NefMoto

Many are probably familiar with the J2534 based VehiCAL Logger for newer ECU's as a paid tool.
Today I release a full free protocol for ME7.

You can download the tool here:
https://download.vehical.net/logger/LoggerInstall.exe (https://download.vehical.net/logger/LoggerInstall.exe)

The whole installation and usage part is described in the documentation:
https://docs.vehical.net/logger_getting_started (https://docs.vehical.net/logger_getting_started)

After you register and get an API key, just select the "VAG ME7 C167 K-Line (Free) - Advanced" protocol.
Please do not fill garbage data during registration. I will never ever send you any unsolicited e-mail or share your details with third parties unless ordered by a court (the GDPR in EU is extremely strict about this).
But this is a commercial tool interacting with my servers, and I am required to have knowledge about the users. Any garbage accounts will be deleted without warning.

Here are a few benefits of my solution:
* Better ease of use, no need to generate or edit any files. All the heavy lifting is done by the server.
* Full UI for measurement adding/removing/displaying and you can add or remove measurements in real time while connected to the ECU.
* Configurable format of log headers.
* Optional translation of German variable names to English.
* Automatic init type and baud rate detection, or you can select it in the connection dialog
* Runs using J2534 hardware. No messing around with COM ports.
* Automatic 5120 file detection and variable re-scaling
* File patching built-in, that allows connecting with double slowinit even when engine is running.
* Variable side loading support through the "Add custom..." button in the measurement selection screen, instructions here:
https://docs.vehical.net/logger_custom (https://docs.vehical.net/logger_custom)
* GitHub with explanation of the logging method, and the ECU code: https://github.com/prj/me7log (https://github.com/prj/me7log)

There are also a few downsides:
* Requires a J2534 interface, which is much more expensive than KKL cable. However, it is a very good investment, and likely many already have one.
* Requires registration and signup in the billing system
* Requires an internet connection during the initial connection, but after that you can start and stop logging as many times as you like and no internet is needed.

Finally, keep in mind that this stuff is completely free, and currently in beta.
I am happy if you find some bugs or details and post about them, but please do not expect any timely support for this protocol.

tested, thx  ;D

Nice, thanks, seems pretty cool specially the 5120 detection and the fact you dont have to generate ecu files and such which might be good for the noobs.

Oh and the logging patch is nice too since most people dont even know how to find the required code via disassembly.


Cheers.

I tried to make it as simple as possible, because with ME7Logger it was every time generate files, then try to find init method and baud rate that will work.
Then if your dash only supports double slow init you had to every time turn off the engine to start logging, and patching is non-trivial.

In the end it saves much time.
Did not feel like charging for it, since ME7Logger is free anyway, so let it be a gift :)

Awesome.
Will you only be supporting vag me7 or other ecu's in the Future?
Is this using the same method that you described in another post?
Edit: I had to read better,this last question is already answered in the first post

Enviado do meu M2102J20SG através do Tapatalk

It depends really. Maybe the Fiat ME7.9 is interesting to do.
The problem is getting all the measurement data.

Right now I parsed the table that is the same on all VAG ME7 to get the data.
No such thing on other ECU's usually. So that means to get the data exact a2l is needed.
I actually have an a2l generator but it does not support C167 instruction set, adding it is a lot of work, and not sure it is financially worth it.

Most likely the next I will work on are other K-Line protocols for which I already have the data. Like BMW and Merc.

Its also a good way to get your logger out there.  Its like handing free food out at Costco, gets people in the store.

I understand. When I started reverse engineering my me7.3.1 I was a complete noob, so I used the a2l and hex of an Alfa 2.0 as a guide. Most of the functions are the same, except anything related to the turbo side of things, and cats ( Alfa uses bank 1 and 2).
The rest of the functions are very similar to s4 7.1.1 (ggsdas), etc.
There are patterns,but to implement this in a program is not easy I imagine.
There are some interesting cars using this ecu, Alfa GTA  and 20v turbo lancia (and fiat soon)

I will keep using readmemorybyadress for the time being, when I have time I will try to implement your method in this ecu

Enviado do meu M2102J20SG através do Tapatalk

That's the idea of course.
Maybe someone will like it on ME7 and then pay for it on a newer ECU.

