NefMoto

Seems like it's maxed @ 191.250??

Is that a physical limitation in the ECU or is there another parameter somewhere that needs to be changed that would allow higher numbers?

I'd love to get more control over the ignition timing... having the last row @ 191 but hitting over 220 leaves a lot to be desired

I'm fairly sure KFZW(2) use 8 bit rl which maxes out at 191.25.

That's what I figured...

that sucks big time IMO.... another reason against ME7

FWIW, I noticed that the ECU in the 2003+ Allroad/A6 (4Z7907551R) have more resolution in KFMIRL (16 load points) and also are not limited like the other ME7 ECU's in KFZW either... so I assume it's more 16-bit then 8-bit.

I'm curious if it's possible that the newer ECU will also accept a bigger MAP sensor (maybe that value is also 16-bit)?  Anyone know off hand how I could check?

Timing maps in my ME7.5 1.8t is 16bit.

Eurocode is offering a fueling kit for these ME7.5 1.8t's which includes a 3bar MAP sensor.

yes the ME7.5 1.8T's are 16bit... just like the later A6/allroad ECU's...

What I would like to know is if the ECU can really see the 3 BAR or if the sensor is just scaled in the ECU

Yes it can really see it, i think the 16 bit ecu's limit out at 5bar or somethign as the hard limit.

when you scale, you just get a slope of the sensor at two points voltage=pressure.  use the slope and the min and max voltages supplied on data sheet or ripped out of another file.

thats what ecu uses.  so it can be calibrated properly, and it can be read properly by ecu that supports 16bit.  I am NOT SURE on 1.8t's if they max out at 5 bar as physical limit like some other ecu's i work with.

well that is some pretty good news...

I just spent the last hour comparing the ECU pinouts... a direct swap is not possible.. but I believe a swap with the correct BEL engine harness is possible... that along with the more advanced ECU and a bigger MAP sensor = win in my books...

I'm getting a BEL engine harness and auto ECU coming to me soon so I will probably try is out in the next little while as soon as I confirm all of the fusebox connections are going to be correct (I believe they will be).

Too bad it's not wideband, that would be perfect then.

FWIW, it seems the even under fueling you can take advantage of 16-bit values... so all in all this is what high HP S4's should be running... complete control over timing, fueling and boost... it's leaps and bounds better then the crummy ME7.1 we currently deal with.

to bad we cant recompile and make that a reality :/

so can this be done?

can what be done? recompile?  unlikely w/o source...

use a ME7.1.1 ECU in an S4 sure, with the BEL wiring harness and a few changes.  That is my plan for the very near future.

Really curious where this may go.  I am having very bad thoughts about swapping in a B8 S4 motor and building a turbo setup for it.  This may derail me for a while.

I need to look at pinouts myself. I ordered BEL harness + BEL head covers for my build. Initially it was only because of FSI coils but now there is another reason for it :). Can 7.1.1 really properly see higher pressure  MAP sensor's output correctly?

RaraK says yes (I'm assuming he's logged it to know for sure), otherwise I would say the only real way to tell is to check the RAM variables like Tony did for the M-box.

But it's obvious the ME7.1.1 is far superior so it wouldn't surprise me if it did in fact was able to read above 2550 mbar because it uses a 16-bit variable like everything else.

Do it. You wont.

oh I will :)

I received my BEL harness and ECU yesterday, I have a spare S4 harness that I will use to merge the fusebox plugs with and then I need two more FSI coils and some time to do the modifications and swap. 

I'm hoping to have my HPX sensor this week as well, just need to build an intake arm for it that I can weld the sensor bung to.  Now I just have to get a 3 or 4 BAR Bosch MAP sensor that fits in the stock TTB location.  Do you have any part no's by chance?

Sweeeeet!

What MAP do you want to run? You will prob be limited to a TDI MAP sensor. They have both 3 bar and 4 bar. Pick one and Ill try to find a part number.

Since they're absolute, let's go 4 BAR as I do plan on running over 28.5-29 psi eventually

Here you go:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=298404

RyanP should be able to get you what you need, just PM him. He gets all the cool Euro parts.

