NefMoto

Im trying to figure out why my IDC are climbing so high compared to other logs I been seeing. Other logs hang around 80% but mine is kind of concerning and seems abnormal.

I was wondering if I need to upgrade my injectors to my 52lb ev14 on hand as I plan to anyways cause im going BT soon but im still waiting for my wideband gauge before I get in to that, well its coming today so thats im reaching out

is there somthing wrong here?. Ive heard to switch to a wideband ecu but im alrdy familiar and comfortable with the one I got

narrowband wot fueling is no mystery.

The answer is: your o2 sensors are not used during wot. switching to wideband does not change this; if something is wrong, you'll just get huge lambda corrections.

Interesting and thanks for the response. would MLHFM have to be touched or is 120% idc acceptable in its current state?

Let me get this straight: you propose that in order to prevent running out of injector, you tell the ECU it just needs to use less injector?

No, i'd get a tailpipe sniffer to see where you're at.

If MLHFM were that far off you'd see it in your LTFTs.

And it would indicate a hardware problem, not necessarily an overscaled MLHFM.

No not at all, I was thinking I should start trying to get my 52's dialed in if im running out on stocks?

*Edit WB Gauge is on the way

and gotcha ill have to do some digging on LTFT

yes, absolutely 100% this.

So I got my WB gauge in today and I decided to install it in to rear 02 bung since I coded it out in CDKAT & CWLSHA years ago and never had a problem since.

Thing is I removed the sensor and I cant remember if I touched ESKONF but now im throwing p1118 open circuit. I dont have an axis made up for it but I know where it is. I have FF FF 00 (30) FF F8 33 should (30) be FF or 00? OR should I just put it out in Error class?

Anyways I went out today took some logs and got familiar with what my Afr is doing, live right in front of me and found that lamsbg is saying the same thing my gauge is telling me. 10.2 at WOT just dosent seem right to me and I believe I should be around target?

Im going to install my ev14 52lb and try to get them set in but as a simple crash course, do I set KRKTE to hit stoich of starters?
In the past out of curiosity I blindly threw em in and set KRKTE using the equation on wiki and once I finally got it started it was way to rich and would foul out spark around 4k rpm.

I have no idea what you are going on about.

Too many vague statements and not enough logs.

No mention of TVUB either.

Sorry. long story short and where im really trying to get at is when I install my injectors and get it started do I just lower the starting point value of KRKTE(assuming its really rich) until I get requested.

as for TVUB I was able to get it started and idle going by the spreadsheet uve posted in the other threads

This is where im at?

1st log is @ idle with only KRKTE set to 0.052074

*idle way to lean @16.2 and at times would stumble so low it would stall.

2nd log @ idle with the same KRKTE and TVUB set according to the spreadsheet for the same ev14 550cc injectors @4bar

*idle alittle better, didnt fall but stayed around 13.1

3rd log was a short pull with the same KRKTE and TVUB but it was so rich I let off and limpped it back home.

So question is do I just adjust KRKTE to get AFR Desired to follow AFR target?

You dont need to log to fix fuel trims (except to watch O2 voltages, more on that later)

You can just watch stft/ltft in vcds.

None of what you are doing makes much sense. You have narrow down what the issue is

1) bad hardware (intake/vac leak, bad injector, pump, filter, fpr, MAF, etc)
2) bad MAF scaling (MLHFM)
3) bad injector scaling (KRKTE/TVUB)

3) is the least of your worries if you are fairly certain you are close to theoretical for both KRKTE and TVUB. The car should start, warmup, idle, and run part throttle within 5-10% STFT/LTFT with no misfires or stumbling. If your injectors are very different from stock, you may have coldstart/warmup issues due to wall wetting, but once the motor is up to temp, it should run fine.

If that is not the case, STOP RIGHT THERE and figure out what else is wrong.

Also would be handy to post wideband logs during idle and constant part throttle (pick a load point that is still closed loop)

Finally, log NB O2 voltages.

Also you really should fix your boost. Right now, it isn't worth fixing though until you get fueling right for part/idle

Im going to have to go over 1) alittle more...

vac inhg looks weird @ 11 but I thought it might have been from when I got rid of pretty much all emission related stuff in the past. I did run compressed air thru the system today when I swapped out my injectors to make sure it was sealed and nothing seemed to hiss at me.

MAF is fairly new, the injectors has constant ohms thru out all 6, pump never showed signs of failure but I have a walbro 255lph that i was going to couple with the injectors if needed, same with the fpr and I have a 3bar on hand if 550cc @4bar was overkill and the filter I have never changed out but I will now that uve mentioned it.

2)I never messed with MLHFM and using wiki as a guide I was assuming I didnt have to with a stock MAF

3) I felt like I was getting somwhere with but in all honesty not being at work the only means of logging I have is me7logger and my newly installed WB gauge. With the new values it did start right up, warmed up on time, idled "ok" and part throttle seemed good when I cruised it back home.

sorry for being so noobish and not making sense, I never had to mess with fuel until now that I put together a BT kit

550s @4 bar on a stock pump that "never showed signs of failure" and "nothing seemed to hiss at me".

