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Title: Golf 4 1.8t AGU converted to ME7 - Main relay DTC Post by: sda2 on November 19, 2019, 04:24:07 PM Hello Nefmoto,
My ME7 swapped AGU is currently driving me crazy. I converted it to narrowband ME7 4B0906018B running 06A906032AR 0007 with an ARZ engine harness and all the needed sensors. The car obviously lacks SAP and N80 valve, that's why I 11'd them in the ESKONF and set expected secondary air volume to 0. Postcat O2 sensor is 11ed as well. Injector variables are set corresponding to the existing AGU injectors currently, so it's basically plug'n'play. Attached you have my binary for troubleshooting purposes, please don't use it for flashing as it might be bad. After adapting the T10a from the chassis to T14 connector of the engine harness, moving over the fuel pump to pin 3 of the orange connector, I thought I can just call it a day, but the engine had no spark. The DTCs I got were: 17925 - Main Relay (J271): Electrical Malfunction P1517 - 35-00 - - 17972 - Throttle Actuator (J338): Under-Voltage during Basic Setting P1564 - 35-00 - - I isolated that to the missing 12V line at the ignition coils, fed to them via the J271 main ECU relay. I guess the TBA is unable to succeed because of the other DTC still present. But still, after manually bridging relay pin 5 to ground, or even jumping the switched relay contacts, I couldn't get the DTC P1517 to disappear. All the wires from the ECU to the relay box are intact, I double checked that. After looking around inside the ME7 funktionsrahmen, I discovered that there are different self diagnosing functions for the relay depending on the software. And additionally there are two versions of the relay, one 4 pin and one 5 pin. 1J0906381(B) Is it possible, that I don't have an electronic problem, but the 4B0906018B ME7 from a Passat running 06A906032AR software is just confusing the diag functions? Maybe it doesnt have the circuitry to drive the relay at all? I found those Passat ECUs way cheaper on Ebay, as they are more common. Same flash, another 018B ME7: same result I have no idea how to move on from here, maybe you have a hint for me. :) Title: Re: Golf 4 1.8t AGU converted to ME7 - Main relay DTC Post by: BlackT on November 20, 2019, 12:00:09 AM AGU/AEB only have Fuel pump relay. ARZ have one more relay. You need to add it in your car.
Power to relay go from "30" and ourput go to pin 121 at ECU, and to coils Relay is trigered by pin 21 on ECU BDW, did you put 4 gap camshaft triger? Edit: I didn't understand you, what ECU is in the car? Title: Re: Golf 4 1.8t AGU converted to ME7 - Main relay DTC Post by: sda2 on November 20, 2019, 01:42:23 AM Yes, I know that, and the additional ECU relay is part of the engine harness and sits right next to the SAP relay. Cross connection T2m is plugged in and feeds coils and pin 121.
I see battery voltage on coils and ECU pin 121 when manually bridging the relay or pulling the relays control pin (pin 21 on ECU) to ground. The stock ECU was an M3.8.3 flashable over OBD (06A906018BB) and had cruise control, so I already had CAN to cluster, a clutchsensor and the double brake sensor installed. Now I have a 4B0906018B ME7 narrowband unit installed with the firmware 06A906032AR from an ARZ engine. When jumping the relay, the engine starts and runs in limp mode because I cannot make a complete throttle body alignment. I have the other trigger wheel laying here, but that shouldnt be a problem because I get the DTC while engine shut off. Maybe someone could measure the resistance of the control circuit of the ECU relay? The resistor installed in mine is 1.1kOhm (brown,brown,black,red,brown,orange). Relay resistance is 148Ohm, 171.3 the control circuit, and 1.1kOhm on the resistor. Edit: What do I have to change to get rid of the ECU relay in code/tune, I don't see the importance of that relay tbh. Title: Re: Golf 4 1.8t AGU converted to ME7 - Main relay DTC Post by: BlackT on November 20, 2019, 03:20:32 AM Put in 4B0 906 018B software, i yust wrote about that yesterday.
http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=16987.0title= Fell fre to ask if something is not clear Title: Re: Golf 4 1.8t AGU converted to ME7 - Main relay DTC Post by: sda2 on November 20, 2019, 03:59:10 AM But both of the ECUs are using the J271 main relay, and pinout is matching according to ELSA WD.
