|
Title: 1.8t Audi TT 018H big turbo, stepped power delivery, large timing swings (steps) Post by: ibizacupra on August 06, 2012, 08:12:43 AM okies.. This one is proving to be a puzzle.. 1.8t, GT3076 turbo.. RS4 sized MAF, 830cc injectors....
when on part throttle progressively applying more throttle the cars power delivery feels stepped pull, stay, pull stay etc... It does it lesser so on wot in 4/5/6, but 3rd and progressive throttle you feel it a lot. the only thing I can see which also steps is logged ign timing, and it looks to me to be the cause, but I dont know why. Any suggestions on what might be intervening and what other info is required to help identify and fix this? Already tried is maf scales from stock TT225 to RS4, backing out a lot of timing so no CF's, switching off knock sensing completely, using another base file completely from 018BH, all do the same stepped delivery. (http://www.badger-5.com/bin/mapping/part-throttle-Hollie_TT_20120802_172939.png) Title: Re: 1.8t Audi TT 018H big turbo, stepped power delivery, large timing swings (steps) Post by: professor on August 06, 2012, 08:31:46 AM Switching off knocks its wrong, perhaps you could have chop them around 30-50%, but 100% its way too much.
Also those steps, from 8 to 32° ignition are way too much. You say ignition backing out but this thing here on boost, 4600rpm, delivers 32°. Have you measured knock sensors volt? block 26 on vcds. Title: Re: 1.8t Audi TT 018H big turbo, stepped power delivery, large timing swings (steps) Post by: nyet on August 06, 2012, 09:36:54 AM Torque intervention.
http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Tuning#Torque_intervention Title: Re: 1.8t Audi TT 018H big turbo, stepped power delivery, large timing swings (steps) Post by: ibizacupra on August 07, 2012, 01:25:26 AM Switching off knocks its wrong, perhaps you could have chop them around 30-50%, but 100% its way too much. Also those steps, from 8 to 32° ignition are way too much. You say ignition backing out but this thing here on boost, 4600rpm, delivers 32°. Have you measured knock sensors volt? block 26 on vcds. The log posted was'nt with knock switched off.. that would be daft.. timing was backed down a lot when that test was done, but the stepped delivery continued. not looks at knock voltage no.. timing pull during this is into 6'CF's on high load slow ramp rate for info. Title: Re: 1.8t Audi TT 018H big turbo, stepped power delivery, large timing swings (steps) Post by: littco on August 07, 2012, 06:06:41 AM Sorry to ask Bill as I'm sure you have, but have the axis's been adjusted to compensate for the larger loads being requested? I am assuming on a Gt30 your running up into 220 load in Kfmirl and is this reflected in the Kfmiop axis, timing axis etc.
It looks like the timing is flicking between max angle and min angle. have you also tried the 8n0906018CB file as I know this loads onto the 018H and runs ( I doubt it'll make a difference but might eliminate the 018h file being at fault. Title: Re: 1.8t Audi TT 018H big turbo, stepped power delivery, large timing swings (steps) Post by: nyet on August 07, 2012, 09:19:12 AM Log ARMD and torque monitoring variables to find out the source of the timing pull.