If you want a link to a US store:
http://shopping.boraparts.com/product_info.php?products_id=278
(I know the owner personally and recommend him 100%).



I'm interested in seeing how this turns out :)

I have a hand full of brand new dealer 4 bar map sensors. Shipping to the US wont be much, certainly not $200 ;) Let me know if you want one.

Well, I am no sure that the BEL ecu actually can log above 2550mbar. It appears to be using the same 16 bit variables as ME 7.1 which top out at that pressure reading... At least according to ME7 logger. Unless you can prove that the internal value passed between modules is indeed 16 bit and with higher max value, I am afraid it is still old 8 bit thing that is the real limit.

Hmmmmmm.... You can always just scale it and be done with it.

I think if it's 16-bit like you say we're good to go.. according to Tony in this post: http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=110.msg400#msg400

the M box is limited to 2550mbar because it's stored as an 8-bit value (255 max).

Well, a way to settle this would be for somebody with BEL allroad to shorten their 5v to signal wire therefore simulating 5v output on pressure sensor. You don't have to start the car, just fire up me7 logger and collect some data with pvdks_w.

I don't see how it can log more than 2550 mbar if pvdks_w in BEL is also unsigned word with same scalar which gives a max possible value of 2550 (mbar).

I am not trying to be pessimistic...I just think that nothing improved on this front with Me 7.1.1. But I would be very impressed if it indeed worked as we think it might.

I checked the 250kpa sensor data sheet (http://rb-aa.bosch.com/boaasocs/modules-pdf/Bosch_AA_Sensoren_PDFGen.dll?db=BOAAMDB02PRD7&MV_ID=593&CL_ID=20&Prod_ID=827&filename=0261230245.pdf) and a 400kPa sensor data sheet (http://rb-aa.bosch.com/boaasocs/modules-pdf/Bosch_AA_Sensoren_PDFGen.dll?db=BOAAMDB02PRD7&MV_ID=593&CL_ID=20&Prod_ID=822&filename=0281006051.pdf) and both pressure sensors output 4.5v at full scale. Unless there is same kind of correction factor in the ecu I think that changing sensors will underscale the readings.

edit
why not patch code to use rl_w instead of rl in kfwz? just checked, I think it can be done

If you do, post a link for sure! I had the same bad thoughts when I read that the 3.0l motor can be had for ~$4k.  The toughest part of that would be tuning though, as the cracking of the ECU is really fresh and all of the tuners hold the secrets with their life.

He's scared. He won't do it ;D

Just shorting to 5v would won't.. you would have to rescale the sensor values in the ECU first obviously.

5V = max for the sensor... 5V by default would be 2.5 BAR

Yeah, realized that after I posted. But you see where the problems is right? There is no room in variables for higher boost as they are the same as ME7.1. Which is the 8bit internal variable that gets passed around the modules?

Not idea man... like I said to be sure someone would have to disassemble that parameter just like they did with the M-box.... I assume you're saying this because you're going by me7L, but maybe me7L is just working with me7.1.1 the same way as me7.1? 

I haven't personally looked at ME7.1.1 but I'm pretty sure the fact that the pressure variable is 16bit doesn't help you at all.

However, it DOES give you a bit more resolution if you want to try underscaling your MAP value (like what tuners did with load in ME7.1 in the beginning).

As i've mentioned before, you might have problems near the zero point, but there are very few places (compared to load) where absolute MAP pressure is used in ME7, so i really do think underscaling the MAP signal will be fairly easy.

I'm not even sure that it is 16-bit :)  Hopefully Tony will be able to chime in and see if there is a way to tell for sure.


If the larger MAP sensor doesn't pan out with this ECU that isn't too big of a deal for me.. I can easily just use an external boost controller instead.

My main interest in using ME7.1.1 is the larger maps and the ability to properly scale the fueling and timing maps for the load I will be running.  Being stuck @ 191.25 in ME7.1 is dreadful IMO. 

So is anyone with some disassembly knowledge able to have a look in the binary and confirm if we can use a larger MAP with the Me7.1.1 ECU?