Bootrom version is matching as well between ARZ and APU. Output following: Code: C:\Users\...>ME7Check.exe VW_Golf_4_1.8T_ARZ_06A906032AR_0007_0261206436_1037352758.bin I will try to find a matching definition file for 018B and flash back to APU software, but I doubt that it will work, as it needs main relay as well. Title: Re: Golf 4 1.8t AGU converted to ME7 - Main relay DTC Post by: BlackT on November 20, 2019, 04:11:04 AM I have APU engine with 4B0 906 018 and it does not use ECM relay.
Try to upload original file to your ECU and see what will hapen. Bdw. It looks like this method for same bootloader version work only on 1Kb ECUs, as I said I am still pionir and I am also in learnig procesa. So don't mind me if some informations are not 100% true Title: Re: Golf 4 1.8t AGU converted to ME7 - Main relay DTC Post by: sda2 on November 20, 2019, 05:34:26 AM Okay, I just found out, that there are two kind of APU engines, one without J271 and one with it, the change was 05/1999.
So you have 4B0906018B running without a relay? Then this seems to be the older version and missing the relay output. Do you have a definition file for that version, like an XDF or OLS? Title: Re: Golf 4 1.8t AGU converted to ME7 - Main relay DTC Post by: BlackT on November 20, 2019, 05:56:04 AM No I(my friends) have A4 APU 4B0 906 018
And TT 8N0 906 018 AB both of them are W/O ECM relay For both of them you have def here on forum http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=12771.0;topicseen Here is one and other I can upload or you can find it Title: Re: Golf 4 1.8t AGU converted to ME7 - Main relay DTC Post by: sda2 on November 20, 2019, 06:27:10 AM The original file on the ECU was 4B0906018B 0004, the one you suggest is without B at the end and revision 0001.
I will try the file anyways. Maybe it'll work. Title: Re: Golf 4 1.8t AGU converted to ME7 - Main relay DTC Post by: sda2 on November 20, 2019, 06:30:47 AM Here is the WD I was refering to, APU engine from Passat with J271
Title: Re: Golf 4 1.8t AGU converted to ME7 - Main relay DTC Post by: BlackT on November 20, 2019, 07:58:42 AM 8E0 418 AB with original file (no ECM relay DTC)
(https://i.postimg.cc/bSGDJYTh/20191120-154647.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bSGDJYTh) And with file from ecu that in original have ECM relay (https://i.postimg.cc/56VbjNpS/20191120-153908.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/56VbjNpS) Title: Re: Golf 4 1.8t AGU converted to ME7 - Main relay DTC Post by: sda2 on November 21, 2019, 12:47:41 AM Engine runs without DTC! Thank you very much!
Now I only have to find out why my ECUs screw up the relay check. We successfully put another 018B into a TT APX, that also has the relay and its working there. Is there a way to supress the relay check by configuration value changes? Title: Re: Golf 4 1.8t AGU converted to ME7 - Main relay DTC Post by: sda2 on January 16, 2020, 04:13:00 AM I disassembled the 4B0906018 SW0001 and verifed that the main relay diagnosis is completely missing from the program code.
I will try to "nop" the 32AR firmware at the subroutine call and report back. And I modified a second 6018B ecu where I added the HR output signal connection. Title: Re: Golf 4 1.8t AGU converted to ME7 - Main relay DTC Post by: sda2 on September 07, 2020, 02:31:47 PM Recently I had some free time and want to make a small update to this topic with a very successful outcome.