And even if not, then it's at least one way to give back to the community, that's also why I posted the whole method on GitHub instead of keeping it private.

Awesome and thanks for the contribution, as always. I will be after an J2534 interface to use your logger.

Added support for ECU's that have security access. E.g. 40mhz 1.8T on 8E.

Next that could be done is ST10, but for that I need to implement C166 instruction support into my a2l generator and this won't be free, but rather a normal paid protocol, since there is no ME7Info for these.

Outstanding work.. I did a bit of initial digging in to a J2534 -> FTDI (or bare bitbang rs232) shim, and it's non trivial, even if doable.

Maybe something to do if i retire or lose my day job.

Thanks for this, regardless, prj.

Yeah you can make a J2534 DLL for a K-Line interface.
The only downside is that the best reliable timing you can get on Windows without spinwait is 0.5ms via some API's.
But it's not too bad. I have ISO-TP implemented in software for my CAN multiplexer tool (log multiple ECU's at once), and it's barely slower than a hardware implementation.
TP2.0 runs in software as well using the same timer.

You only have to do a few things like taking care of P2/P3/P4 timings and then implement the fast and slowinit.

But how much sense does it make really? All the newer CAN cars require a J2534 device anyway.
These days you can get cloned Tactrix Openport and Mongoose for 20 euro on aliexpress with free shipping, and they work just fine. Barely more expensive than a KKL cable...

It was worth a try, but unfortunately it fails to connect to BMW ME7.2

[21:53:45] Connecting using VAG ME7 C167 K-Line (Free) - Advanced...
[21:53:52] Reading ECU data...
[21:53:52] HW: 0261207106
[21:53:52] Bosch SW: 1037368796
[21:53:52] VAG SW: 011195005A012401
[21:53:52] Checking ECU...
[21:53:54] ERROR: Unsupported ECU: Address verification failed.

Not that I was expecting it to work, but I had hope :D

IDK why you had hope.
I'm surprised it even went that far.

BMW will be loggable with basic protocol soon. This only works on VAG ME7 C167 K-Line, nothing else.

Hi will this log on the me7 1.1 ecu

Kind regards

Typo

Why don't you try?

I will do. When some one says me7 I assume it's just one model in particular not different versions of me7 .

Thanks for the logger though

When one says ME7 in general, it means the entire family, including subtypes like ME7.5 ME7.1 ME7.1.1 etc, SMDH

Can you do logger in ECU ST10?

I know I've asked him to :)

Since releasing the free functionality of the tool there have been 88 different A2L id's that have been logged.

Today I've added ST10 support, as well as full C167 support for KWP2000 based ECU's. For example VW R32 Mk5, Audi TT 8J, but also Audi A4 8E, and even the A6 4F.
Logging is possible on K-Line and CAN.

This functionality however is in the paid portion of the tool - the VAG KWP - Advanced protocol.
The reason is that I have to generate the definitions manually on demand if they have not been logged before, because there is no ME7Info like tool.
However, unlike the ME7Info definitions these definitions have the complete A2L content.

The method used is the original APR method with the 2C exploit, because it is universal and not dependent on the bootrom.
38400 baud is supported including security access bypass if needed.

The speed of logging on CAN controllers is about the same as K-Line at 10400 baud, which is about half the speed of 38400 baud.
For this reason when connecting to a CAN controller, once the ECU is identified as ME7, it will check if K-Line communication is possible and switch to K-Line for the better speed. If not (eg. A6 4F V8), then the logging is done over CAN.

It is now possible to RAM log nearly all the VAG gasoline cars with the logger since ME7:
ME7, MED9, MED17, MG1, SIMOS8.4, SIMOS8.5, SIMOS16, SIMOS18, SIMOS19.

So I gave this a go tonight.


