed again, for component protection. Is not as ofertant as LDRXN, as it's quite narrow and it's based on engine temp. It's only 8 columns, compared to 16 LDRXN, but some prefer to use it as while this one is used, there is no IAT or VVT taken into consideration, so boost is not affected by these variables. Anyway, ecu will take into consideration the lowest value between the 2, so if you want to use KFLDHBN, move LDRXN values upper.
KFMIRL and KFMIOP tables need to be also tuned properly. I am ashamed that I still use the ME7 tuner wizard for these 2, but in time I will learn to master them.
Do some pulls with logs and see what your turbo delivers but I doubt it will pull more than the attached. You can see my ldrxn values attached for the same turbo as yours. You can set LDRXN to show values in approximate bar like this: 10*(LDRXN)+300mbar
After you get boost following your desired as closed as possible, otherwise you will throw negative/positive errors, look at your wastegate and adjust the PID in the KFLDIMX table (adjust only last 2 rows with the stock turbo) so that you can raise or lower boost to meet desired. Pay attention not to max out your WG.
Once fueling and boost is OK, take pulls and advance/retard ignition by watching your KR retard. Note that you will gain more power adjusting ignition than increasing boost.
I might have some things wrong and some might smack me, I've started this like you a few months ago, so this is what I've learned so far in this community.

I am having the same big issue as before.... Hesitation in 5th gear at about 5800 RPM.
Managed to pull some logs but saddly its 4th gear + 5th gear, so i couldnt use ECUxPlot on the file.
What i`ve observed so far:
- Lamda stays in 0.75 for some time (up to ~5800RPM in 5th gear), then starts climbing to like 1.6 - 1.7 (while going past ~5800RPM)
- Injector Duty Cycle jumps over 100%
Can anyone please check it and share some thoughts? At the moment i`m starting to ask myself if there might be a mechanical issue....

I have no idea where to even start with that log, there are so many things wrong.

Please dont do WOT runs anymore while you have this setup, you WILL melt your engine. Also wtf how fast are you going if you are logging up to 6k RPM in 5th gear...

Indeed there might be a lot of things wrong as i was focused on tweaking fueling and boost... making small changes in order to see if i understood what i`ve read on the forum.
But i observed this issue again and i was thinking that it might also influence other things, so i should focus on fixing this before going further.
As I first came across this issue when i adapted 0280156063 (1.8T 225hp) injectors, no other tweaks to the map, I dont think that this is affected by other changes that i made later.

Here are some logs of a 4th gear pull which is not affected by this issue.
PS: Required lambda below 0.75 is due to BTS . I had 0.75 lowest value in KFLBTS and KFDLBTS 0 before, but i`ve read some posts from prj and put the KFDLBTS values back...so i`ll tweak KFLBTS now.

I usually do logs in 4th gear, 2000rpm-6800rpm and let it chill after that. But today instead of letting the gas off i`ve just shifted into 5th and continued a little since i was on highway with no traffic at the moment.
Speed was about 210kmh i think (5th gear of 02M 6speed box).
In my previous pulls, only 4th gear and than let off the throttle, my lambda is 0.75, EGTforPartProtection goes briefly to arround 1000degrees (but idk how accurate is calculated now, given the mods) so i was not that worried  :'(

use the ldrxn values provided by mutzicu to create a smooth boost pressure desired graph.
this should result in a smoother wastegatedutycyle and a smoother maf curve.
post a picture of your current maf mounting

try to log with cooler outside temperature to hot hit 50degree celsius and not have 95 water.
when this is done try to solve part protection egt.

