NefMoto

Like the title says I would like to know if anyone has experience with flashing an mbox S4 ecu file over a standard APB allroad 4Z7907551M ecu.

Im thinking it can be done and just change the manual to tip coding in vagcom? I currently have a stg2 file on the car now but its a bit aggressive for the owner (mother in law :) ).

any information is greatly appreciated.

EDIT: I found some information here: http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.0

I am almost convinced that it will work with the change in the soft coding, but i would hate to be wrong and have something go wrong.

As long as it is APB and not BEL (ME7.1.1), it should work.

What is the actual car you want to use it on?

M box on a TIP allroad?

yes i would like to use an m-box file on a tip allroad.

it is a 2001 which makes it an APB, it already has a L box file on it but its a stg2+ and its too aggressive. there arent a plethora of stg1 or stock tip tunes with sai, egt, o2 deletes so im trying to figure out of i can plop an m-box file on there which has those changes already made.

I could take the stock file and make the changes, but i dont have the plugin from mtx yet and im a broke-ass collge student with 2 b5's in my house and my mom-in-law's allroad lol.

it should work if i change the coding correct?

I wouldn't run M box software on a TIP. You might be able to get it to "work", but there are alot of differences that will make it sub-optimal.

What file are you trying to run?

AFAIK the binaries are different between "same vintage" manual/tip ECUs. For one, neither manual will let you re-code to tip or vice-versa. In addition, there is a proven fact that S4 tip requires L-box (I think it is L anyway) to run properly and manual requires M-box to run properly. I think you're SOL but please do try. Worst that could happen is that you will have to flash allroad stuff back onto the ECU or go with L-box from S4.

right now the car (2001 allroad apb) is running the stg2+ L box file that is running around here. Its way too aggressive for the driver.

Ultimately i would like to run a generic stock or stg1 s4 m box file on it since the files are abundantly available with checksums already calculated and deletes like sai, rear o2 and egt.

Ideally i would love to be able to calculate the checksums myself, but i am a broke college student and at this point i cannot afford the mtx plugin.

I have the original allroad file i could modify, but i dont have a way to calculate the checksums.

I may flash the m box on it and see if it can be recoded and drive properly.

i believe i saw something about the tcu being on the can bus on the s4wiki? if i had the original values for the recoding part of the tip to 6-speed conversion I think I would be golden.

heres the page im talking about: http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Tip_To_6spd_Conversion

The information:

Reprogramming
1. Ignition on but no start
2. Cluster Adaption, channel 60, set to 1025 (removes Transmission from CAN Bus)  <------- What is the original value?
 Ignition Off

3. ABS Use Tip login code : 07497, or 07397, 07597
ReCode to 6spd : 06395  <------- What is the original value?
Ignition Off

4. ECU If recoding a Tip ECU
Login with 11463
Recode to 6spd : 06711 <------- This should be 06755 for TIP Allroad. info here: Ross-Tech 2.7T Engine Coding (http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/2.7l_T_(AGB/AJK/APB/ARE/AZA/AZB/BEL/BES))
Ignition off

5. Ignition back on Clear codes in Cluster, ABS, ECU

6. ECU Throttle Body Adaption Set Block channel 60

The rosstech wiki seems to be missing the coding for s4 on the engine portion, but since its just 1 i guess its simple enough. Would love to know what 2, 3 and 4 are.

Im genuinely intrigued because if you can run a (stock) tip ecu file with a 6-speed gearbox, why not a 6-speed ecu (stock/stg1-2) file with a tip and recode?

Most of the reasoning here is that there isnt a wide availability of tuned files for the tip's, maybe this could be an option?

EDIT: I noticed after I posted that phila_dot has done some fine work and created some tip files for folks. I am still interested to see if this is a feasible option.

The one time I tried an M box file in an L box tip car the trans was stuck in 3rd gear / limp.

the problem is that the ECUs "don't take" recoding from tip-to-man and back. M-Box will only accept "manual" coding so you cannot switch it to auto, and vice versa. What you could do to see if it would work after all, is to flash L-box, ensure the ECU is coded for Auto and recode to auto if not, then flash M-box and NEVER RECODE THE ECU AGAIN as it will reset to manual. The EEPROM area which holds coding is not a part of normal programming flash so whatever is in there, will persist between different versions of programming.

