NefMoto

can someone tell me if this looks like traction control or something? Only happens in 1st gear and occasionally 2nd. It happens even when boost is 3psi lower than requested (1st gear doesnt have time to spool my turbo). Doesnt ever happen in 3rd gear even though boost in 3rd goes over requested. My hypothesis is that its from ESP from spinning all the wheels.

I took out and lost my esp button a couple years ago lmao, so i cant just hit the button to turn it off. If someone confirms this looks like traction control i guess im gonna have to find that button or maybe turn it off in my file somehow?

Another question i have and cant figure out is why my requested boost showing in logs is 9.5psi (x2 because 5120 hack so 19psi irl) when i have kfldhbn set to 25psi and all other maps requesting 250 load which is reflected accurately in logs. I do meet the requested 250 load and reach kfldhbns 25psi target without any torque intervention or too low of wgdc so i guess its not a problem, im just wondering where the requested boost is coming from. I never edited my .ecu file for the 5120 hack so i just x2 boost in my head.

The easiest way is to fool the ecu into thinking your brakes (or parking brake?) is engaged

https://s4wiki.com/wiki/Electronic_Stability_Program

Make sure you only change the signal to your esp controller, and leave the signal to your cluster intact.

I've not tried this so im not 100% sure of the details

Also
https://s4wiki.com/wiki/Tuning#Disable_ASR

here we go
http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=7487.msg88192#msg88192

Thanks so much for the guidance, ill try it tomorrow

ff'd nasnotkl and still had the throttle cut in 1st. im going to pull the fuse just to make sure it cant possibly be esp.

Please post a complete log...

that sample rate is a bit low, but it is most likely overboost TC

Do you mean underboost tc? When i overboost in higher gears i get no throttle cut but probably not pealing out. My pc is actually a chromebook lol thats why i chose a lower sample rate. I think it sped up how fast it starts taking the log and displaying data

Got a new log with fuse 42 pulled with no difference. In 2nd gear its the fastest the car has been yet since closing my spark plug gaps a bit resolving a little misfire i had.

Yes. Severe overboost. This is probably some of the worst i've ever seen; no wonder you are seeing TC

Not sure what it is you are trying to do, but your requested boost is a disaster.

You're going to throw codes and have all sorts of issues.

Im really confused because in 1st gear i dont even meet requested boost and get hard throttle cut at 6100rpm every single time. In 2nd gear i go over requested boost and dont get throttle cut. I guess ill set kfldhbn to ff and rely on ldrxn to just limit load to 250 and see if that makes a difference. My turbo literally isnt capable of making requested boost in 1st gear so if underboost is my problem i gotta find a solution to keep it from cutting throttle, rather than just requesting less boost.

None of what you said matches up with the log you posted.

make sure youre just looking at 1st gear. not reaching desired boost and the throttle dive bombs at 6100 rpm everytime.

As for the load request issues and overboosting in higher gears; I ffd kfldhbn and it seems to have fixed my too low boost request. I had ldrxn and kfmirl/iop set to 250 just for testing and making sure my chinese turbo doesnt explode. Im going to have ldrxn set to 270 now and irl/iop set to like 320. I found out the idiot way (correct me if im wrong) that rl_w wont go over the highest numbers in irl/iop, so if im overboosting ill still be using 250 load timing, which is no bueno. That should sort my overboost issues as long i have kfldimx adjusted properly.

Still struggling with the throttle cut in 1st gear.
changed kfmirl/iop to another configuration, torque monitoring has always been turned off, i think i disabled traction control; even pulled fuse 42, i really have no clue what else to try. ive been looking through everything i can think of and dont know where else to look. No throttle cut in 2nd even at 28psi at mbt in the rain certainly getting at least some wheel slip (ya it was dark and pouring and my life flashed before my eyes ;D) so i can conclude its definitely not tc. Going to log mibas and 3 other ram variables i dont remember the names of at some point today. Also finally edited my .ecu file for 5120 finally

been working on this issue and still no luck. installed an esp button, fixed my steering angle sensor, corrected the vardef coding for my car, redid kfmirl iop to where i dont think it could possibly have an error, set kfmizuof and zufil to ff, set them to stock in most recent logs, made no difference. 2nd gear looks and feels beautiful. In 1st gear miszolv dips down below mibas at 6000 rpm every single time, (yes i hit the esp button) even though im still not even close to requested load/boost.
is it improper of me to use kfldhbn to limit boost and set ldrxn way high and out of the way? would that cause me a problem like this? is underboosting really going to cause a torque intervention? Ill actually try a different dhbn ldrxn configuration and take a log after i hit post.