Hello,
Thanks for the suggestions! Here are some pics of my MAF location.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/sqd1k21nuj1sz4x/20190419_170630_HDR.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/xr9rrkox2phbczr/20190419_170646_HDR.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/seu0dxxv1k6y7pm/20190419_170720_HDR.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/u98zxs5ivzqzgy1/20190531_165348_HDR.jpg?dl=0
I would say its very very close to the original position. Piping is ~same length, kinda the same shape, only smoother and larger diameter.
I`ve ordered an AFR gauge (just to be safer during logging) which should arrive this week and meanwhile i will put back the OEM injectors just to check if i have the same high-speed issue.
I`ll keep you guys posted in case someone else comes across this issue.
If someone has other suggestions, please feel free to comment :)

Okay, so i`ve narrowed down my searches. Issue seems to be due to my fueling thats getting capped out.
I`ve installed an AEM AFR gauge and at WOT & high speeds, AFR goes down to like 9.3:1.
This is because of my BTS fuelling. I`m hitting relatively fast the 940 Grad C in FBTABGM and my min value in KFLDBTS is 0.75. So its following that from like 5500rpm in 4th gear.
But i left KFDLBTS active which comes into play aswell and lowers the requested lambda way more than the 0.75 that the car sensor can read.  (i`ve saw like 9.X:1 values on the AFR gauge).

How do you guys advise to proceed further?
1. Deactivate KFDLBTS (0 out the table, BTS fueling will only follow KFLBTS, req lambda no lower than 0.75...so enough fuel to avoid the issue of fuel starvation). But i saw in a post of prj, that is strongly inadvisable to run without this protection.
2. Improve the ignition angle efficiency (detazwbs) to avoid triggering KFDLBTS. But i dont know much about this...
3. Mess with EGTforPartProtection to avoid triggering FBTABGM in the first place.
This are the only options that come into my mind, if there`s another propper way to do it, please let me know!

I`ve attached a set of logs with my current map.

You're running in a vicious circle here as the 4th stroke can't evacuate properly due to he fact the k03 is a small turbo. Pressure accumulates, can't properly flow out the exhaust because of narrow turbo => temp inside cyl increases, turbo getting hotter => IAT gets hotter....

PID is still not very happy following your boost request.
You're still not logging the wkrm. If there's no knock recognition, you can advance the timing more for >5000rpm & >150 load

Use BTS for fuel. IDC is maxed out, you can request 12.5 AFR up to 5000 rpm thn lower it down to 10.5 at the end to save some IDC

In terms of power, I guess you've maxxed out your config

I`ll keep updating, maybe someone else needing help is as stupid/stubborn as me and finds my struggle usefull :D
Aiming for a constant 0.82-0.84 lambda and a minimum of 0.76 in worst conditions, tried a new improvement in the map:
-massaged KR tables (KFLAMKRL high load value increased from 0.825 to 0.84)
-massaged BTS tables (lowered KFLDBTS values a little, lowest value of KFLBTS is now 0.775 lambda)
-rised the high load /over 3000rpm values of KFZW a little ( 0.75 - 2.25 more)

Results are positive:
-EGTforPartProtection follows the same profile as before although AFR is higher overall
-acceleration feels smoother
-max IDC in wot 4th gear is 90%
-previously found issue (hesitation at high speeds) not encountered anymore so far.
-however, i got -3deg timing pull on cyl2 right after spooling point which i guess its ok, i only want to improve the time/steps it takes to recover from it.

Next thing to tackle:
- BoostPressureDesired low point at about 3500-3600rpm
- BoostPressureActual oscilations from 2750rpm(e.g. in these logs) to about 5000rpm
*i want my boost to be more liniar, to fill those holes in the picture attached.
Can you guys guide me further? What should i check in order to fix the 2 points above?

Hello guys,

I`m still struggling with the oscillating boost. Found that its easier to spot the issue in 6th gear.
Can you pleeease help me to figure out what`s causing this? :-\

Thanks

Log all boost PID values.

Are these the ones? Did i miss any of the ones needed?

you don't need the adaptation locations (mxa) but ya, those.

Done, new set of logs with PIDs is attached.

There is something very wrong with your Q2 term, it is completely cutting out, causing a big spike in wgdc when you need it most

If you`re talking about KFLDRQ2, i havent touched that.
Should i post the file that i`m currently running? if it makes things easier...

hmm no, not needed..

I'm assuming Q0 and Q1 are also stock?

Indeed, those are stock aswell.

