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Title: DIY TCU controller Post by: BlackT on October 26, 2021, 11:59:07 PM I can't find good combination to make 2.7TT work with 6HP19 and OEM parts
So I start to think about making my own box that will send CAN-BUS data to TCU. It will take data from ME7 and emulate something like MED9 It will take a lot of work but for now as I can see from data I collected it is possible. Is there any checksum mesage that ECU send to TCU? There is some checksumm at MOTOR 6 Title: Re: DIY TCU controller Post by: prj on October 27, 2021, 07:23:24 AM Eh???
Use ME7.1.1 and no problem. Title: Re: DIY TCU controller Post by: fknbrkn on October 27, 2021, 11:46:51 AM Whats the problem?
Ecu sends can version and some engine data in motor6 iirc Just modify it to match tcu requirements Title: Re: DIY TCU controller Post by: Blazius on October 27, 2021, 12:05:46 PM ME7.1.1 c167 with wideband and implement prj's boost control :) profit?
Are there any(probably) me7.1.1 c167 6 cylinder configs with wideband apart from the 07k c167 hardware ? Someone could do a project. Interesting stuff. Title: Re: DIY TCU controller Post by: BlackT on November 02, 2021, 01:35:21 AM Eh??? Which one? Few people on this forum try with BEL ECU, but as far I know no one have made a full working combinationUse ME7.1.1 and no problem. Whats the problem? Ecu sends can version and some engine data in motor6 iirc Just modify it to match tcu requirements I thought about that, but I am not sure it can work that easy. ME7.1.1 c167 with wideband and implement prj's boost control :) profit? Are there any(probably) me7.1.1 c167 6 cylinder configs with wideband apart from the 07k c167 hardware ? Someone could do a project. Interesting stuff. I didn't understand you? Title: Re: DIY TCU controller Post by: Blazius on November 02, 2021, 03:47:58 AM I didn't understand you? Mostly unrelated to your original question but you can convert a 2.7T to me7.1.1 and gain wideband but you loose boost control. Now that issue can be solved with prj's boost control for c167. What I dont know for sure is if there is a me7.1.1 wideband 6 cyl hardware with c167 because ST10 sucks. Title: Re: DIY TCU controller Post by: _nameless on November 02, 2021, 03:53:59 AM ME7.1.1 c167 with wideband and implement prj's boost control :) profit? mk4 24v vr6 2.8 and 3.2. also, touareg 3.2Are there any(probably) me7.1.1 c167 6 cylinder configs with wideband apart from the 07k c167 hardware ? Someone could do a project. Interesting stuff. Title: Re: DIY TCU controller Post by: _nameless on November 02, 2021, 03:55:57 AM Mostly unrelated to your original question but you can convert a 2.7T to me7.1.1 and gain wideband but you loose boost control. Now that issue can be solved with prj's boost control for c167. What I dont know for sure is if there is a me7.1.1 wideband 6 cyl hardware with c167 because ST10 sucks. 2.7t bel and bes are me7.1.1 and narrowband. I do believe the 3l v6 30v is wideband Title: Re: DIY TCU controller Post by: Blazius on November 02, 2021, 03:57:50 AM 2.7t bel and bes are me7.1.1 and narrowband. I do believe the 3l v6 30v is wideband Indeed BEL and BES are narrowband they cannot be used. The 3.0L engine one is not useable mostly due to continuous VVT but maybe that can be sorted, maybe, who knows how many people left to experiment with these things. Trying to find a 2.8l/2.6/2.4 config that ran 7.1.1 with wideband Title: Re: DIY TCU controller Post by: BlackT on November 02, 2021, 07:43:20 AM I don't need wideband. It is not topic for this problem
Title: Re: DIY TCU controller Post by: BlackT on November 28, 2021, 02:42:37 AM Will 022906032GJ work with this gearbox and 2.7TT engine?