Chipsoft Pro cable used. (Already tested with PCMFlash etc.)
After the setup and registration the first connection I left all on Auto baud and auto init. Engine off Ign on

It started going through the connections one by one , none managed to do anything. So after I tried 56000 baud and double slow init 0x01 and it said it started KWP1281 session but then immidietly it times out.
So I gave it a go again on auto baud and init and when it got to double slow 0x01 it did the same thing again.

Now, I would like to say that ME7logger only works with slow-0x00 too not 0x01. Btw I already patched my file manually to connect while engine is running for ME7logger, but I am not sure it made a difference here.

Could you take a look into this, because at the moment it's not working unfortunately and ME7logger remains. Thanks!

It's your cable, K-Line does not work properly. Get a different one.

KW1281 via J2534 requires the cable to properly follow all the K-Line settings, and if KW1281 session times out then the cable does not.
UCM100 also had problems, but we fixed that with EVC.

Tactrix works out of the box.

Since the dawn of time this car only ever worked with slow 0x00 even on blue k line cable ch340/ ftdi(I've got both). Be aware this was originally a non turbo 1.8 car with the most basic ass cluster and nothing was changed except for the ECU ofcourse, but the cluster is still a POS aswell as the k line wiring or however its setup.

I'll try with engine running or something see if anything changes.

Double-slow IS SLOW-0x00.
The problem is your cable, it is not following standards according to P1/P2/P3 configuration and because of that it is impossible to complete a KW1281 session.

You will never ever be able to connect with this cable through the dash, because that requires completing the KW1281 session first.
Get another cable or contact the cable support and ask if they can make a firmware update.

There is nothing that can be done with this on logger side.

Hello, I too was ready to buy the Chipsoft Pro China too (I have A4 B5 2000). would it be possible to provide a china link for a compatible cable? on aliexpress for example there is openport2 (benz) kwp2000 dual kline? the codiag? thanks

The tactrix clones should work.

J2534 has no support for KW1281. It is somewhat of a hack to communicate on it.
It is done by setting certain timeouts (e.g. P2) to zero, so that the cable instantly returns every byte that it receives to the PC.

This works fine if the cable is standards compliant, however if it is not, then it ignores the settings and can not work.
That's the case with the Chipsoft. While it reports setting the timeout as successful it does not actually abide by it and continues working as if it was never set.

To even get a successful wakeup the cable has to not ignore the checksum calculation configuration. This was the case with the UCM100 until we fixed it with Axel.

I think most likely the Scanmatik 2 will work too, whether original or clone, as they try to be as standards compliant as possible...

thank you for the precise answer mr prj

I tried a clone cable to use with ECU Flash about 6 years ago after I broke my legit cable bt snapping off the usb header by mistake.  I could not get it to work with any early k line 16 bit ecus (subaru), I ended up using the usb header from the clone to fix my original

In my case I am not 100% convinced its the cable, because like I said it only ever worked with slow init on 0x00 adress not 0x01 even if that is supposed to be the ECU... but even ME7logger/visualme7logger require manual change from 0x01 to 0x00 init otherwise it will simply not work. Even on K-line cable cutting j2534 from the picture.

I have also flashed a different software on my ecu (018CM) which has support for KWP2000 and such.. irrelevant but I tried Vehical again with the cable again now and instead of the timeout error it simply says no reply to 5 baud init from ECU, like all other software I've ever tried in this car.

I know you are probably right since I am not too big on communication protocols but just to confirm I will order a tactrix clone(how do they handle the internet connection for the initialize phase, they like to "die" with active internet connection).
Also I will try with kw1281 / kwp2000 software/write/modify some code see if I can replicate what is exactly happening why it wont connect even with slow init on 0x01 with kline cable either so..

Would be nice to see how this performs finally.

There is no 0x00, it does not exist. It is always 0x01, setzi just called it SLOW-0x00, because it is a special case.
The way it is done is:
1. Init on 0x01. Get a KW1281 session.
2. Go through the initial KW1281 session and end it.
3. Wait a certain amount of time.
4. Init on 0x01 again, now you get a KWP2000 session.

