NefMoto

I have trouble locating KFMIOP and KFMIRL maps. I have turbo installed, and dyno test showd that i have torque limiting problem. If someone could help me out here, it would be great.

My quess : KFMIOP at 0x16672 and KFMIRL at 0x15314 ? Maybe.. ?

They look inverted to me and i'm not sure how to configure MAP view for TunerPro or so. What multiplier to use for each? People seem to have values >100 on KFMILR, i have them all under 100. Yes, this is first time for me doing this.

HW: 0261207714
SW: 1037370539
VIN nr.: WP1ZZZ9PZ4LA06541
SW ver.:
Spare:
Engine: 00417000C4G86SE4
HW Ver.:
SW upg.: 6SE4ASN3000 0086
Installation:

Attachment shows how it looks now.

here is irl iop rlvmxn and rlvsmxn to start you off

also i overlooked the turbo part... doing a turbo on a vag me car is not easy. they have a hard load limit and no matter what you extend irl axis too it will never to past 110%ish. as soon as it hits that load cap it will run lean pull timing and slam the throttle shut. you have a few options for this and if this is a non manual gearbox the trans will need to be tuned too otherwise torque limiters, etc. in the trans will cause limp mode hard shifts, slips and or failure. back to the engine side... you need to find the hard limiters in the file to increase the 100% capped limit or you can under scale the maf to make overhead for boost. both methods require a larger maf housing. the stock maf at least in a 24v and a 12v i did stopped reading after about 4.7v i ended up using a 4inch housing. another way that you could tune it is in application mode but i always had tons of issues with cold starts, idle, tip-in smoothness etc. requires tuning backup tables and the end result is still shit.

if you can provide more info on the setup im sure other forum members can chime in and help too. few things to start out with is what are you using for logging, whats your primary lambda configuration, and how much experience do you have with na>fi vag conversions? 

Well, let me tell you, it aint gonna be easy. As marty said, they got a 100% requested load cap, you need to find them and modify if you wanna request loads above 100%, there are also multiple if you do not change them all, the charge controller goes mad and wont let you start it. Second is to underscale the maf, which could bring its own issues with it. 3rd is cwmdapp, which is probably the best method IF you set it up properly which needs a lot of changes. For one make sure to keep torque based ignition on ( only bit 1 set to 1) , this way it takes care of idle, starting, internal demands such as AC. You need to change timing maps, kfmiop , kfped and irl too. You need to make sure requested load matches actual load roughly , when below 100% , because if not torque limit 2 will trigger on certain occasions , like certain % pedal vs RPM.
KFPED is needed cause na ecu's lamfa for fueling, as bts is disabled usually.

First of all, thanks for OLS map file and very informativie responses. This is where i'm at :

Me and my wife got Porsche Cayenne 2004 about year ago and we decided to have some fun with it. We have zero experience of turbos or tuning in general. This is first i'm ever looking into ECU maps. I have KESS available and that was used to read my current ECU software. Current configuration is (we already popped one piston, and pulle engine out, so this is part 2 going now :) :

- Turbo (0.5bar is what we wan't, currently goes to 0.65bar)
- WB O2 sensors (stock) in exhaust manifold (LTFT, STFT seem fine)
- Larger bosch injectors 06A906031J. These output around 25-30% more than stock (this because of E85)
- Only E85 is used
- Stock secondary cat fitted
- Stock MAF (yes, it clips at high rev)
- Intercooler
- No ECU modifications

Car runs fine, there are no real issues with part throttle or anything. It's "OK" and it's much more peppy than stock, much better to drive actually. I have been driving it for few month and most of my issues are caused by shoddy work i made with exhaust etc.

However, we ended up on a dyno and we can clearly see that torque peaks at 400Nm and it feels like it pulls ignition and really hard tries to keep it limited (torque curve is really wavy). This also limits top horsepower to just shy over stock (+30 or so).

What i'm looking here, is to rise torque limit +20-30% on WOT.  And i was thinking that playing around ith torque maps would help me out.

I can confirm that sometimes when pulling hard, transmission goes to 'limp mode', in this case, it works just like normally would, but there is indication on dashboard about it. When pulling you can feel the torque limiting and power comes in 'waves'. This could be because of it actually slipping. Exact same transmission is used on a turbo s cayenne putting out near 500hp. I can maybe pull whole transmission ECU from junked turbo s cayenne, that should fix that issue if there are torque limit going on inside there.

