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Title: E85 Startup Post by: imolasb5 on July 06, 2012, 02:05:19 PM Hey guys, I took the plunge this week and switched to E85. I absolutely love it and I am pretty pissed I didn't do it sooner. Anyways, I was wondering if anyone has had some success, tips, or tricks on getting a better startup. I have tried a few little things to not much success. I have tried tripling FKSTT_1_A and FKSTT_0_A as well as tripling KFHSTT. I also tried adding a little in KZWWLNM (not sure if that even has anything to do with it). It seems that it has gotten a little better, but by no means is very good. Any input is greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: E85 Startup Post by: phila_dot on July 06, 2012, 05:17:04 PM It looks like multi-spark ignition is available in ME7.1 and can be enabled. It has been awhile since I have looked at it but it is documented in ZUE and AZUE in the FR.
Title: Re: E85 Startup Post by: imolasb5 on July 06, 2012, 06:12:22 PM It looks like multi-spark ignition is available in ME7.1 and can be enabled. It has been awhile since I have looked at it but it is documented in ZUE and AZUE in the FR. I totally forgot about it. I looked into a little bit when the last thread came up. Maybe this can be the answer. I will take another look see if I can up with something. Title: Re: E85 Startup Post by: masterj on July 07, 2012, 10:29:50 AM I'm also interested in this... E85 has always been a problem to start :) But since on low temps only 15% of fuel is actually burning I'm thinking of bumping fuel by 600% (100/15=~6). Also look at the ESSTT, ESNST functions... I think all we need to tinker is in there
Title: Re: E85 Startup Post by: imolasb5 on July 07, 2012, 03:42:46 PM I thought I would share my findings so far. These settings I am using have helped TREMENDOUSLY with my startup. It has gone from a good 6 seconds of cranking to about a second and fires right up. I multiplied the cold start enrichment tables by 1.25 and also the hot start by 1.25. I also decreased the minimum firing angle for low revs. It could probably get even better but now at least I don't feel like a jackass cranking the car forever. Let me know if anyone gets a chance to try them out and maybe refine it a little more.
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk231/dsmdave95/KFZWMNST.png) (http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk231/dsmdave95/Enrichment.png) Oh another note, I haven't quite figured out how to enable multi-spark ignition. It seems like we may be able to enable it via a few code words but haven't spent enough time with it yet. I will update as it progresses. Title: Re: E85 Startup Post by: kenmac on July 08, 2012, 08:50:41 AM Great work. I'll be heading down the E85 road shortly and will likely need to do the same.
Title: Re: E85 Startup Post by: nyet on July 08, 2012, 10:25:39 AM It looks like multi-spark ignition is available in ME7.1 and can be enabled. It has been awhile since I have looked at it but it is documented in ZUE and AZUE in the FR. I'm interested in this. I have very cold plugs and they take an extra crank to fire. Title: Re: E85 Startup Post by: phila_dot on July 08, 2012, 05:29:42 PM I took a few minutes looking into enabling multi-spark ignition.
For this to be active CW_FUBND > 0 and FWNMOT > nmot, both are zero in stock M box. KFFFANZ defines the number of added sparks based on nmot and tmot. FFLDZ controls dwell time from ub. FUBAOF sets open time. B_ff (Conditon sequential spark ignition) 0x00FDC2 0x4000 fubaanz 0x380DA7, size: 1, factor: 1 szfuba_w 0x382EA0, size: 2, units: ms, factor: 0.000667 offz_w 0x382E9E, size: 2, units: ms, factor: 0.000667 Title: Re: E85 Startup Post by: nyet on July 08, 2012, 05:38:39 PM Holy cow, thanks!
Can't wait to experiment with it. Title: Re: E85 Startup Post by: imolasb5 on July 08, 2012, 05:50:03 PM I took a few minutes looking into enabling multi-spark ignition. For this to be active CW_FUBND > 0 and FWNMOT > nmot, both are zero in stock M box. KFFFANZ defines the number of added sparks based on nmot and tmot. FFLDZ controls dwell time from ub. FUBAOF sets open time. B_ff (Conditon sequential spark ignition) 0x00FDC2 0x4000 I'll get the other variables next time I get the chance. CW_FUBND is where I got stuck the other day. I am unsure if maybe my memory address is incorrect. My research showed 0x1A335 and my value is 5. So I gave up for a bit. Yours is 0? Or am I at the incorrect address? Title: Re: E85 Startup Post by: nyet on July 08, 2012, 06:11:12 PM Is SY_FFZ non-zero though?