If you have a cluster, that does not support fast init or does not shut up after fast init, then nothing else you do will ever work, because every single time you init on 0x01 the cluster expects you to run a full KW1281 session.
If you don't complete a KW1281 session properly then even though the ECU will give you a KWP2000 session on 2nd attempt the cluster will just close the connection.

Your cable is hardware wise incapable of performing any KW1281 comms so it will never work, end of story.

It is not about the ECU, it is about the cluster.

Because the cluster won't let you communicate unless you run a KW1281 session first.

Of course I am right, I wrote the damn thing and I tested it with various ECU and cluster combinations.

I have no idea about clones, I use the original ones only.

See above - it is because of cluster. Cluster requires KW1281 session to pass first.
If you run a direct K-Line to the ECU you can just run fast init all day.

Also this is not any faster or better than ME7Logger, it is just more convenient to configure and connect without having to mess around with config files...
And then you get the same interface for all the newer cars.

Why would OP's cable not be capable of doing kw1281 protocol?.....

https://www.blafusel.de/obd/obd2_kw1281.html#5

Logger works with J2534 only. J2534 does not support KW1281.
Only choice is to use KWP2000 as a hack with P1_MAX and P4_MIN on minimum values, so it returns instantly.

His J2534 cable ignores those settings, no KW1281 comms possible.

Is it possible OP have shitty Windows 232 drivers?....I've had that before with various USB-RS232 devices.  Ended up downloading directly from ftdi.

https://ftdichip.com/drivers/vcp-drivers/

Also where's the pop up message that says your cable is incompatible, please purchase one from prj's OBD2 store?  You slacking on the try catch handlers?  ;D. 

I have to agree to disagree at the moment because since I have flashed the newer software only on ecu, things have changed a little bit and I havent changed anything else.
Let me summarize:

Same base ecu, same cluster, same car wiring , same cables used:

Old software (018CA, KW1281 only):
ME7logger/VisualME7logger:

fast init no
slow 0x01 init no
slow 0x00 works engine off, ignition on

Vehical - does not work in any config

Old software 018CA with manual patch to connect while engine running:
ME7logger:

fast init - no
slow init 0x01 - no
slow 0x00 - works both engine running and ignition on

Vehical - does not work

New software 018CM(KWP2000 support, runs via VCDS):
ME7logger:

fast init - no
slow init 0x01 - yes both engine running and ignition only
slow 0x00 no - wrong ecu reply (iirc EF response or something along of sorts)

Vehical - no reply to 5 baud init in any config

Something funky is going... for now I have ordered a tactrix cable but I would be surprised if it works I will be able to confirm then whats going on my setup exactly.
But on Vehical website Chipsoft Pro is listed as confirmed working with Vehical so I was a little bit surprised to be honest.
We will see anyway, but I'd be interested to see what is happening exactly, not sure why I can connect with proper slow 0x01 init with Kline cable now no problems and I couldnt before on the 018CA software :)

Your selective reading ability is amazing.
Chipsoft (original) was only tested on a CAN controller.
If you get no reply from it on K-Line then the K-Line on it is busted, plain and simple.

Your continued idea, that the software is somehow at fault is just stupid.
There are hundreds of users using the free ME7 functionality every day, and none of them are having any problems with it.

Probably because they're not using a china clone of an obscure russian cable with a busted K-Line, and then wondering why a K-Line protocol does not work.
If SLOW-0x01 works in ME7Logger with a KKL and does not work in VehiCAL logger it shows clear as day that your cable does not have a functional K-Line at all.
Doing any further tests is pointless -> get a J2534 interface with a functional K-Line driver or contact Chipsoft support if you actually have an authentic cable. It's their issue to fix, not mine.

I am not going to entertain any more allegations or respond to your insane theories when you are just using hardware that has no functional K-Line to talk to a K-Line ECU.
Maybe next thing is you will try to communicate with the ECU without anything connected to the car or computer at all and then blame the software that it can not talk to the ECU telepathically :D

I am not sure what the ftdi drivers have to do with a J2534 interface.
My software does not support KKL cables. J2534 interfaces do not need FTDI drivers, they come with their own.

