NefMoto

Hi guys,
I'm running costantly 100 oct fuel and I have understood during the timing setting at High load that I can gain +5 or +6 degrees more instead of 95 octane

I would like to set all values for each rpm/load%

is it a good idea?
 
I will just rise +3degree for all? (except the high load values modified according me7logger WOT)


thank you friends

Roughly, yes, but at some point KFZWOP might need some work (probably more relevant for E85 or 103oct+ though)

KFZWOP never "needs work". If your ignition is more advanced, you just have 100% angle efficiency.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under impression that the flame front velocity of E85 and 105+ was different and might change where 100% angle efficiency is.

Again, this is not from personal experience but from what I "heard".

I'm skeptical, of course.

Well, prj concluded that there is no practical difference and KFZWOP does not need touching. That was in another thread a while back that had a heated discussion about that. Regardless of his opinion, I did some research before I got into my E85 tuning, and the flame speeds are different. At rich the difference is negligible, at stoich it is substantial. And there is scientific data for that (please do not make me quote the source, I lost it). Other sources also said that E85 is effectively less advanced, that is, your KFZWOP should be dropped and, contrary to some other info out there, you should be "delicate" in advancing the timing on E85.

The other thing of course is - how accurate and trustworthy KFZWOP tables are where they are beyond the knock limit. Even Bosch docs says these are theoretical values, and as such they can probably be left untouched for other fuels. Where they can be verified, the actual differences are probably very small translating to even smaller differences in spark efficiency, and that's the only thing the KFZWOP does after all, no?

OEM KFZW is calibrated with 120+ RON fuel, so they hold zero value for E85 tuning.

thank you for the suggestion!

Just another question regarding my poor cold start starting from 15 C° and below.
As per some info get on this forum I have to touch FKSTT and KFZWSTTM.

my issue is about FKSTT, there are two maps and the values are strange!( ecu 8N0906018H )
for some C° the value is so high (see attached picture)

If I go to see values on different ecu, example APX engine they are linear value

Why?
How I can proceed ?

just need correct map address and same linear

that map is 100% not well defined.

Thank you!
I will try to adjust it!

Then Increase 20%  is ok?

I wouldn't add a flat 20%.  I'd be logging first, depending on your boost levels you could be knocking as it. 

Randomly adding a flat 20% to a timing map because 'the internet told you so' is unbelieveably dumb.  Check first, add, check again...

I was talking about FKSTT that should be fuel enrichment map...
About timing I will monitoring by log no problem

Tuning FKSTT (if you really have to touch it, why is it supposedly off in the first place?, something else being a problem? mechanical?) is a seriously painful process. Assuming you do not have industrial strength military grade wideband installed (mine shuts down on crank for example) - first, it takes some ear to figure out if you have too much or too little fuel (both situations can be a no start), and then you add/subtract in small increments until you hit the sweet spot. One crank and you have to wait for some hours to cold soak the engine, any subsequent cranks are not the same temperature conditions, despite the CTS readings being (almost) the same. Though probably a bit easier for gasoline than for Ethanol that has horrible cold starting parameters.

When calibrating this you use an independant sensor with separate powering so crank voltage drop won't affect your readings at all :-)

Before scaling KRKTE for the 440cc, no any issue, maybe because fuel was so enriched.

When I completed The scaling and my LTFT are ok I start to get the problem.
If I consider that I dropped KRKTE around 22%, I was thinking to re add the same fuel before scaling by FKSTT, increasing 20-25% only at critical temp 0c, 10c, 20c

Pretty sure this problem gone with normal injectors

Then my bet is on your TVUB being off. You can of course fix the symptoms by messing with FKSTT, but that should really not be necessary.

Tvub I fixed by the datasheet of the injector.
See attached picture

Goodmorning guys,

Problem Solved!

I increased 20% the FKSTT and the Car start this morning very good.

thank you to all

Can you post screen shot old vs new table? Please

What are you attempting to accomplish?
The differences are miniscule.

KFZWOP is used for calculating angle efficiency which goes into torque and EGT model calculations.
Unless you have a perfectly calibrated engine dyno and a LOT of time and you really care about the output of torque being 10nm less or more, then there is absolutely no point to _ever_ touch these maps.

Saying otherwise just shows complete lack of understanding...

What about the engines with lower cr?
Is there a reason to raise a bit kfzwop to slightly compensate less efficiency?

Tell me, how does a lower engine compression ratio affect MBT with a 120 octane fuel?

How does a lower compression ratio change angle efficiency when the angle is the same?

Here guys, I made a flowchart to help you out some.

Also apart from that, unless you have something where torque is important to have with <5% precision, like a DSG then there is absolutely no point to ever touch this.
And I do hope your KFMIRL and KFMIOP are stock too, or KFMIRL is linear and not increased only in last columns. Because then your torque is fubar anyway.

Let's say we have 10 deg on a 3000 rpm etc and that's a 60% angle eff and 100nm on a stock engine
But what happens when the cr drops? Same ignition gives less torque then (with the same other conditions)
So here is the master plan
Raise kfzwop so that 10  deg gives 50% and 80nm
Not a precision tuning I know but why not? And btw 225 cr9. 0 differs cr9.5 180hp engines same way

Newsflash, when CR drops, your non-knock limited MBT is still in the same place.
And it's still 60% angle efficiency.
So all you wrote is BS.

In this case for the same torque you need more load, meaning KFMIRL needs to be recalibrated.
Ignition angle efficiency has absolutely nothing to do with this.

All this is an ABSOLUTE waste of time unless you have an engine dyno and research fuel.
Add to that ignorance of how the system works and everything you change will just screw shit up.

There's probably less people on this forum than I have fingers on one had who actually:
a) understand how this works
b) have the means to calibrate it

For everyone else, including you, just look at the flow chart ;)

Why there are different kfzwop then between 125 180 and 225 engines?

Its not my primary work and i dont have tons of time to dig it so yes im asking questions sometimes you moron  ;)

That chart made me laugh :D :D

What about the axis change? I read that if I change the KFMIOP axis I should change KFZWOP axis too.

I don't know where you read that, if you are making random modifications to KFMIOP/KFMIRL then KFZWOP is the last of your worries.
Just forget the map exists. If you are wondering whether to change it then the answer is always - no.
Those who need to change it will never need to ask the question.

Soo we are back to beginning. When someone said KFZWOP is ideal ignition( or 100% eff. If we say it correctly) so no need to touch rhis, beacuse we will never achive that ideal condition.

Sorry I said nothing. I've just checked and KFMIOP and KFZWOP use the same axis for load.

There are cases when you can hit it but its no issue, but yes no need to touch it really, this is why I dont agree with changing it to get bangs and pops on overrun.

is there another way to get -30° without changing it?

In MED9 and up, during overrun zwout=zwspae.
Do the same.

Even in my soft and atmo soft, overrun ign angle always go static to whatever is in KFZWMN, does not matter what RPM or speed or load. If your soft doesnt do this, I guess youll have to search FR to see what is up with it.