If not, the whole path may not exist in m-box Title: Re: E85 Startup Post by: imolasb5 on July 08, 2012, 06:24:12 PM Is SY_FFZ non-zero though? If not, the whole path may not exist in m-box Shiz. I got to take a look tomorrow. SY_FFZ was the system constant correct? Title: Re: E85 Startup Post by: phila_dot on July 08, 2012, 06:44:09 PM Is SY_FFZ non-zero though? If not, the whole path may not exist in m-box I haven't gotten all the way through it yet, but the code is there. Title: Re: E85 Startup Post by: phila_dot on July 08, 2012, 06:47:02 PM CW_FUBND is where I got stuck the other day. I am unsure if maybe my memory address is incorrect. My research showed 0x1A335 and my value is 5. So I gave up for a bit. Yours is 0? Or am I at the incorrect address? IIRC the correct location is 0x1A333. That is from memory though. I think the location in the G box was 0x1A335. Title: Re: E85 Startup Post by: imolasb5 on July 08, 2012, 06:51:43 PM IIRC the correct location is 0x1A333. That is from memory though. I think the location in the G box was 0x1A335. I will look again. I thought the G-Box was 0x1A333. I probably got screwed up when I was looking at it. Title: Re: E85 Startup Post by: sn00k on July 09, 2012, 08:15:17 AM interesting, multispark might really be usefull for e85 conversions.. i noticed it is enabled by default in my 032HN file.. but only at cranking rpms.. <1520rpm, and only adding 1-3 sparks between 150 and 1000rpm.. the way i see it, this should be easy to modify into something helpfull for igniting rich mixtures.. thanks for looking into this =)
Title: Re: E85 Startup Post by: phila_dot on July 09, 2012, 07:41:34 PM I added the rest of the variables from zuesz-band to my post on page one. I have gotten through most of ZUESZ, so if there is anything else in there you need just let me know.
Some day I will put together an updated ME7L *.ecu file, but I am limited to posting from my phone for now. Title: Re: E85 Startup Post by: nyet on July 09, 2012, 08:27:44 PM Thanks p_d.
Hopefully i'll have some time to try it out this weekend (using elevated tmot of course) I have to wait overnight to get real world tmot low enough to need multispark ;/ Title: Re: E85 Startup Post by: imolasb5 on July 10, 2012, 05:22:37 PM 1000 Thank you's. Just got my definitions setup. Going to play around a little. I will post it up as soon as I confirm my memory locations.
Title: Re: E85 Startup Post by: julex on August 17, 2013, 06:15:10 PM Old thread but I just implemented this myelf based on info above. I verified with oscilloscope connected to coil inputs, both charging and signaling and both show multiple events during one cycle, as you program them in KFFFANZ table.
This is what I set it up to so that I get multispark during cold, normal idle and elevated RPM. Not sure if this one (high rpms) would help any but okada coils fire multiple times and claim that this one of means to improve ignition. Title: Re: E85 Startup Post by: jibberjive on August 22, 2013, 11:54:08 AM It's obviously not cold yet, but any E85'ers notice improved startup even in the good weather?
Title: Re: E85 Startup Post by: julex on August 22, 2013, 12:14:40 PM I doubt anybody implemented this yet, I just posted to show that it actually works on our ECUs. There was a question of code path existence in M-box.
Title: Re: E85 Startup Post by: jibberjive on August 22, 2013, 07:09:11 PM Cool. I'll try to verify the K-box shortly with an O-scope.
Title: Re: E85 Startup Post by: savages4 on December 10, 2013, 07:35:39 PM Julex what address and conversion are you using for FFLDZ? Can you maybe post the stock values if you don't mind? I'm having issues locating this table, and what I've located doesn't look right.
Title: Re: E85 Startup Post by: imolasb5 on December 11, 2013, 10:46:59 AM Julex what address and conversion are you using for FFLDZ? Can you maybe post the stock values if you don't mind? I'm having issues locating this table, and what I've located doesn't look right. M Box information. Address 0x1F302 Conversion -0.000000+X*0.000667 The values in the screen shot above show stock values. Title: Re: E85 Startup Post by: savages4 on December 11, 2013, 11:56:43 AM Thanks! Any way you could also verify KFFFANZ map address? Also, in the areas where KFFFANZ is set to 1 that means multispark is disabled correct? Thanks.
Title: Re: E85 Startup Post by: imolasb5 on December 12, 2013, 09:33:55 AM Thanks! Any way you could also verify KFFFANZ map address? Also, in the areas where KFFFANZ is set to 1 that means multispark is disabled correct? Thanks. KFFFANZ 0x1A35C Yes you are correct. One means one spark count. Title: Re: E85 Startup Post by: ddillenger on December 12, 2013, 09:40:10 AM The 551R uses multispark as well.
Title: Re: E85 Startup Post by: savages4 on December 13, 2013, 10:34:27 PM I'm considering using multispark throughout the rpm band all the way to redline... I have year old oem s4 coil packs and I'm wondering if this will just fry my coil packs or what the thoughts are on it?
Title: Re: E85 Startup Post by: hipeka on December 14, 2013, 12:54:47 AM Yes you are correct. One means one spark count. I think 0=No multispark Look those maps that "julex" post. Title: Re: E85 Startup Post by: Jason on May 13, 2016, 06:55:12 PM I enabled multispark on an M box recently, and have noticed I will occasionally get intermittent short to ground DTC's on random coils.
Because these ignitions are so slow to charge, and the ignition window narrows with RPM, it's actually possible to request too many events per combustion cycle as RPM increases, and short to ground will be detected because the coil is charging when it shouldn't be. I have yet to throw my scope on it to verify. |