He has no issues with any drivers, since his interface works with CAN controllers. Seems that there is no K-Line on it though or it's damaged.

https://ecutools.eu/chip-tuning/chipsoft-j2534-pro/
It says support of additional Kline bus on pins 3,8,9,11,12,13,15.  It might help.

The pins used in VAG are the standard ones. And you are assuming he has the original cable.
Most likely he has a chinese knockoff where the K-Line driver isn't even soldered :D

All I'm saying is, if there is no response on K at all in any of the modes it's an interface issue and the support goes to the interface vendor.
There is really no point to discuss it here apart from "this cable does not work, buy a different one".

Nothing that the application developer can fix.

I am pretty sure I do not have a clone cable it was bought straight from ECUTools :) (the exact link above even) , it should be original Chipsoft Russia/Ukraine cable, so yes I could contact them to see whats up with it if there is anything.

If you dont have handson experience with this cable, its a little bit funky - to use it a s K-line only cable it comes with an 'application' which rewrites the firmware to works a k-line serial port without J2534 functionality(ofcourse in this mode it does not work with Vehical at all)
It looks like when you have it in J2534 mode K-line does not seem to work ? Could test it with some j2534 diag software I guess... or even me7logger in this mode, but even if it does(and it prolly does) then its no good for the original issue.

I'll go ahead and test that right now, alteast that will confirm if Kline works or not :)

But again... on the older software 0x01 never ever worked.. flashing the newer software on 0x00 is now "broken" and 0x01 works as it should on the same exact K-line cable, so the setup is at play aswell here since its not a "normal" setup.

Then do that.

It either does not work at all or it does not support the initialization switches properly. Either way it's a problem with the cable firmware that only the manufacturer can fix.
ME7Logger does not work in J2534 mode, but if you flash it to a dumb K-Line cable then yes, you can verify if the K-Line hardware works at all on the cable.
If that works then they have a problem in J2534 dll or J2534 firmware of the cable.

The correct implementation of the following J2534 parameters is required for communication:
P1_MAX
P3_MIN
P4_MIN
FIVE_BAUD_MOD
ISO9141_NO_CHECKSUM

None of that matters. In Auto mode it goes through all the possibilities and in manual mode you can set it the same as ME7Logger.

SLOW-0x01 and DOUBLE-SLOW 0x01 is the same thing for VehiCAL Logger. Because it's happy with both.
DOUBLE-SLOW just means that the first time you receive a KW1281 session, you run it to completion and reconnect.
SLOW means you should do a slow init and expect a KWP2000 session.
For me this is pointless, you just check at start of session what the keybytes are, if you get KWP2000 directly on 0x01 then you just don't bother with the KW1281 stuff and continue.
So for VehiCAL Logger DOUBLE-SLOW 0x01 is same like SLOW-0x00 and SLOW-0x01 for ME7Logger at the same time.

Newer ECU's respond to fast and slow init on 0x11.

I switched it into Kline adapter mode yesterday and noticed couldnt get an echo even with me7logger, so I thought that cannot be right, checking via device manager it does not install the K-line drivers... ofcourse it does not tell you this.... except in a small part of the manual... because the driver is not signed.

So you gotta disable driver signing to manually install it when its in k-line mode. Did so and tested with Me7logger and voila it works like the oldie cable.
Okay, so we knows it works as a K-line adapter(one of the main functions / selling points of it...lol)


Switching it back to J2534 mode, and giving Vehical a go pretty much end up with same result after messing about for one hour or so, trying all combos and such.

If ignition on and trying to connect on Auto, Auto baud, it will connect with double slow 0x01. But after 2 seconds or so it will throw the error attached below -timeout/no ecu reponse.

Without turning ignition off, and trying on auto connect it will "connect" on fast 0x10 but fails to detect baud rate
So if I then try to connect via fast 0x10 and select baud rate manually it will just say wrong reply, find second attached image below.

This what I've been able to get out from it...

