NefMoto

Nyet - Since this is about re-engineering I thought this might be the appropriate area to post these questions. If not please move.

I know some folks sell tunes for NA engines such as the VR6 that has been converted to a turbo setup. It's unclear from my discussions with the car owners and the tune sellers how well these aftermarket tunes actually perform. Some folks are willing to tolerate a lot of poor running for the increased power.  ;)

I'd like to know the following if anyone can answer these questions:

1. Has anyone here been able to reprogram an OE ME 7.1.1 ECU from an NA engine to run properly thru the entire RPM range on a cold to hot engine that has been converted to a turbo engine? My application includes a DSG trans and AWD.

2. Has anyone been able to reprogram a ME 7.1.1 to work together with an aftermarket EFI/Ignition ECU so as to retain all of the OE functionality of the ME 7.1.1 while using the aftermarket system to run the EFI/Ign. of a converted NA to turbo engine? If so what aftermarket system did you use and on what application?

TIA

my 2 cents:

Pointless to hack NA ECUs to run FI. It can be done, but it introduces so many shitty hacks it isn't worth it. Just about any standalone will do a better job, but you lose all of the safeties built into Motronic.

That said, most of them have to be disabled to hack an NA motronic ECU to get it to work in an FI application anyway, especially if you are pondering some sort of franken mix of the two.

That is my opinion though. I'm sure there are many that disagree with me.

As far as picking a standalone system; i'd say its a matter of budget and what you have the most experience tuning.

Also, once you are willing to give up the driveability and safety niceties of motronic, you do get some of the really nice real time logging/tuning functionality of modern standalone systems.

It's very much doable, but it needs custom tuning.
Most stuff that is sold is pretty bad.

I have seen some supercharger conversions where FI with a NA Motronic works just fine.
But this very much depends on the linear boost you get from a supercharger.

Would opt for a standalone in a turbo conversion too.


I converted a NA Alfa GTV 3.0 to Supercharger quite successfully by only running ignition on the Motronic, and fueling on a Megasquirt.
Next thing is a conversion of my 156 GTA 3.2 to Supercharger which runs a ME7.3.1 which i will try to keep.

BTDT, working perfectly.

Nice!
I almost opted for a VEMS but somehow i still dont want to loose factory knock control and other stuff.

My supercharged bussos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnJN-CjKQNs    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0t-6JTvSEA

I converted two different ECUs from NA to turbo, including fully featured electronic boost control implemented on these very ECUs using free pins for the solenoid. The first one was a flawless job (still runs since 2009, EBC was added in 2013), the other one I cannot state anything with full confidence, I did not get to finish the fine tuning and the problems I was experiencing till I had to dump the project were not the most trivial ones (though by now I am quite certain I know what they were).

But, these were much simpler things than ME-s, though the second one was also ST10 based, it did not have torque structure or anything similar (and the code base size of about 30-50% of that of ME). I would attempt having a shot at ME with this, but somebody would have to pay me insane amounts of money and do some magic so that I'd have time for it.

For a half decent external solution look up DET from ECU master, but I am totally unsure how well it does things for more complex setups.

i can help find load caps and other maps done a few na to t myself but not with dsg. i dont really see that being a problem aside form software will need to be tuned to suit engine setup. i know none wants to hear this but group-in tune? :P

As said, it can be done , but the real reason you would do this is costs or just madness. as you know I probably have the only 1.8 turbo converted me7.5 running on stock ecu in europe, and so I can help with a few things if you decide to go that way.

But as I said before, many things differ in atmo softs, such as 120% torque structure like automatics trans, bts fueling switched off, different charge control , changeover etc.

You mentioned a few times you have me7.1 but what kind of car and engine? Audi , vr5, A6, 2.4 v6, 2.8 ?  

Also n156 runs off n75 power stage, you can kinda use it for boost manipulation if you arent going mbc or internal wg only.

DET is a very good piece of hardware for the money, it can also run semi standalone mode( running injectors separate from ecu signals), but for similar money you can get some decent standalone ecu's too.

Why not make your own pigiback ECU.  You can make something like 1:2 relationship between ECU and MAF.   a few years ago i made that with me3 and arduino.
The ecu was controling all, but injectors and turbo were contorled by arduino.
lets say real g/s is 180. that is input in arduino. ->  Arduino outputs to ECu 120 g/s
Then ECU outputs to injectors lets say 60%DC, -> arduino then gain it to 80%
It was working good in all conditions

Because you're going to end up defeating just about everything that is interesting in Motronic to 1) not have it throw codes 2) not drive like shit in part-throttle and only drive a little like shit in part-throttle etc.

At which point you may as well go standalone.

But yes, a lot of tuners take this approach, even for tuning non-NA cars for bigger turbos etc.

That car was my everyday car. Never had any issue, or shit drive like you said. I drove it like original car, only with more power when I need it. And many people drive my car, noeone have ever doubt that something like that is in car, or that the engine behevier unusual.
Of course I have pedal position input in arduino and aditional MAP sensor for better boost control.
I am not only sure how ESP/ASR would behevier with that pigyback. Beacuse I didn't have it on my car

Thanks for all the info. folks. I knew this was not going to be easy or maybe not practical when it's all said and done. I am not totally opposed to an aftermarket ECU system but I would not give up some of the Motronic controls to use a less sophisticated ECU. It's unfortunate that the ME 7 series can't be easily converted to simply MAF without the torque based strategy.

For those interested the application is a 2008 VW R32 with the 3.2L VR6 engine, DSG and AWD. Not sure if supercharging is viable but if it offered a practical 7.1.1 ECU tuning path it might be an acceptable option. Will need to investigate that possibility before I start trying to hack the Motronic in any serious fashion.

If you are talking about HGP-turbo, they bough turbo-functionallity from Bosch and let it added it to NA-Software, AFAIK

That would probably be the ideal way to go.

If you're asking these questions you will never get this running right ever.
You need a professional who has done this before and has a working and tested solution.

R32 Turbo with DSG on stock management is everything else but easy, there's 3 ECU patches involved to even start getting anywhere.
And don't get me started on the DSG...

Then Bosch recompiled a software for them, as SY_TURBO is a compile-time option,
would be very very hard to patch in afterwards.

Yes, new-compile and having its own A2L/Damos.
No patch, directly from "source"

That´s I was tould.

Well good luck with that lol.

!!!

Not sure where you've heard that nonsense but their ecu's are pretty basic underscaled hfm types, no LDR control in them. You do hfm re-scale for airflow, fuel, ignition, open/closed loop, idle and knock mods for a decent flash tune like they all pretty much are, then mod dsg to suit.

There is a certain Mk4 R32 file that I have personally seen, that tells otherwise...
It had SY_TURBO at 1.

N75 output is the intake manifold flap on these. It is possible to write your own boost control for other ECU's and use this flap. I have done this for a VR5 engine myself.
It is fairly straightforward to configure it as per the C166 user manual. Works exactly as intended too.

Interesting, not seen that on the ones I've gone through, mani change over was the same, mk5 st10 stuff I was looking at tho, I guess the use of srim or variable mani dictates that usage then for patching

There is no SY_TURBO=1 mk5 ST10 ME7.1.1 file out there. The only one that existed was for a mk4 C167 and it wasn't made for HGP.

That's unfortunate.