This is your only remote chance to have auto programming while running m-box. Will m-box honor it? Maybe, who knows.

maybe i was unclear, the ecu is the original tiptronic box from the allroad - 4Z7907551M. it is now running the L-box 2+ tune, so "it" knows its a tip.

if i put the m-box file with the required deletes on it, it 'should' keep the tip coding?

crap shoot. Maybe, maybe not. It all depends if M-box has necessary code activated in it or not. Chances are that all it needs is proper adaptation set as the binary code is almost identical between boxes sans stuff moved around when they compiled it into assembly. M-box itself doesn't allow for switching adaptation to tip, that's the way they programmed them.

But if inherit an ECU with tip adaptation on it or you switch adaptation to tip with tip programming and then flash m-box, a miracle might happen.

Just port the M box tune over to L box. Simple. I don't get what you're trying to do here.

I dont have stock or stg1 L box tune for this car with the required sai, egt and rear o2 delete. I can do the deletes, but I cant calculate checksums.

I have m-box files that have the deletes done already so i was trying to bypass having to have someone checksum the files or whatever. I will buy the plugin, I am broke at the moment and my wife would scream if i told her i spent money on a "tuning" item lol.

ill just make the mods to the file I have that came from the car originally and upload it to get checksummed.

Thanks for all the help guys, didnt mean to cause anyone problems.

Upload whatever you need to the checksum requests and I will fix them for you tonight. It's just not worth the potential problems trying to run the M box software on a Tip. There are alot of differences that will affect performance.

thanks, i will upload the files. I appreciate it.

i found a 3- tune for bosch maf, but its for a manual and I want to do it on a L-box/tip. What do I need to switch over and could you do check sums?

Here is the 3- and the stock S4 L box

I responded in one of your other threads. Copy over the modified maps from the d-box to the l-box. If you need the checksums updated, I will do it for you. I can't in good conscience do the work for you.

How do i know which are the modified tables where? Please help me understand and I'll do the work. I'm trying to get it done tonight. Whats your email?

There so many thing I see that might need changing I have no clue. Copy over boost/fuel/timing etc? All the stuff under each category?

You do know 3- is for k04 turbos with stock fueling (injectors, pump, and maf are all stock). If you have k03's look for a stage 2 (or 2+). If you search a bit corradovolksb has an L-box posted based off of NVR's stage 2++. Reading through your old posts it looks like you want a flash and go file as you've asked these questions before and don't appear to have taken the initiative.

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=1688.60 (http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=1688.60)

That being said, until you TRY, you aren't going to get any help. Stop digging up old threads, read, and if you still can't figure it out post ONE thread with a specific question. Everything you need to know has been posted here many times over. All of your questions are answered in the tuning wiki.

Stop what you are doing, and find a pro.

Or, learn how to do it from scratch, on your own, without copying somebody else's tune.

All of the information is there.

anyone know why i CANT flash or read my apb allroad? its telling me security access rejected.
what am i not catching here?

Try fast init, and if that doesn't work, defeat the immobilizer first.

tried fast init no luck either. how would i go about defeating immo?

I'm in the process of writing a step by step on that very subject.

Here's a quick explanation.

Go to: http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=1168.0title= (http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=1168.0title=), download the tool, and read the contents of the 95040. Save them somewhere in case you want to re-enable the immo. later. Then, put the ecu in boot mode
http://www.nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php/topic,344.0title,.html (http://www.nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php/topic,344.0title,.html) and write the attached file to the ecu. After that, you can bench flash the ecu without worrying about the immobilizer.

shit, i dont have a bench flash setup. no way to get around it without one im guessing

All you need is an IDE connector from a computer and a few alligator clips or female spade connectors and a powersupply (12v 1a would be sufficient.) It is VERY easy. The ecu and obd connectors are great for cleaning things up, but in a pinch you can deal without them. I can draw you a quick diagram if you can't find one anywhere else. LMK!

i dont think im up to all that. wish there some someone local who could do it for me haha.
or i could stop being cheap\pour and pay for a tune. looks like im stuck

where are you located? If you were local I'd do it for you. Literally a 3 minute job. Have you picked up a spare ecu yet?