But there is again problem for 100% load limit Title: Re: DIY TCU controller Post by: _nameless on November 28, 2021, 07:57:38 AM Will 022906032GJ work with this gearbox and 2.7TT engine? This thread is 100% waste of space. All was covered already in another thread. Wtf, why would you think using vr6 ecu on a longitude engie configuration is in any way a good idea considering its not even that engine?But there is again problem for 100% load limit Title: Re: DIY TCU controller Post by: BlackT on November 30, 2021, 01:21:22 AM This thread is 100% waste of space. All was covered already in another thread. Wtf, why would you think using vr6 ecu on a longitude engie configuration is in any way a good idea considering its not even that engine? I didn't think, bad ideaIn other thread there is a swap 2.7TT in C6 and C6 gearbox with 3.0 petrol C6 software for gearbox. My plan is to use gearbox from B7 3.0 TDI on audi C5, I was planning to put gearbox from C6 but immo from gearbox make it really hard Title: Re: DIY TCU controller Post by: dus on February 04, 2022, 11:10:48 AM Whats the problem? Ecu sends can version and some engine data in motor6 iirc Just modify it to match tcu requirements CANVERS FMOTC CWGC these? what are the values in these ecu? 8E0910115Q or 8E0910115K Title: Re: DIY TCU controller Post by: BlackT on March 29, 2022, 11:29:27 PM I manage to run this gearbox even with ME7.1 ECU.
But I need to make can-bus emulator betwen ABS and rest of car. Beacuse 5.2 ABS won't acept coding when ECU is coded to 6hp gearbox I am yust wondering is there a way to raise Torque that ECU send to gearbox? What is that variable in ME7.1 I want to raise it a little bit, but don't want to touch MLHFM Is that mifa? Title: Re: DIY TCU controller Post by: fknbrkn on March 30, 2022, 12:30:29 AM Mdnorm
Title: Re: DIY TCU controller Post by: prj on March 30, 2022, 06:32:14 AM Mdnorm Changing it will not do anything whatsoever as microslip adjuster will re-adapt at the operating points and result in the exact same pressure as before.IRL/IOP must be linear and represent actual torque output. If they are all out of shape, then this is what causes issues. Title: Re: DIY TCU controller Post by: BlackT on March 30, 2022, 07:32:34 AM My trans slip and bounce about 0-160 rpm in slight acceleration below 2000 rpm
I have 3 DTC: for missing Electric parking brake, getway and accelerarion request(something about cruise) I will do full scan and post it here I was wondering can trans start adataption if have these DTC? So I figure out to raise pressure to clutch (I see it is realatated to input TQ) sending more TQ via can-bus. But as you say it didn't make any difference IRL/IOP must be linear and represent actual torque output. If they are all out of shape, then this is what causes issues. Title: Re: DIY TCU controller Post by: BlackT on March 30, 2022, 09:42:38 AM Mdnorm thank you ;)Title: Re: DIY TCU controller Post by: prj on March 30, 2022, 11:24:10 AM Except changing that value will not do anything. It will grab a bit harder for max half an hour, probably even less, re-adapt the 200nm point, and be back to exactly the same as before.
If you have stock file on the controller, just do TCU adaptation. Did you even check what the stallspeed is in your TCU file? Can be easily 1800-2000 on harder throttle push on some DQ250 variants, especially diesel ones. You are making a ton of assumption without understanding what the issue is. Changing MDNORM has never any positive effect on transmission operation. While it is true that changing it you can show more torque in linear fashion to transmission, it has no effect how much torque you show to DQ250, the only important part is that it is linear throughout the range. It is not like a ZF auto trans where there are maps for pressure based on engine torque. Almost nothing is done based on the absolute torque figure in the VAG DSG gearboxes. It simply does not matter. The only thing that matters is that it is not bent. Title: Re: DIY TCU controller Post by: BlackT on March 30, 2022, 12:37:29 PM But this is ZF6HP trans, N371 change pressure with torque. But after raising mlhfm for 10% and mdnorm from 600nm to 800nm didn't make much difference. I would say it is little better but far from ideal. maybe TQ is so bad that slip all time. I want to eliminate software problem before I dissamble gearbox. gerabox and tq are from junkyard so I dont have hystory of it. But it schould be about 250k km and this tq are know to fail at this milage
Code: Wednesday,30,March,2022,21:24:07:32264 Title: Re: DIY TCU controller Post by: BlackT on March 30, 2022, 12:44:53 PM and this is after raising MDNORM
Title: Re: DIY TCU controller Post by: prj on March 31, 2022, 04:03:19 AM Ah, sorry, if it is ZF6HP you are talking about then yes, increasing MDNORM will increase all shift pressures.