First I tried to trick the main relay diagnosis with calibration changes and was able to get rid of all main relay DTC. But the main issue, the throttle body alignment procedure still failed due to DTC P1564 "Under-Voltage during Basic Setting". A small look into the FR showed the math that was done to check for minimum voltage that is needed to start the alignment UB_UANL: ubuanlr := UB_UANL * SY_UBSQ_W I looked for it inside the code of my 06A906032AR 0007 disassembly and was able to locate it very quickly in subroutine sub_842288 that takes care of the TBA. Code: loc_845C24: Then I compared the size and look of that subroutine with my very incomplete disassembly of 4B0906018 0001 and found it to be sub_842288: Code: loc_842300: I converted the logic of that to the AR version, and tested it in car, but it lead to DTC P1559 "Fault in basic settings" and decided to make a completely different approach. There are three different voltages monitored: wub - Battery voltage wubr - Voltage measured at main relay output (Pin 121) wuhr - Voltage measured at main relay control pin (Pin 21) Then I checked for the subroutine that moves data into "wubr(_w)" and "wuhr" variables instead of utilizing it in the code and found sub_82F876 to be the ADC reading. Its pretty easy to understand thanks to DAMOS and some handy scripts from this board its well described. Here is the ADC read function for the relay voltages: (http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=16989.0;attach=32186) I decided to try what happens when I directly copy the battery voltage byte "wub" to "wubr" and "wuhr" and word "wub_w" to "wubr_w" like this: Code: loc_82F9FC: And it was a success! :) Without having to manipulate the main relay calibration, the throttle body alignment finished and the car started right up and runs perfect! Now you can finally enjoy a completely defined firmware on early, cheap ME7s. I will attach binaries and XDF (including patch) that will work plug and play. Maybe it'll help someone. Title: Re: Golf 4 1.8t AGU converted to ME7 - Main relay DTC Post by: Blazius on September 07, 2020, 04:30:21 PM Good job mate, nice of you to return with info.
Title: Re: Golf 4 1.8t AGU converted to ME7 - Main relay DTC Post by: aef on September 08, 2020, 06:43:17 AM Why not power pin21 and 121? isnt this enough?
Title: Re: Golf 4 1.8t AGU converted to ME7 - Main relay DTC Post by: sda2 on September 08, 2020, 08:29:09 AM I did, or better, I use the correct harness, but I found out in a very handy Excel sheet (Vari_ME75X.xls) that the early ME7 versions prior to C2-1 never came with main relays.
So the corresponding RAM variables were 0.0V all the time. Maybe Bosch didn't equip the PCB with the components needed for main relay diagnosis. Title: Re: Golf 4 1.8t AGU converted to ME7 - Main relay DTC Post by: dal on September 08, 2020, 10:18:00 AM I did, or better, I use the correct harness, but I found out in a very handy Excel sheet (Vari_ME75X.xls) that the early ME7 versions prior to C2-1 never came with main relays. So the corresponding RAM variables were 0.0V all the time. Maybe Bosch didn't equip the PCB with the components needed for main relay diagnosis. Could you share this excel sheet please? Title: Re: Golf 4 1.8t AGU converted to ME7 - Main relay DTC Post by: sda2 on September 08, 2020, 10:54:57 AM Sure :)
Title: Re: Golf 4 1.8t AGU converted to ME7 - Main relay DTC Post by: aef on September 09, 2020, 01:13:26 AM I did, or better, I use the correct harness, but I found out in a very handy Excel sheet (Vari_ME75X.xls) that the early ME7 versions prior to C2-1 never came with main relays. So the corresponding RAM variables were 0.0V all the time. Maybe Bosch didn't equip the PCB with the components needed for main relay diagnosis. i dont get it, maybe because of my english skills. you use ecu und corresponding harness from donor car and ran into which exact error? Title: Re: Golf 4 1.8t AGU converted to ME7 - Main relay DTC Post by: sda2 on September 09, 2020, 04:21:48 AM I use an AGU engine, with ARZ donor components and harness with an ECU from a Passat APU engine.
The early versions of ME7 (hardware revision C1-2) came with Passats and didn't have a main relay for the ignition coil supply voltage. That's why they don't have the analog-digital-converter pins hooked up. If you flash a newer ME7 software, it will report those voltages as 0.0V and run into throttle body adaption errors. To keep all diagnosis functions happy I changed the program code where the ADC is polled. Instead of polling the ADC channels PXAN13 and PXAN14, I simply copied the ignition key voltage RAM variable to the mentioned other ones. That solved every issue without messing with any of the main relay calibration values and allows anyone to run cheap 10-15€ ME7s with fully defined calibration space. Passat software worked okay-ish, but since the turbo is slightly different in transversal engines I wanted to run a Golf calibration on it. |