I really need to read what you tell me and think about it.

Just to add : Stock values for this car are 250Hp/310Nm. It's exact same engine found from R32, Phaeton, Touareg etc.
 
Additional note 2 : It's not important to get this car just right, it's a project car and always will be. And when it comes to how much experience i have with VAGs and na->fi modifications, i do have basic undestanding and have done some research. I have basic undestranding how ME system strategy goes, load vs torque, ignition, fueling all that.

 

so youre running 250hp engine with turbo and get only 265 with 0.65 boost?

is it running negtive timing? :) no surprise for a melted piston then

Piston failure was because of high compression ratio, uncontrollerd boost and failing/slow responding WB O2 sensor. Capping to low boost (<0.5bar) and using E85 fuel should take care of that (for now). O2 sensor was replaced of course. So it has nothing to do with actual torque limiting issue we discuss here.

So is this an automatic then or not? Also yes 265 hp is a bit low for this, very roughly 1 bar of boost should increase perfomance by 100% in ideal conditions, so you should be around 300 hp ish or so ( guessing you have t04e or something). ) Also increase preload on wg , if you dont want 0.65 bar( again prolly internally wg'd 0.5 bar)

Torque limit on na ecus is usually 100% on WOT you need to get ME7logger working and post some logs my man. ) .5 bar also results in 130~ ish load on stock MAF - in any case above 100% , so I am surprised charge control is not telling you to fk off and slamming the throttle shut.

Again get me7logger working and post some logs.

Yes, it's automatic. AISIN AW TR-60SN. I will record some logs to get facts about what is going on. I have VCDS and it looks like ME7logger would work with my hardware too. I think low Hp is because i'm using E85 and if torque limiter is pulling timing, it has much bigger effect on E85 than "normal" fuel. Actually, when we drove it with normal high octane fuel (before we damaged it) it sure was MUCH faster.

Anyway... i go and get some actual data.

Few additional questions. Tried to get me7logger going, two cables (VAG COM and some ELM237 cable). Both give "no echo" error, no matter if using FTDI or COM. Also tried few other apps and they are no go, same no echo error. Tried two laptops, different drivers, maybe it's actual wiring thing with cars obd port.... So, i can only log some basic values, not requested and actual torque. Only common obd stuff..

However, because i needed to test if i can actually flash my car at all, i made some modifications to KFMIRL. Stock values maxed out at 109% so i'm assuming it's hard limited to 110% like stated here. I modified it in such way, that they max out at 130% and i could feel the difference, torque limiting is much more 'violent'. For me, that confirms 110 hard limit really is there and i'm back to stock KFMIRL.

So, onto next one. It was suggested that i do some MAF scaling to make load values smaller. MLHFM is what i need to modify, but once again, my untrained eye can't find it, i just can't locate map like that what would make sense.. i would assume it starts from low values and goes up, is it really just 8bit values? I would expect it to be 16bit values. EDIT: Found it @0x14744 .. Anyway.. my plan is to scale it down some 25% percent. Some people seem to adjust KFKHFM, why so? KRKTE is then adjusted up, to make up for fueling. Sound like a plan?

After all that and much fine tuning, load hard limit should hit around 25% later, and that actually would be enough for my purposes. Like stated earlier, i'm on E85 and winter time is here, i need to modify cold start fueling and maybe even idle/cold rpm values too, but that's a different story.

Question part :
- What google words i should be using to locate ME7.1 documentation that has all those charts and diagrams?
- When using tool like TunerPro or WinOLS, what multiplier i need to use for tables to make values sensible (for me) and where these multipliers come from?

Interested on getting ME7logger working with Cayenne also. My Pig is sitting in the garage, mid open-heart-chain-replacement-surgery right now. When all the harware gremilns are sorted, plans are in motion to get something out of that 4.5 V8 german twinturbo beauty. I read somewhere that all early Cayennes had the same ecu, 6- or 8-cyl petrol. I have a full map pack for 4.5 V8 955 Cayenne. I'll compare it to the 3.2 file at this thread and if it's a match I'll upload it here later.

"No echo" is almost always bad / wrong cable.

It's same ECU model, ME7.1.1. But i don't think there is anything else common between 3.2 and 4.5. For starters 4.5 is manufactured by Porsche and 3.2 by VW.