I'd start by increasing Q0, try 25%, 50%, 100% and see what happens. It doesn't look like there is enough P, and there might be too much I

Might also need a bit more Q2, not sure why it is cutting out entirely but some more before the cutout might help

Damn, i`m way over my head with the boost PID. I`ve read a lot on fueling and timing so far, not much on the PID subject.
Guessing that the 700 hPa line needs attention but still, not sure how to configure it yet, how much and where exactly i should touch Q0 and Q2...
Can you please suggest some specific values? I`m afraid i`ll mess it up and make it even harder comprehend what i read about PID vs. what i see in logs before vs after.

No worries this can be a bit tricky.

Bottom line, the pressure axis is 'lde' or in other words, pressure difference between actual and requested.

If you are underboosting, lde is positive
If you are overboosting, lde is negative

this means that if you are overshooting, the output will follow the lowest lde line (iirc)

ldrkd also cuts out on B_lddy=0 (which happens when lde drops below 10 or close to overshoot, and then turns back on when lde comes back over 100 or lots of underboost) so it could be that that is the issue.

ldrkp will follow LDRQ0S and not KFLDRQ0 on B_lddy=0 as well, so i think we should just start with increasing LDRQ0S and seeing what happens.

I dont recall if you are logging B_lddy but if you aren't, please do. Also log lde if you aren't.

I'm also thinking a simpler alternative would be to cut IMX a bit more to prevent overshoot in the first place.

Yea, scratch all of the above, your IMX is no good.

You really dont want it all the way up at 90 during spool, and 85 at boost crossover is too high. You need it around 80-81 or so the whole time.

I did not find B_lddy in my logger .cfg file, i dont know how to find the address and other details to add it manually in .ecu file either.
Regarding KFLDIMX, it is 75.33 at 2500rpm, 69.95 at 3000rpm, 70.78 at 3500rpm, i`m a bit confuse... ??? Maybe i sould increase it to the values mentioned by you?
Or because of my lack of knowledge i should have understood that in fact, KFLDRL should be touched (being closely related to KFLDIMX) ?

I think he's saying you are pushing the turbo too much and the PID is not happy. I think he wants you to lower your boost request and adjust IMX so that WGdc floats around 80%

No, its fine, just pull IMX, its being bumped up after it is fed through DRL

Hello,
I tried a new map with KFLDIMX lowered by 10 at [2000 rpm - 4000 rpm].
Results:
-issue still there
-seems to oscilate a little faster than before
-boost spikes are lower, doesnt go above requested so much as before

Any other ideeas? :(

LE:as i now see a lot of oscilation in D, maybe i should also touch KFLDRQ2?

What turbo do you have?

Turbo is stock, K03S.

Don't be offended, but this is a really shit tune.   As begginer you can't yust put values in table. You are only gething more and more problems.
Go get to beggining... upload stock file, and match fuel for your injectors. Once you do that, step by step change values for load,and make logs. Then we can fix your problem properly and make a good tune
BDW. take a read a little about KFMIRL and KFMIOP, they look awful

Need correct boost pid all auq binary
factory not good after mod downpipe or add more boost
nyet solution working other s4 or other binary but not auq

best regards

Its ok, i take criticism in a constructive way, a slap on the wrist drives me forward. :)
I did my best to adapt the injectors, is something looking wrong in logs? The fact that actual lambda oscilatew too much or because is overall a little below requested?

Fuelling is now in control, your PID is a shitstorm, as is your request.

Honestly, i've seen worse. His req is what you'd expect if you are using HBN to limit boost rather than LDRXN

I am unsure the best way of fixing his PID issues though.

either drastically cutting Q0 and Q2 or flattening DRL in the affected area

Since the parameters involved are:
P-Anteil: ( LDRQ0DY ( bzw. LDRQ0S ) - KFLDRQ2 ( bzw. 0 ) ) * lde = ldptv
I-Anteil: lditv(i-1) + KFLDRQ1 ( bzw. LDRQ1ST ) * lde(i-1) = lditv
D-Anteil: ( lde - lde(i-1) ) * KFLDRQ2 ( bzw. 0 ) = ldrdtv

1.I am not sure if the "0" is referring to actual 0 or KFLDRQ0. Guessing it is referring to value "0" and its switched by B_lddy if i understood the FS correctly. Can someone please confirm? 
2.As I see high oscilation in P and lots of it in D, shouldnt i take small steps like modifying KFLDRQ2 first (and Q0 later)?
3.If so, i am unsure about how much i should lower KFLDRQ2. Judging by the formula vs logs vs TT225 values, maybe like a 30% reduction? Is my judgement correct?
->i`ve attached my ideea of a reduced KFLDRQ2

Hard to say, tuning out occilations in PIDs is more art that science.

yes, b_lddy completely turns off Q2 when lde is close to zero.

Looking at your logs it is tough to see what the cause of the oscillation is, I'm hoping just reducing Q0S is enough.

maybe start with that -50% and log and compare with the last one.

Based on my current understanding i cannot see the influence of Q0S in the D formula.
I`ll modify it anyway based on your advice.
Currently it is 2, i`ll lower it to 1 and check out the differences.

Q0S takes over the P term and D is disabled entirely when B_lddy=0

If lowering Q0S worse we MAY want to increase Q2 and Q0S

Hello,

I have put back KFLDIMX stock values back in place and tried 3 more things:
a) reduced LDRQ0S by 50% (from 2 to 1) ->doesnt seem right
b) increased KFLDRQ2 by 10-30% arround affected area  -> seems to be the right choice, with other small tweaks it may solve the boost oscilation problem
c) reduced KFLDRQ2 by 10-30% arround affected area ->doesnt seem right

You can find attached 4th gear + 6th gear logs and image of values modified in archives below.

Any further tips given the results above? Since the increased KFLDRQ2 reduced the oscillations a bit ... maybe i should work on that path by increasing KFLDIMX a bit (cuz of the undershoot) and increase KFLDRQ2 a bit more in necessary areas?

Yes and yes, I feel like you are on the right track! btw you may want to increase Q0S with Q2 they are somewhat linked due to b_lddy

Awesome, thanks a lot for your guidance!

Now that i'm on the right path, can you please hint aswell on what need to be done to rise the boost request at 3500rpm?
I would like to have a flat request 3000-4500rpm before doing the final tweaks on the PID.
I've checked the maps related to cam changeover(according to s4wiki) and i dont think thats the cause :(.

It isn't. That only affects you if you use LDRXN. That said, you can use LDRXN to taper from 3000 on up such that boost req limt from LDRXN is lower than HBN, it should be pretty flat.

I don't use HBN much as a limiter so I dont know how to flatten the result out... would have to dig through the FR to figure it out.

I saw in my logs that rlsol (EngineLoadRequested) from KFPED/KFMIRL etc. is capped by rlmax_w (EngineLoadCorrected) which comes from LDRXN via rlmx_w (EngineLoadSpecified).
ldrlts (KFLDHBN) is overall higher than LDRXN, so i am not sure why you are saying that it is responsable for limiting.
Also, i`ve intentionally put a high spike in LDRXN and KFLDHBN at 3500rpm just to see if it raises the request... but no success.
Am i missing something?

Apologies, I must have misread one of your earlier posts and mistakenly assumed ldrltrs was lower than rlmax. My mistake


yea, IRL likely isn't high enough for it to have an effect. You can see that from rlsol

The rest of the humps I'm not sure of, i'd have to walk through the FR again to go through each map and which var to track it down from.

Okay, i`m retarded. After spending 3 nights pulling schematics from FR, making a very long one in paint and checking each parameter.... i come to a conclusion that KFPBRKNW or KFURL might be the issue.
I remembered that i`ve read on S4wiki about the cam changeover effect on req. boost so i go back there and ... information is clearly stated. ::)
BTW: There might be a typo on "KFPBRKNWS". I think it should be changed to "KFPBRKNW"

Conclusion: Boost request at 3500rpm problem shall be solved by altering KFURL (3500rpm values will be same/close as the 3000rpm ones).