Smoke test it to find leaks.  At -11 vac, you'll have a leak post TB.  Running 550s at 4 bar on a stock pump is crazy too.

Go wideband

That's utterly pointless when debugging hardware issues. They'll show up instantly in LTFTs/STFTs as long as he doesn't got WOT, which you shouldn't do until your fueling is sorted anyway.

Wideband is useful for WOT tuning, however.

Im sorting out hardware today. I have a good feeling its coming from my block off plate that I made. Compressed air was the easiest method I made to check for vac leaks when refering to hiss. will also drop in a filter just because it needs one.

If running 550 at 4bar on a stock pump is crazy should I run my 3bar till I get everything sorted or should I go ahead and drop in my Walbro 255lph??

rightnow its starts right up, it idles and its getting fuel (alot for that matter)
 

holy!..I pulled my fpr today and it had 5 bar engraved in it from AWE(must of been the PO)..so Im going to go ahead and run the 3bar..redo the values in KRKTE & TVUB and see what I get. Well after I go over the Vac lines which im doing now.


*After seeing that Im curious to see what kind of pump is in there but I pulled out stock injectors so idk. 

Fixed my boost leak (now @-22hg), found acouple lines split and fixed the block off. Dropped in the new filter(sucked), got rid of the recently discovered 5bar and replaced it with 3bar.  flashed in KRKTE @ 0.06012 acccording to the changed flow rate and then went back to stock with TVUB (didnt like new values @ idle).

Idle looked better at 14.6, part throttle seemd better hanging around 13.8-14.0 and then went WOT for acouple seconds (sorry had to) and that went rich but not as rich as b4 11.1-10.8.


1st log is at idle

2nd log is at part throttle

3rd is very shortly at WOT


Do I just edit KRKTE to fix WOT

Again, you dont need to log to fix KRKTE/TVUB

watch STFTs and LTFTs on VCDS.

Do not bother doing any wot tuning until you get part/idle correct.

So in general once STFTs and LTFTs are within spec at idle and PT, should WOT follow...roughly?

Not trying to jump the gun here just somthing to think about as I progress and got everything in front of me.

Exactly this. WOT should be pretty on target. if it is not, it likely means your fueling isn't keeping up (generally pump).

Thanks alot for the advice so far, prob wouldnt have found that 5bar anytime soon if you didnt send me down the line of hardware.

As of rightnow im waiting for an email back from Ross so I can be unlocked and get my trims inline. At the same time ive been going back and forth to the bench on a spree(twice really) of trial and error making very minimum changes(not much at all) cause my WB gauge has been very handy.

Question about TVUB. When scaling (in the future), my axis are set at 8 10 12 (14) 16 and looking at logs UB seems to operate mainly between 13.6-13.8v. should I change the axis accordingly or does it not have that much effect between 13.6 and 14?

     

You should change the axis data to whatever you have datasheet for. If you dont have a datasheet, guess. You may hit 8-10v some day

I need some help.

Did what you and Daz said in 1 of the stickies and drove around for 15mins and watched VCDS (sorry bout the cut out on the pic but thrs no data behind it anyways) and trims look way off.

Tried acouple diffrent KRKTE and found 0.0716 to be best. Part throttle looks good up to a certain load point by the actual AFR. But as soon as I let off or sitting at a light it gets really rich beyond my gauge.

should I be scaling TVUB mainly at the 12 to 14v points or is there another approach?

well I tweak TVUB with some success. Didnt like start up so much but it idles at 14.6. Gone logging...

Its alittle better but still go rich as soon as I dip into WOT, maybe I should drop in my Walbro 255lph?

something is very very wrong. Go back to stock TVUB, make sure part throttle is right.

If anything, you should be lean at idle not rich on stock TVUB vs EV14

Yeah I think I found a acceptable starting point at idle it’s now at 15.1-14.6. Even part throttle will hang around 13.8 but after 3sec into WOT it’ll fall into 11.1-10.6 b4 I let off then it’ll come back into place.

It’s getting better cause it pulls harder at part throttle then it did with stock inj at wot. Just wasn’t sure if I should make anymore change b4 upgrading the pump?

this makes zero sense. Idle should be 14.7 because that is the point to having fuel trims, unless you are so far off they're maxed one way or another. If they aren't maxed out, it just means your wideband o2 isn't getting enough flow at idle to get a clean reading.

I don't think you understand why you have a wideband: it's for metering your AFR when lambda control is off.

Also, you still haven't logged o2 sensor voltages for some reason.

It does actually sit at 14.7 at idle (well before I installed the pump) but just goes rich when I pass a certain load point. I position the WB in the rear o2 location 16inches away from the hotside which cant be less the 6in or more then 36in according to the instructions. I got it for starters to make some sense of whats going on when I swapped over injectors.

I put in the Walbro just to make sure I have good pressure.


I uploaded a video just to show what its doing at Idle. This is maybe the 3 start up after I installed the pump. just not sure where to go next.

 https://youtu.be/eMyhB533kO0

You need to figure out if that load point is KRKTE vs TVUB related or open loop/closed loop related.