Heres my file and log and the definition i use if anybody would be kind enough to tell me what im doing wrong. Ive been working on this issue for like 5 months lmao, i even redid the entire file from stock with no 5120 and still had the exact issue.

i tried ldrxn tapered from 226 to 250 and dhbn set to all 3s; still cut throttle at 6000rpm in 1st. going to try ldrxn 350 and dhbn set to 24psi now and see what happens.

you have a bizarre boost request dip. Why?

Just tried that and realized for 215 load it requests 28psi. With my gt30 and my already calibrated wdkugdn (i logged with a maf to calibrate) it reads my actual load correctly because of wdkugdn. I guess ive forgotten that actual load is mainly based off of my fake maf readings (msdk_w) and not based off the pressure sensor. My requested load to meet my pressure request of 24 psi is off because my kfurl was still calibrated for the ko3 and my gt3076 flows double the air at 23 psi. So i just increased kfurl 10% for now, and ill increase it more after i log if i think its needed.

you're not addressing your lde induced throttle cut.

What is lde throttle cut?

I logged after raising kfurl and i got the effect i wanted for making my load request match the boost request more accurately but i still got throttle cut in 1st at 6k. 2nd and 3rd were flawless. Im assuming underboosting is the cause but theres nothing i can do to make the turbo spool faster. How do people with big turbos usually go about this?

Did you compare requested boost with actual boost during throttle cut?

If you do not know what lde is, now is the time to stop whatever tuning you are doing and fall back to doing a simple stage 1 tune with a completely stock setup.

Lde is boost control but i need taught how that relates to my throttle cut and how i can fix it
Ive tuned my 018ch ecu and never had any problems like this. Id request 350 load and get 200 and the ecu didnt care lol im thinking about switching back if i cant figure this out

The dip in requested boost happens as my camshaft retards at 4k rpm, i think thats fine

No. you have another dip right at throttle cut, you can also see it in plsol

i see what youre talking about. i thought that was just the torque intervention but i see it happens more gradually in 2nd gear as well.
 Just now i reverted all of the boost pid maps back to stock aside from the 5120 changes just to see what happens. ill log that tomorrow. could you look at my kfmiop and kfmirl and tell me if those are going to cause me problems? i made sure theyre the exact inverse of each other but idk

took a log with all boost pid set to stock and i lowered my kfmiop axis to 270 instead of 334 and changed the map accordingly. Obviously got lots of overboost in 2nd gear, it hit 31psi (requested 22 and the throttle only slightly started to close down to like 97% from 6500rpm till i shifted.
1st gear was the same as always. Closed at 6100rpm at 16psi requesting 22. is there some map that defines how much underboost results in torque intervention?

tons of unnecessary / weird / garbage changes
some axes filled with random values (kfurl, vlmx..something)
weird dimx
insane zwmn..

as for the logs - misol_w drops at dip and when throttle cut happens
log miasrs, miasrl, minmx, mimax, mibgrl and so on to find the reason
youve got massive overshoot at the second..

Started driving car again and still throttle cut. Started a new file from scratch. Im going to put the ecu in my compound turbo 1.8t b5 and see if i get the same problem. Keep getting the feeling that its my car somehow even though i dont have any codes for anything like a wheel speed sensor or  abs or something

I still haven't figured it out over a year later. Ive restarted the file from scratch like 100 times trying different ways of doing things making sure i do everything by the book and changing the bare minimum to match my hardware. I've been thinking it could have something to with the fact that i never installed knock sensors (e85), although i cant see how that could be related to 1st gear. i did turn off diagnostics for knock sensors but im going to install them to rule out whether or not thats my issue anyways.
I attached a log with all the mi parameters i have available (actually I forgot mibas so ill take another log with mibas).

What exactly are you trying to show with this log?
the highest accell pedal is 38degree

Maybe i uploaded the wrong log on accident. Here's the most recent one but i was trying out a new irl iop copied and upscaled from the 225 tt file that only goes up to 207 load in iop and I' not sure how the log looks but I'm sure I didn't hit 207 load in 1st gear and i felt the throttle cut at 6k. I did install the knock sensors before taking this log so i think its safe to say that's not the issue. I did hit the esp button before taking the log. I'm logging all the mi variables available. if we cant figure this out Ill pay someone good to make me a tune that actually works.

havent checked your file yet but maybe ldrxn is defined incorrect and dropping at the end?
or is related to improper 5120hack, maybe try without 5120.
have you tried with wastegate pressure without n75?
have you tried with maf?

my ldrxn address is 29734 and 1000rpm is 90.75 load and 6700rpm is 125.51 load stock which seems right.
Every time ive restarted from stock i tried it with no 5120 hack at first and got the same result. i have a 5120 patch so its easy to just apply it after finding out its not the problem.
In 1st gear i typically dont even reach wastegate pressure because the throttle closes as soon as its starting to spool over 10psi. Also every log obviously starts after a brand new flash so in 1st gear on the very first pull so i wouldnt have an overboost error since its the first time its seen boost.
Ive tried it with a maf on the pressure side at one point too and got the same result iirc but i took it off because it was just jammed between a couple pipes in my charge pipe tract and it just gets drenched in oil. My cruise control even works with no maf so i dont think theres some underlying canbus error causing it.