For some reason I thought this is about DQ250. But you should not need to do this. About the gearbox. If you have problems with torque converter slip oscillating in steady state (mostly can be seen in 6th gear driving on highway with cruise control) then most likely you just need the converter rebuilt, this is a typical problem on ZF6HP. They all start to do that when they are old. The torque converter slip is regulated to a target slippage in closed loop, the torque is mostly irrelevant, it is only looking at the slip and then regulating it... Title: Re: DIY TCU controller Post by: fknbrkn on March 31, 2022, 04:50:33 AM Keep in mind that there is a 630nm limit in canbus
If you set mdnorm value above this limit, ecu halves it value at canbus and iirc (it was few months ago and i didnt remember all details) trigger somewhere a corresponding bit. But when we plays with dsg+me7 it wont. Dsg saw exactly halved value (its for research purpose. No need to point me at 450nm hardcode limit and microslip things ::) ) Title: Re: DIY TCU controller Post by: BlackT on March 31, 2022, 06:14:13 AM ZF 6HP now see bigger TQ, you can see above in attachment. Same driving mode but trans see more TQ.
But I dont like to do things like this, it was only for research and to save trans if it can't make adataption by itself until I get rid of this 3 DTC. Shiffting above 2000 rpm is ideal and fast. But all problems I have is under 2000 rpm. Also when TC is locked at highway under 6th speed it stil slip about 32-64 rpm. Under full throotle it does not slip Can I use TC from 3.0TDI? Beacuse this 4.2 TC doesn't not have some damping effect, and I have really bad vibration in low rpms under load. If I use Torque connverter from 3.2 FSI I am not sure will it hold torque than 2.7 produce (K04)? Title: Re: DIY TCU controller Post by: prj on March 31, 2022, 08:43:29 AM Torque converter has different stall speeds and you are not going to be able to easily recalibrate it in the software.
If you want it to shift differently, instead of fucking with MDNORM just adjust the shift pressures for oncoming clutch and the ramp rates. And just repair the current torque converter, sounds like it's hosed from what you describe. You will not have somehow less vibration if you use a 3.0 TDI one... And also as was said above, do NOT change MDNORM higher than 600nm (630 to be exact) on ME7. Title: Re: DIY TCU controller Post by: BlackT on March 31, 2022, 09:19:40 AM Torque converter has different stall speeds and you are not going to be able to easily recalibrate it in the software. I am okay how trans shift, problem comes when torque converter is in regulation phase. Then rpm bounce, but not only bounce when rpm drop the whole car start to vibrate. Similar when on manual cars the presure plate does not have flatt surface and you are relaseing clutch. Or double mass flywheel is stuck. If you want it to shift differently, instead of fucking with MDNORM just adjust the shift pressures for oncoming clutch and the ramp rates. And just repair the current torque converter, sounds like it's hosed from what you describe. You will not have somehow less vibration if you use a 3.0 TDI one... And also as was said above, do NOT change MDNORM higher than 600nm (630 to be exact) on ME7. That vibration happen in every gear from 1000 to 1800 rpm, special uphill , if I hit full throtte it vibrate so much that whole car is shaking. It is like something is not in balance, so if my converter does not have this TDD(described in SSP I put in attachmet above) because it is frkm 4.2 V8 than reparing this TC will solve bounce and slip, but not vibrations. And that is reason why I want to put TC from V6 engine I saw that 630Nm limit in FR but anywhay I tried to put it to 800 and it worked. Trans see bigger TQ EDIT: here is proof, engine have stock map only changing MDNORM from 600 to 800 Edit 2: some facts: 1. I have Changed oil and filter in trans 2. After that I need to reset adataptions and trams will adapt by iself depending how worn it is 3. According to SSP transsmision will not start adataption as long there is a DTC in transsmision 4. I have dtc for can-bus getway,parking brake and ACC that I don't have time to solve right now 5. Until I don't solve this dtc and transsmision can start adataption I need car and I wanted to fix problem temoraly by raising pressure(torque on can-bus) 5. It is better, from 240 rpm slip now I am at 120 rpm slip maximum. But after all investigation I will need to rebuild TC and I can only hope that vibration is caused by worn out friction plate that closes TC Edit 3: same throttle, slight acceleration https://youtu.be/xQkWqPVUbG0 Title: Re: DIY TCU controller Post by: prj on April 01, 2022, 05:09:19 AM I am okay how trans shift, problem comes when torque converter is in regulation phase. Then rpm bounce, but not only bounce when rpm drop the whole car start to vibrate. Similar when on manual cars the presure plate does not have flatt surface and you are relaseing clutch. Or double mass flywheel is stuck. Your description is exactly what happens when TC need rebuild. The vibration is just already extreme phase of damage...That vibration happen in every gear from 1000 to 1800 rpm, special uphill , if I hit full throtte it vibrate so much