im in WA and no, no spare. probably a good idea but for the going price of a used ecu i could almost get a jfonz tune.
thats why i was trying to use nefmoto

spare ecu's=100 bucks on ebay (4b0907551, 4z7907551, 8d0907551) me7.1. They all interchange.

might be worth it in the long run, but for the prices i see on ebay right now for those part numbers (avg of $175) plus the parts to build a bench flash setup (another 150 im sure) i could just get a jfonz tune for $330 just have to see if i can ship the ecu to them for tune and them ship it back or if its a licensed dealer only kind of thing because there are no nearby dealers for them

A bench flasher just takes an IDE connector and a couple alligator clips. Maybe 50 cents. As for the ecu, I can link you to several for 100-110 shipped.

If you wanna go j-fonz, go nuts. His name on here is judeisnotobscure.

i was looking at the "how to bench flash your s4 ecu" post. can i use just the power supply, ebay vag-com cable, alligator clips, wires?
im not sure what you mean by ide connector. and does the ECU have to be in boot mode? sorry im pretty new to all this.

update: went to my local radioshack and they want $50 for a 12v power supply..... guess im stuck in the mud.

You don't need a bench flash setup to put it in bootmode.


I thought the whole thing of this thread was that the tip and manual ECU's don't interchange?

Sure they do. The hardware is identical. It's the software that's an issue.

can i still flash using nefmoto in bootmode? sorry im pretty new to the more in depth features and capabilities

Nefmoto can't be used for bootmode flashing. All it'll do is connect (assuming you successfully grounded pin 24 of the flash chip) if you select the bootmode option, basically verifying that it has indeed been put into bootmode.

Nefmoto uses the vag programming protocols via OBD. Galletto is a bootmode tool that bypasses these, but will leave a DTC for "programming not finished" until the ecu is reflashed using the proper protocol.

Please, please do a bit of reading. All of these questions are answered in stickies. If, after having read, you still have questions, I will be happy to answer them to the best of my abilities.

So writing the .bin, the 95040, and doing soft coding completely switches everything from Auto to Manual (and back)?  I am just looking for confirmation, as back in April Julex was skeptical (and I think he has some experience with trying this). I believe that SteveKen was having issues with the soft coding sticking on his RS6 ME71.1 as well (I might be wrong though).

Jibberjive:

As far as I can tell, yes. It might be worth noting that of the m-box ecu's I've played with none would accept any deviation from the factory softcoding. NONE. The only way I was able to physically change the soft coding is by flashing a newer a6 bin, then verifying I could change the soft coding, then RE-flashing the m-box bin. At that point the soft coding was 06611 again, but it would accept changes (06712 was my goal, and after flashing a 4b0907551aa bin, then reverting back to the m-box, it took). Attached is a screenshot of an m-box with 06752 soft coding, and everything works properly using it.

AND!!!

Correct manual transmission softcoding for a NA 4.2 with NA flash. Note: this isn't possible with vcds, and it isn't a euro s6/s8 file. It is the original A6 file, properly softcoded.

I don't see why this wouldn't work on an rs6, but currently I don't have an rs6 to test it on-lol.

(http://i49.tinypic.com/i1mgpi.jpg)

Because the RS6 ECU only has settings for automatic gearbox.

The fact that you hijack some soft coding numbers in there, does not mean anything.
It does not mean ECU is actually working in manual mode.

As does the NA 4.2l a6, but it eliminated the "missing message from TCU" DTC, and esp/abs were once again functioning. Granted it isn't using manual specific maps, but I consider this to be a success.

Am I wrong here? You sir seem to know an awful lot about this sort of thing, and I'd appreciate the input.

While I agree that it's not PERFECT, it seems a viable alternative to leaving the tcu connected and dealing with the dtc's as is currently done (by those who don't get a pro to tune).

That means that ECU can be used for manual and auto. It has dual coding inside.
This is not the case for the RS6. You can code it to whatever you want, it's not going to work, and forget the stock esp/abs working also.

I'm not arguing, I don't want it to seem that way.

The NA a6 4.2 was never offered with a manual trans, and simply recoding via vcds doesn't work. You're saying the ecu still contains manual specific maps, despite it never being offered as an option?