Ill pay somebody $300 to make me a tune that actually works

You are gonna have to 5x that at least if you want someone qualified to do something on your custom shit.

I am not offering, just giving you the reality of the market.

To follow up on prj's comment: this is why you don't start a project w/o a clear plan for tuning BEFORE you pick a single part.

The car runs great in every way aside from this problem. Im not a complete noob as ive been adjusting files for my cars for a few years, and ive tried everything thats been suggested including starting from scratch changing one thing at a time. Id rather pay for someone to figure out the issue and fix it for me so i can learn something rather than a whole tune. Im going to read the fr more and figure out what all these mi variables mean

Someone helped me out and lent me a file that he sells just for the sake of ruling out the tune being the problem. Finally ive confirmed that the tune is not the problem. I dont have any dtc's for any sensors or wiring issues that i know of. I even snipped the canbus wires to figure out if canbus was intervening (it wasnt). I guess the next thing to try is swapping the whole harness. Anybody else ever have a wild issue like this?

Key on, engine off check your boost pressure reading. Mine was reading about 75 mbar higher than it should have (1 bar) and I was getting weird throttle cuts. I changed dslofs from 329mbar/volt to 299 and haven’t had throttle cut since.

This is actually what martin just told me to try. My dslofs is 33 and dslgrad 437 for 5120. I guess ill just set dslgrad to 330 and see what happens. If its good ill scale it back up in increments to get it close as possible before having an issue.

Yeah, let's underscale the sensor instead of fixing the tune, great idea.
31.25 and 437.50 is the correct data for the VAG 03K906051 sensor.

One and a half year to fix some trivial shit...
And flashing random files means absolutely nothing.

Changing random shit in the tune blind instead of logging the correct thing and understanding how it works.
This thread is a perfect example of what not to do and how not to tune. I hope it at least serves as a warning to others.

Actually prj I did not underscale the sensor in my car. I did not and still do not have the correct sensor data for the specific VAG sensor I am using, so I used what I could find for other 3 bar sensors which resulted in intermittent limp. Soooo I changed dslofs until it resulted in 1 bar key on engine off. No underscale there.

Your scaling is for a 4 bar sensor, not for a 3 bar sensor.

What part number sensor are you using?

I will have to get a look up behind the bumper as I don’t remember at this point. I know it was a sensor from a CJAA I put a cold weather intercooler kit on.

Well go and look it up then, because CJAA has a 3 bar sensor IIRC.
And your scaling is for a 4 bar.

CJAA has 03G906051F, that's 3 bar.
For that the correct scaling is 329.4219 and -31.7578.

I used a big turbo tune that works in lots ot other cars so ive finally confirmed the tune is not the problem unless the problem is within any of the 5 parameters i did change. Only maps i changed were for my hardware; krkte, tvub, frlfsdp, dslofs, and dslgrad. Ive taken like 300 logs trying to figure out what this problem could be from. The throttle actually cuts before any load request or boost request dips. With any of the mi variables i can log none of them show any change until the load request starts to dip which is after the throttle cut.

Btw if you cant even explain any specifics about what im doing wrong and only read what you want to read from my posts, why even post anything? You think i like wasting my time? Im actually trying my best, and im also only here to learn, not have some dickhead try to make me feel dumb for trying and asking for help when i need it.

You didn't confirm anything. Flashing random files does not confirm jack shit.
Make a custom .ecu file with all the parameters in the a2l.
It's not my job to babysit your ass.

Stop taking things for granted and start taking things apart.
You're making random changes without understanding how the ECU works.

What you have an issue with is something super basic, but you're literally modifying a million things at once and trying to run before you can walk.
5120, alpha/n, pressure sensor with scaling you don't have a clue about etc.

So focus on the basics. Do you have a 4 bar or a 3 bar pressure sensor. Because if it's 3 bar from CJAA then your scaling is completely fucked.

Anybody can tell me to go understand the ecu better why not be more specific for my situation? Ive spent many hours reading the fr trying to get to the bottom of this. Im logging nearly all the diagnostic parameters including all the ones people in this thread mentioned and none of them indicate anything until after the throttle closes. If its not one of the 5 parameters that i changed in that file then its a hardware issue.

I have a genuine bosch 4bar sensor for a tdi i think and as far as i know i have the right numbers for it. 874 grad and 68 ofs with no 5120 iirc

You just said it was from a CJAA.
CJAA comes with a 3 bar sensor.

Make up your mind.