that whole car is shaking. It is like something is not in balance, so if my converter does not have this TDD(described in SSP I put in attachmet above) because it is frkm 4.2 V8 than reparing this TC will solve bounce and slip, but not vibrations. And that is reason why I want to put TC from V6 engine Quote I saw that 630Nm limit in FR but anywhay I tried to put it to 800 and it worked. Trans see bigger TQ Yes it will work until you hit over 630nm torque in engine. Then torque will jump from 630nm to 316nm in 1 millisecond. Do you think the trans will be happy? :)Title: Re: DIY TCU controller Post by: Norwegian1.8T on April 01, 2022, 10:00:16 AM But after all investigation I will need to rebuild TC and I can only hope that vibration is caused by worn out friction plate that closes TC I had the exact same symptoms on an ZF6HP, a new converter was all it needed but i highly recommend you to check and/or replace the bushes. They are not expensive but you do need to tear down the whole transmission. Title: Re: DIY TCU controller Post by: BlackT on April 01, 2022, 10:26:00 AM Your description is exactly what happens when TC need rebuild. The vibration is just already extreme phase of damage... Good you tell me that before I raise power in engine. Yes it will work until you hit over 630nm torque in engine. Then torque will jump from 630nm to 316nm in 1 millisecond. Do you think the trans will be happy? :) But still this hack with MDNORM can be useful when I put nitrous. With K04 I am not going to make more than 500Nm after 5000 rpm, so at this point I can make custom function when I hit nitrous to raise MDNORM Only thinking out loud First I need to rebuild trans, thank you all, now is not problem when I know what to do. Also now when I figure out how to match ecu and trans maybe I wil go to 6hp26(If can fit in C5) :) I had the exact same symptoms on an ZF6HP, a new converter was all it needed but i highly recommend you to check and/or replace the bushes. They are not expensive but you do need to tear down the whole transmission. thank you will do thatTitle: Re: DIY TCU controller Post by: prj on April 01, 2022, 11:05:41 AM Good you tell me that before I raise power in engine. Please stop thinking and just set MDNORM <630nm.But still this hack with MDNORM can be useful when I put nitrous. With K04 I am not going to make more than 500Nm after 5000 rpm, so at this point I can make custom function when I hit nitrous to raise MDNORM Only thinking out loud What you wrote is complete BS because you do not understand what the problem is. There is no need to screw with MDNORM, the gearbox will misadapt and you will have tons of issues. If you want firmer shifting behaviour adjust the TCU software. Quote First I need to rebuild trans, thank you all, now is not problem when I know what to do. Also now when I figure out how to match ecu and trans maybe I wil go to 6hp26(If can fit in C5) :) Exactly. And you don't need 6HP26. 6HP19 can hold up to 700 Nm very easily, even more (only input shaft can be a problem), and you will probably not make much more torque. 6HP26 goes to 1200Nm.thank you will do that Title: Re: DIY TCU controller Post by: BlackT on April 01, 2022, 01:03:35 PM Please stop thinking and just set MDNORM <630nm. Not during shift, durring acceleration when I hit nitrous to avoid TC slip, make custom code to raise MDNORM only while N20 switch is on. But that is far away in this phase. No need to bother now with thatWhat you wrote is complete BS because you do not understand what the problem is. There is no need to screw with MDNORM, the gearbox will misadapt and you will have tons of issues. If you want firmer shifting behaviour adjust the TCU software. Exactly. And you don't need 6HP26. 6HP19 can hold up to 700 Nm very easily, even more (only input shaft can be a problem), and you will probably not make much more torque. 6HP26 goes to 1200Nm. So internals od 6hp19 can hold 700 Nm?? That is awesome.when we talk about software, any cheper tool(under 500€) that can remap this trans? I didnt find anyone in my country than can do it. I only want to make tiptronic like manual mode Title: Re: DIY TCU controller Post by: prj on April 01, 2022, 04:32:40 PM Not during shift, durring acceleration when I hit nitrous to avoid TC slip, make custom code to raise MDNORM only while N20 switch is on. But that is far away in this phase. No need to bother now with that Really shit idea. And again TC control is not torque based if I remember correctly. It is just a closed loop controller and I don't recall any kind of pre-control being used on it. Why on earth would you change MDNORM, I don't think you understand what it does.If you need more torque calculated, calculate more torque, but none of that will help TC slip. Quote when we talk about software, any cheper tool(under 500€) that can remap this trans? I didnt find anyone in my country than can do it. I only want to make tiptronic like manual mode Cheap cheap cheap, free free free.Pay to play. ZF6HP is done only by a handful of tools, Flex and Frieling spring to mind. Title: Re: DIY TCU controller Post by: cherry on April 01, 2022, 05:12:28 PM Byteshooter can do by obd also, but you needed to pay extra for it. Pcmflash has new module for bench, same as for EDC16 bench.