I just got back after that pump install, it did some good.

It was right where I wanted it in all areas except WOT. I want to say open loop but cant really back that up at the moment beside monitoring the actual and the way it felt...   

could it be my Maf (66mm ID) just not being able to read pass a certain load point and in return just dump fuel(just a thought)?

got all new hardware filter, fpr and installed the 255lph..and all areas look good until 2sec into WOT goes from 11.7 to 10.3 then would foul out. Im trying acouple diffrent values in KRKTE and TVUB, I could get idle and PT spot on and get WOT to hold for a duration but in the end just ends up rich. Im to the point I flash 3 ecus at a time

kinda lost. just a regular tech/enthusiast pointed out that my K04 might not be efficient enough to run 52lb? if that the case Im dropping in my TD05 and starting there..

That sounds like a boost leak



that makes zero sense. That has literally nothing to do with your fueling problems.

welp im going back to looking for leaks...

Im back on my journey to try to figure out the rich condition @ WOT that i was having. I ended up installing my bigger turbo setup cause I figured my problem was rich so why not. plus I figured I might as well have everything set up for this setup..

excuse my ignorance as im still trying to get an understanding dialing in fuel.

So I started where I left off with the 550cc, 255lph all on 3bar just a bigger turbo. KRKTE @ 0.0811 and TVUB set to run Stoich @ idle and PT to follow accordingly. Of course everything is good till I go WOT, then its rich city (10.0 and beyond).

I took a glance @ my trims at the time via VCDS (32 & 33) to find 32 is -25% and 33 is climbing to +17%. So I got to thinking its a lean condition so let me throw some fuel at it via KRKTE. Changed values to 0.0768 let it adapt than things start to look WAY better. Idle and PT still the same but WOT is now starting to hold at 11.5 and I can finally get it all the way thru a gear without it breaking up.

So im like ok, I might finally be getting somewhere BUT I pull up my trims and 32 still eventually gets to -25% (my guess is the limit) but now 33 waves between -1 and +1%, thats where I want to be right? (as solely for STFT)

I know everybody's thinking boost leaks. I spent a day trying different methods with carb spray, compressed air and I even let it smoke for 30mins and sealed every little thing I could find (2 spots) and Vac @-23hg. I was than thinking my 02 maybe going up but its reading and its not even used in open loop, right? Now im starting to point my fingers at the MAF but there no evidence (as far as I know) its faulty other then it'll hesitate alittle sometimes holding it steady @ a certain load point..


Sorry for writing a chapter and my noobish ways but im just still trying to figure this out. This is a short log that I manged to get in traffic and boost looks crazy cause Im running it off spring pressure for now (hence the fault), I figure I get fueling right before working on boost

Your MAF seems pretty underscaled (ps_w vs pvdks_w), perhaps thats related.

You might also have a vac leak (sucking in unmetered air), your MAF readings are suspicious compared to your boost.

Iirc krkte for 550s about 0.05x

There is something completely wrong with your hw if you run it with 0.08

And again
Absolutely stupid idea to tweak narrowband on a custom hw when you have an option to go wideband for a few bucks

Its possible or im almost pretty sure it could be because of the location of the MAF with my new setup, Somewhat restricted with like 3inchs between the screen and the core support but it was the only solution at the time with the material on hand but im fixing it soon and maybe drop in a new unit as well.

As for the vac leak. If there is one its hidden VERY well. I looked really hard for one and at this point, Im familiar with every vac source there is thru out my bay..not saying there isnt 1.


Interesting..Ive used acouple equations and a few GUIs floating around here and some tinkering to come up with that number. But since 0.0768 gave me better results I could be heading in that directions..This is a 1.8t and im running it on 3bar fpr??


I get it and Ill probably eventually switch. Im just kinda ducking the software leg work to switch as my method of tuning is using OLS demo with my pretty solid KP put together over the years(to edit with) to manually entering bits in tunerpro to coming up with a bin to flash and it gets pretty tedious


All and all if I were to leave my laptop home and go for a run rightnow its somewhat ok to drive. With the TD05 it gets off its ass @ a reasonable time, I left trims as is since it relearned with 0.07x and it hold 11.5 afr up until late 6krpm, of course boost is ran off spring so its not overshooting and as a piece of mind my last WOT run pulled -3* dwkrz on a somewhat hot day w/o wmi.

but when I do look at trims and such and the feedback im getting from you guys I know its NOT right.. and efficient, so I dont want to ride with it.

 

   

Decide to jump back on my pig rich condition at WOT and I think I solved it.. I ended up putting my maf sensor in a 3inch housing, scaling it thru maf adjust, centering LTFT @ PT down to -3.6% (so far) and STFT dead @ 0% as long as I can look at it while moving. Now WOT AFR's are exactly how I want them going from 12.8 majority of the time and tapering down to 11.8 by redline. Never felt it run this way since the new setup

It dose hesitate slightly tapping on the ped at a light and was thinking I should fix it thru TVUB but STFT's are both zero and idle is at Stoich soo not sure which area to smooth it out in.