The ECU controls the throttle. Go through the FR, and look where the throttle request comes from. Then log the relevant variables. Instead of ME7Info profile, make your own with variables from an A2L.
Or for starters remove the whole 5120. If the 5120 is incorrect, then you're going to have all kinds of issues.

Alternatively pay someone who has a clue what they are doing to tune the car for you. Nobody with half a clue is going to go through your shit for free and try to fix it. They all have their hands full.

In the end you either learn help yourself with some gentle steering in the right directions (all the tools are there to do that) or you pay.
You are trying to open your mouth wide like a baby and hope a spoon comes your way, but it's just not going to happen. No matter how many tantrums you throw.
The reason being is you have a lot of hardware mods and tons of changes in your file, and the only way to sort it for anyone capable is to start from scratch.

Those posts about the pressure sensor scaling werent me.
I said probably 10 times that ive started with a stock file with the only changes being for injectors pressure sensor, ldrxn, and irl/iop numerous times. today in an effort to rule out a pressure sensor scaling issue i swapped in the stock pressure sensor and *drumroll* i got throttle cut at 6000rpm.
Maybe ill flash a stock file with only krkte, tvub, ldrxn and kfldhbn changed and give it a go. thatll be the closest thing to stock ill be able to flash without triggering overboost faults. my wastegate wont really let me make under 20psi so i have no choice but to raise some limits.

what sort of hardware issue can cause this? this is the 2nd motor with all different sensors but i suppose something could be happening in the harness but not enough to throw a code?

Did you adjust the file for that? Told the ECU what is gate boost and what isn't? I guess not.

Also, log B_LDR, E_LDRA, E_LKVDK and E_LDO.Your boost is all over the place, so the error is most likely a boost deviation fault.

I have adjusted the boost pid and the axis for wastegate cracking pressure but it never made any difference in when or if the throttle cuts. Ive also adjusted to the timers for negative and positive boost deviation as well as ff"ing kldlul and got no change. Ill figure out how to find those parameters to log just to be sure. Im convinced the issue is from my ecu harness and i think its easier to swap harnesses than read and understand 1800 pages of translated german to figure out where the error is coming from. You also gotta understand that im only trying to tune MY cars and then leave them alone, i dont really have any need to become a full on me7 professional if i dont have to. id even buy a tune but im afraid the issue will still be there.
I guess i can get out the compound turbo car with essentially the same setup except stock-like boost onset and see if it happens in that car.

One more time, the ECU controls the throttle...
I'm more inclined to believe that your VE model is completely fucked, as you're running alpha/n and probably have not adjusted anything right - meaning injectors are scaled wrong, load is scaled wrong, manifold pressure is scaled wrong.

Start by logging what I said.

i think i fingered it out or at least i got good enough of results that i can settle if i have to.

It was the rev limit torque pid. Based on a predicted .3 seconds before hitting nmax the desired torque declines as a pre-rev limit. Im assuming the function exists so the driver will choose to shift gears because of the dysphoric lack of power the closer they get to redline, and/or because a gradual torque reduction limiter is smoother than a fuel cut, either way; I hate it.

The only map i changed so far was KLTNMXPR: "Time (seconds) for speed prediction of the NMAX control". I set all values to 0. Now my throttle cut doesn't happen until 6900rpm, but my requested torque dipped at 6700, which was caused by DNSIRES I assume?

DNSIRES is the rpm region before NMAX that the torque request dips as the pre-rpm limit. It was 300rpm stock. NMXPRLG is the proportional gain of the rev limit pid. KINMXRLG is the integral component.

As of right now I've lowered DNMAXH to 20rpm, lowered DNSIRES to 20rpm, set NMAX to 7200 for my stock head, lower the P and I components for the nmax pid, and I'll keep KLTNMXPR at 0. With these settings I think I'll have a pretty normal rev limiter. Once I get another log I'll report my results.

As I said half-year ago, log mi* variables

minmx_w shows that. 5 min deal

You'd be right if i didnt need to learn how to find new ram variables. I didnt know what minmx was and didnt have it available to log. Maybe you couldve mentioned my problem could be the rev limit and why that specific variable is so important? But honestly if you did that i still probably wouldnt have taken the time to dissect my ecu and find the address. I probably wouldve just did what i did sunday and looked through the nmaxmd section in the 518al damos and figured it out and fixed it in 5 minutes, which is what i did.
Sorry for not blindly following directions without understanding

Your first step should have been to crossflash to 8E0909518AL and you would have had an A2L with every single ram variable that is there.
Instead of wasting time with AK file.

I said that the problem comes when misol (soll-moment) drops, so the requested torque. That's the key.
It's a minimum of driver-requested, asr, getriebe and other sources that could possible request torque reduction
Log them, check FR for a source of bad guy, that's all. Be logical in your investigation, simply as that.