Timing oscillations like that cannot be knock regulation; the hysteresis is very very high. Title: Re: 1.8t Audi TT 018H big turbo, stepped power delivery, large timing swings (steps) Post by: ibizacupra on August 07, 2012, 09:29:13 AM Sorry to ask Bill as I'm sure you have, but have the axis's been adjusted to compensate for the larger loads being requested? I am assuming on a Gt30 your running up into 220 load in Kfmirl and is this reflected in the Kfmiop axis, timing axis etc. yea we flashed 018CB into it.. same thing..It looks like the timing is flicking between max angle and min angle. have you also tried the 8n0906018CB file as I know this loads onto the 018H and runs ( I doubt it'll make a difference but might eliminate the 018h file being at fault. its not requesting larger loads as much as you would think.. its been running in a few different guise's, with RS4 MAF tube TT sensor and scaled RS4 maf voltages and also TT scale on same RS4 housing. Its had axis adjusted up down, sideways, std... almost verging on thinking something weird with hardware/ecu.. log of that ecux plot here> http://badger-5.com/bin/mapping/part-throttle-Hollie_TT_20120802_172939.csv run in inertia mode on dyno on a progressive throttle application.. stepped power which correlates to the ign being yanked about madly Title: Re: 1.8t Audi TT 018H big turbo, stepped power delivery, large timing swings (steps) Post by: ibizacupra on August 07, 2012, 10:12:38 AM Log ARMD and torque monitoring variables to find out the source of the timing pull. Timing oscillations like that cannot be knock regulation; the hysteresis is very very high. hi.. I read your ARMD thread and saw similarities... the variables to log, would they be like you did? zwsol zwbas wkrdy zaldy miist misol zwist << the only thing I had logged of the above list so far Pardon my ignorence on these as I am not familiar with their functions (only used logger for a short while) but are these enough to log to determin the cause of this intervention do you think? any help welcomed.. it has a few of us baffled currently thanks Title: Re: 1.8t Audi TT 018H big turbo, stepped power delivery, large timing swings (steps) Post by: phila_dot on August 07, 2012, 10:55:28 AM If zwist follows zwsol instead of zwbas then you are experiencing torque intervention. You can then backtrack the intervention to MDZW, MDKOG, and ARMD to determine the cause.
Title: Re: 1.8t Audi TT 018H big turbo, stepped power delivery, large timing swings (steps) Post by: littco on August 07, 2012, 11:21:54 AM I might be off the mark here but looking at your logs and the graph below. Could it be that your specifying far to much load ?
Engine load requested and actual load are pretty good, and the Engine torque is pegged at near 70 across the board. Again only asking but is your KFMIRL and KMIOP interpolated correctly (matched) ? I was looking at FR earlier and there are 2 maps KFMI_um and KFZW_um which have 1 axis of rpm and the other % which looks from the FR that it's load related and if that's the case then the highest % axis on the CB and H are both 159 which might be that its increasing to reflect the 240 you are specifying. Like I say I it's just a suggestion Title: Re: 1.8t Audi TT 018H big turbo, stepped power delivery, large timing swings (steps) Post by: nyet on August 07, 2012, 09:15:19 PM run in inertia mode on dyno on a progressive throttle application "The anti-judder system may also interfere with your timing if your car is very fast, very light, or on a dyno with very little load. You can disable it under WOT by setting the last row of KFDMDARO to 50.000, and (optionally) copying over a few RS4 values for KFDMDARO/KFDMDADP/KIFZGHG" http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Tuning#Torque_intervention Lots more info here http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=1905.msg18422#msg18422 Read the whole thread if you want to know what to look for when logging. Title: Re: 1.8t Audi TT 018H big turbo, stepped power delivery, large timing swings (steps) Post by: ibizacupra on August 08, 2012, 01:45:54 AM "The anti-judder system may also interfere with your timing if your car is very fast, very light, or on a dyno with very little load. You can disable it under WOT by setting the last row of KFDMDARO to 50.000, and (optionally) copying over a few RS4 values for KFDMDARO/KFDMDADP/KIFZGHG" http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Tuning#Torque_intervention Lots more info here http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=1905.msg18422#msg18422 Read the whole thread if you want to know what to look for when logging. just to clarify... dyno was run in inertia mode only to show the issue it has on the road. Its a loaded dyno with variable load, but the step issue manifests itself much more with light load and progressive application of the throttle.. There are several maps KFDMDARO_ Is this the same as your S4/RS4? Change all of these to 50 the same do you think? When we ran this on emulator last week the 1-6 axis are gears. http://badger-5.com/bin/mapping/tt-KFDMDARO.JPG I have read your thread a few times... and slowly getting my head round it. Have you cured your issue? Title: Re: 1.8t Audi TT 018H big turbo, stepped power delivery, large timing swings (steps) Post by: nyet on August 08, 2012, 08:33:33 AM There are several maps KFDMDARO_ Is this the same as your S4/RS4? Change all of these to 50 the same do you think? S4 only has one.. You have three choices 1) change them all 2) change them one by one to figure out which it is, then post back here so people know ... 3) disassemble the code and see which is used :) Quote Have you cured your issue? Yup! Title: Re: 1.8t Audi TT 018H big turbo, stepped power delivery, large timing swings (steps) