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Noob Zone => Noob Questions => Topic started by: BlackT on September 03, 2019, 08:45:16 PM



Title: Fuel filter with 5 bar presure regulator?
Post by: BlackT on September 03, 2019, 08:45:16 PM
I want to add more fuel beacuse my IDC is close to 100%
The cheapest and simplest solution is to fit a fuel filter with higher presure. Few days ago I was searcing on internet and I found a 5 bar fuel filter. And i could swear with my life i saw it.  Now it is imposible to find it  :o  only 6 and 4 bar is what I see now.  I think even I read somewhere on forum that tfsi use 5bar, but looks like that was a misinformation
Is there 5 bar fuel filter for returnless engine?


Title: Re: Fuel filter with 5 bar presure regulator?
Post by: IamwhoIam on September 04, 2019, 05:22:10 AM
the latest TFSI revision is a 6.x bar filter, however, you might see your pump struggle to keep up in order to make that pressure at redline. There were some older revisions that were 5.x bar (5.7 I think) but whether they fit your returnless 1.8T or not, I have no idea.


Title: Re: Fuel filter with 5 bar presure regulator?
Post by: Blazius on September 04, 2019, 06:27:15 AM
The 20 valve derived 2.0 tfsi(ea113) uses 5 bar (to 3bar) fuel filter and pump, that might work,dunno.


Title: Re: Fuel filter with 5 bar presure regulator?
Post by: BlackT on September 04, 2019, 09:06:13 AM
The 20 valve derived 2.0 tfsi(ea113) uses 5 bar (to 3bar) fuel filter and pump, that might work,dunno.
Do you have number part?
the latest TFSI revision is a 6.x bar filter, however, you might see your pump struggle to keep up in order to make that pressure at redline. There were some older revisions that were 5.x bar (5.7 I think) but whether they fit your returnless 1.8T or not, I have no idea.
6 bar is to much, 5.5or 5.7 if that is closest one is maximum that i will give a try


Title: Re: Fuel filter with 5 bar presure regulator?
Post by: Blazius on September 04, 2019, 09:42:30 AM
Do you have number part?6 bar is to much, 5.5or 5.7 if that is closest one is maximum that i will give a try

Nah my etka is broken atm, but look for an Audi A6 c6 2005 or so 2.0 tfsi fuel filter, you should find it.


Title: Re: Fuel filter with 5 bar presure regulator?
Post by: BlackT on September 04, 2019, 02:05:25 PM
Nah my etka is broken atm, but look for an Audi A6 c6 2005 or so 2.0 tfsi fuel filter, you should find it.
Can you use online etka? I am not able to find it, only 4 and 6 bar


Title: Re: Fuel filter with 5 bar presure regulator?
Post by: airtite on September 06, 2019, 12:21:36 AM
on this subject, whats the biggest FPR that I can get for the c5 rs6 and does anyone have a part number? I know I bought one for my b6 s4 but for the life of me cant find the part number anywhere. 2nd question if I upgrade the FPR will it assist with fueling or is that a waste of time?


Title: Re: Fuel filter with 5 bar presure regulator?
Post by: BlackT on September 06, 2019, 01:49:14 AM
I will give a shoot 6 bar filter. Bur my question is will that presure harm my injectors.
Even I doub't that stock fuel pump will flow 1500 cc/min at 6 bar


Title: Re: Fuel filter with 5 bar presure regulator?
Post by: airtite on September 06, 2019, 04:58:16 AM
on this subject, whats the biggest FPR that I can get for the c5 rs6 and does anyone have a part number? I know I bought one for my b6 s4 but for the life of me cant find the part number anywhere. 2nd question if I upgrade the FPR will it assist with fueling or is that a waste of time?

To answer my own question about the part number for the 5bar FPR its 078.133.534

Not sure about whether adding this will be a benefit or not? The rs6 runs out of fuel before boost with the stock turbos... not log tested yet but would prefer not to push the limits.


Title: Re: Fuel filter with 5 bar presure regulator?
Post by: BlackT on September 06, 2019, 10:49:35 AM
Today I tested my old fuel pump from A4 B5 1.8T and here are the numbers are
Maximum presure that pump can deliver is about 7 bar
At aprox 6.2 bar it can deliver 1200 cc/min
At 3.8 bar it delivers about 2300 cc/min
Testing is done at 10V, fuel pump surge about 5A. 

 Sooo, at 14V I think it will be able to deliver at least 1400 cc/min at 6 bar. and that is enought for me.
Is there a danger that injectors will fail at that presure?


Title: Re: Fuel filter with 5 bar presure regulator?
Post by: Blazius on September 06, 2019, 01:16:32 PM
Today I tested my old fuel pump from A4 B5 1.8T and here are the numbers are
Maximum presure that pump can deliver is about 7 bar
At aprox 6.2 bar it can deliver 1200 cc/min
At 3.8 bar it delivers about 2300 cc/min
Testing is done at 10V, fuel pump surge about 5A. 

 Sooo, at 14V I think it will be able to deliver at least 1400 cc/min at 6 bar. and that is enought for me.
Is there a danger that injectors will fail at that presure?

Dont think so, however high prssure fpr will cause strain on the pump , it will fail way faster then oem.


Title: Re: Fuel filter with 5 bar presure regulator?
Post by: nyet on September 06, 2019, 02:21:57 PM
I don't think a 5bar fpr is a good idea either, injectors will behave differently as well (more latency, etc).


Title: Re: Fuel filter with 5 bar presure regulator?
Post by: BlackT on September 06, 2019, 05:09:50 PM
I have really bad filing about puting 6 bar fpr.
I think it is better idea to find biger injectors
I have opportunity to buy S3 injectors, but they are different. Can these injectors work on my engine?


Title: Re: Fuel filter with 5 bar presure regulator?
Post by: Blazius on September 07, 2019, 12:32:28 AM
yes they do, the long nose is more suited  for small port afaik but it works on both.


Title: Re: Fuel filter with 5 bar presure regulator?
Post by: BlackT on September 08, 2019, 03:12:45 PM
I found that fuel injectors can hold up to 7 bar. The lifetime of fuel pump doesen't bother me. I run on LPG and fuel pump is off in that condition.
So i will give a shoot with 6 bar FPR
Question before I do that, what variables do I need to log on stock sistem, to make sure everthing is working alright.


Title: Re: Fuel filter with 5 bar presure regulator?
Post by: nyet on September 08, 2019, 03:52:01 PM
I found that fuel injectors can hold up to 7 bar.

7 bar absolute? The FPR is the pressure ABOVE the mani pressure. If you are running 2.5bar boost and a 5bar FPR, thats 7.5 bar.


Title: Re: Fuel filter with 5 bar presure regulator?
Post by: BlackT on September 09, 2019, 12:03:29 AM
B6 use non return sistem. So the more boost, less presure on injectors.
If I use 6 bar FPR, at idle the injectors will take about 6.8bat pressure.

But that what you mention in return sistem. The pressure on injectors is always same as FPR. I must draw that, beacuse I cant expalin it
The body on injector will must hold a 7.5 bar, but diference betwen lower and upper side of injector is same as FPR. If you look at inside componts of injector

Imagine that the arow is a presure from manifold 1.5bar , and from other side we have 7 BAR. The wall of this sheel ( wall of injector in our case) will have 7 BAR, but the ball( internal componets od injector) will only hold the differnece 7-1.5= 5.5 BAR. So the injector flow will be rateted at 5.5 bar


Title: Re: Fuel filter with 5 bar presure regulator?
Post by: BlackT on September 10, 2019, 04:46:26 AM
At the end i instaled fuel filter with 6BAR FPR.
Firs problem is that B7 fuel filter have 10 mm return valve hode, and B6 have 8 mm. So there is need to done some modifications. I use ruber hose to make that transtalion.
I started the car, and everthing was alright, then I try selveral times to squize return hose with my fingers, to check is there any pressure in it. That was  a huge mistake, becuse after i have sqiuzed the hose, my fuel pump start to make noise. It is still working but it make noise   :'(
To numbers

At idle i have 6.0 bar on fuel rail, testing at 13.2V and injectors full open, pressure drop to 5 bar
Fuel pump compust about 7 Apms

Do I recommend anyone to do this? NO... It is far more better idea to get bigger injectors. It is safer and at end it cost less

I am lucky beacuse i run my car on LPG, when I run on petrol, pump make noise and it is only a mather of time when it will fail. Not more safe car to drive on long trip

Here is a log with origianl 4 bar fpr vs 6 bar fpr


Title: Re: Fuel filter with 5 bar presure regulator?
Post by: nyet on September 10, 2019, 09:46:04 AM
B6 use non return sistem. So the more boost, less presure on injectors.
If I use 6 bar FPR, at idle the injectors will take about 6.8bat pressure.

But that what you mention in return sistem. The pressure on injectors is always same as FPR. I must draw that, beacuse I cant expalin it
The body on injector will must hold a 7.5 bar, but diference betwen lower and upper side of injector is same as FPR. If you look at inside componts of injector

Imagine that the arow is a presure from manifold 1.5bar , and from other side we have 7 BAR. The wall of this sheel ( wall of injector in our case) will have 7 BAR, but the ball( internal componets od injector) will only hold the differnece 7-1.5= 5.5 BAR. So the injector flow will be rateted at 5.5 bar

understood