Title: Re: DIY TCU controller Post by: prj on April 01, 2022, 05:37:23 PM Bench is really messy though on these.
You need to physically remove the mechatronic unit/valvebody out of the oil and connect directly to the board. At least with Flex. Not a viable solution for tuning at all. Only for cloning it's ok, as you need to remove the oil ... Title: Re: DIY TCU controller Post by: cherry on April 01, 2022, 10:38:04 PM It seems at least one connection is "inside" -> https://pcmflash.ru/downloads/pcmflash_77.pdf
There are also sgo -> bin -> sgo service available, if you really need only one attempt, then you can use every tool to write sgo. To export data from sgo you need to xor with FF. Blocks are BCB, checksum can be done with winols. Did this with Aisin tcu, but these use plain data inside sgm, i have no clue about BCB but i think someone her can assist. Not sure about the signing from these sgo too, for Aisin you just need to copy the checksum inside sgo. Title: Re: DIY TCU controller Post by: prj on April 02, 2022, 06:21:05 AM Flex can flash them OBD... that's what I have always used.
Also Frieling can do it, and you can buy only the one protocol. There is the "MINI DSG Reader" china clone of Frieling, and I think the 6HP protocols are open on it. But I have no clue if the clone works, and if you brick the controller, then LOL. Title: Re: DIY TCU controller Post by: BlackT on April 02, 2022, 06:58:53 AM There are many tuners that have Flex but they don't do 6HP19? Is there any special tool for Flex so it can work with 6HP, or they don't want to try?
Frieling iflash? It seems at least one connection is "inside" -> https://pcmflash.ru/downloads/pcmflash_77.pdf If this option can work this would be awesome, I have tool to write SGO in this gearboxThere are also sgo -> bin -> sgo service available, if you really need only one attempt, then you can use every tool to write sgo. To export data from sgo you need to xor with FF. Blocks are BCB, checksum can be done with winols. Did this with Aisin tcu, but these use plain data inside sgm, i have no clue about BCB but i think someone her can assist. Not sure about the signing from these sgo too, for Aisin you just need to copy the checksum inside sgo. Title: Re: DIY TCU controller Post by: BlackT on April 05, 2022, 11:17:42 AM What is happening with this gearbox when I press brake and throttle at start?
Is there some function in gearbox for fast start, and less damage to geaebox? Or yust TC slip during that phase? Yust to know I didn't try to do that. With 5HP yes but with this no Title: Re: DIY TCU controller Post by: EAF1-KR on April 21, 2022, 12:51:32 AM Eh??? Hello, use me7 5 is that ok?Use ME7.1.1 and no problem. Title: Re: DIY TCU controller Post by: K2d33 on May 04, 2022, 12:55:25 PM I didn't think, bad idea 6hp is not a problem. There are gearboxes up to 2005 (in a6 c6 and d3, without immo TCU 19.02/19.04) and there are also in audi a4 also 19.11 (supported by flex and other tools) which have disabled immo.In other thread there is a swap 2.7TT in C6 and C6 gearbox with 3.0 petrol C6 software for gearbox. My plan is to use gearbox from B7 3.0 TDI on audi C5, I was planning to put gearbox from C6 but immo from gearbox make it really hard Wysłane z iPhone za pomocą Tapatalk |