Regarding boost oscillation issue:
-Increased KFLDRQ2 and KFLDIMX (check attached picture) and results are better in 4th gear but kinda the same in 6th gear.
HJ0002_20190924_212048.csv -4th gear logs
HJ0002_20190924_212525.csv -6th gear logs

Any further suggestions?

Indeed. Fixed, thanks for the heads up.

A few crazy ideas:

1) Increase Q0S
2) Decrease UMDYLDR
3) Decrease UMDYLDR and increase/decrease Q0
4) Decrease UMDYLDR and increase/decrease Q2

Your IMX looks fine, i'd leave it alone, its tracking the center of the dc you want.

Copy PID maps from S3 BAM engine, have the same problem with this engine - AUQ.... instead of many many hours of tuning Q0,1,2 and Q0ST Q1ST .... or tune it to the way similar to the S3 Bam ecu.

AUQ pids just does not work well with higher boosts req. . idk why . pid controller behave like it is too aggressive on static mode.

0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00
0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00
100.00   100.00   59.03   45.84   38.96   27.17   12.00   6.40   5.57   3.56   2.14   0.00   0.00   0.36   0.00   0.00
100.00   100.00   99.19   82.20   63.20   53.55   34.82   20.66   18.75   18.47   18.38   19.73   20.83   21.47   23.61   26.65
100.00   100.00   100.00   96.25   86.99   76.77   57.15   45.96   34.82   33.16   32.60   35.27   44.32   52.94   60.29   64.12
100.00   100.00   100.00   100.00   100.00   85.96   66.95   55.16   48.82   52.73   64.20   74.28   82.35   85.58   87.23   86.96
100.00   100.00   100.00   100.00   100.00   89.17   71.93   63.81   61.82   66.39   74.08   84.08   92.11   96.05   97.69   97.38
100.00   100.00   100.00   100.00   100.00   100.00   80.89   75.01   69.65   72.61   77.94   87.65   94.02   98.81   100.00   99.79


0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00
95.00   95.00   19.11   27.07   35.37   39.51   42.56   45.13   44.13   43.34   42.13   42.01   41.65   41.56   41.40   41.60
95.00   95.00   25.49   38.16   47.90   52.17   55.18   56.83   55.81   55.55   54.61   54.21   53.48   53.09   52.68   51.56
95.00   95.00   31.41   45.24   57.02   59.50   61.55   64.38   63.69   63.09   62.45   62.18   61.46   61.27   60.39   58.58
95.00   95.00   36.80   51.41   61.84   65.03   67.26   69.36   69.70   69.49   69.47   68.80   68.58   68.20   67.69   65.40
95.00   95.00   41.55   56.81   66.97   70.23   72.44   73.82   73.61   73.19   72.98   73.22   72.90   72.39   71.82   71.26
95.00   95.00   45.35   63.17   72.66   74.29   75.71   77.11   76.91   77.01   77.03   76.94   76.48   76.45   75.93   75.17
95.00   95.00   49.16   70.00   77.01   78.35   78.98   79.75   80.20   80.19   80.44   80.67   81.14   80.87   80.04   79.09
95.00   95.00   68.64   81.08   84.67   84.83   83.66   83.69   84.19   85.66   86.44   87.52   88.07   87.94   87.55   86.53
95.00   95.00   95.00   95.00   95.00   95.00   95.00   95.00   95.00   95.00   95.00   95.00   95.00   95.00   95.00   95.00


0.40
0.40
0.40
0.40
0.30
0.20
0.20
0.10
0.10
0.10
0.20
0.35
0.40
0.40
0.45
0.50


1 :)

attention to imx axis

no no no , leave imx and ldr alone,

this should be solved mainly by tuning Q0,1,2 and Q0ST, Q1ST

Increasing Q2, and lowering Q0ST and Q1ST should solve the issue imho ...

There is q0 q1 in pic
Less aggressive during spool up
And I don't think it's a good idea to imx 1100hpa value higher than stock k03
And typically you requesting much more than pr 1100 on a k04
So what's the point leaving stock imx axis?