The developer definetly says the cable  is capable of K-line exchange as a J2534 adapter but at the moment it does not seem to be case :) I need to find/test it with another program with j2534 passthrough to see if it works there on a K-line connection or not I guess to confirm which is the last "unknown" of this cable.

I shouldve gotten the Dialink it looks like... maybe that works better oh well.
Let me know what you think and probably should write something indeed to Denis/Chipsoft so we can use the cable in every application lol.

Instead of screenshots copy-paste the text...

From output results:
1. At least one of these parameters is completely broken on the interface:
P1_MAX
P3_MIN
P4_MIN
FIVE_BAUD_MOD

So slow init or double slow init is not going to work unless interface author fixes it.

2. Looking at fast init, ECU needs security access to change baudrate, looks like there's a regression in the tool due to recent refactoring, that it is not detecting that, normally it should do it automatically.
Try the beta:
https://download.vehical.net/logger/LoggerInstallBeta.exe (https://download.vehical.net/logger/LoggerInstallBeta.exe)

Well finally I got it working.


Using the beta, I was able to initialize/connect/log.

So currently this is how it goes: connect using auto/auto baud. It will fail on fast init, go to slow, it will connect then timeout after 2 seconds or so( I can hear the cluster "clicking" too like ME7logger).
Then without turning ignition off connect on auto again(this is the procedure I have to do with me7logger too, connect on 0x00 fail cause of wrong response then connect with slow0x01) and it will connect with fast 0x10 and run on correct baud.
After this it works perfect.

As per tool and my application I was a little bit surprised it didnt parse all the measurements from the (public) A2l available for this ecu - 018CM 0008 only the same ones ME7logger creates basically.
Would've been nice.

As said before it means your cable does not support one of the parameters, so it can not communicate on KW1281.
Otherwise it would just work.

You can create your own custom list from the A2L:
https://docs.vehical.net/logger_custom (https://docs.vehical.net/logger_custom)
Or in your case you can also try the VAG KWP - Advanced paid protocol (but only if fast init actually works directly with your cluster).

The free protocol is literally the same variables as ME7Logger because ME7Info was used to dump all the bins and then that data used.
It's also why it's free.

Full A2L logging is for newer ECU's (that support fastinit directly) in VAG KWP - Basic.
If you want to add some a2l, you do that the same way as with ME7Logger using a custom measurements file.

Does the paid version work for vag med9 ecus? I have a mk6 golf r and before I have any tuning done I would like to log the car for a baseline. Plus side is I still have my tectrix cable from my old Subaru days, so that's a plus!

Yes...
https://docs.vehical.net/logger_protocols (https://docs.vehical.net/logger_protocols)

Awesome, I ended up buying a tune first... Stupid, I know but I couldn't help myself. Friday is payday and this is the first on the list. This community here is awesome. Thanks for everything you guys do!   

Hey PRJ, replied here from the Volvo ME7 thread as to not clog that thread with side questions.

Your logger supports ME9 but what protocol is it under? 

I don't suppose the "VAG ME7 C167 K-Line (Free) - Advanced" one works? lol.

No, that one does not work.
All the Volvo stuff (ME7, ME9) is under Volvo - Advanced and it's a paid protocol.

You can do an init in your car without having to pay for anything to check if I have def on server and what variables are available.
Should work fine with DiCE unit as it is J2534 compatible.

Ahhh, I must admit the price is a little steep for my taste just to get a truly barebones datalog that spits out a xml files so I can toss it into datazao and give it a look.

I have vida and think(?) I can extract the logs from it but it is annoying, not XML and running on a brick of a laptop that can't connect to online lol.

That said, I will 100% remember your product for when I am ready to truly start messing with things. I am still trying to just learn right now I can do whatever I do properly.

VIDA has a limited variable selection, this is a RAM logger with all the variables in the ECU available. It has more than 100x the variable count compared to VIDA.
Not even close to comparable. It's like comparing a Dacia to a Lamborghini.

Also, no XML here, CSV.

Tactrix open port works great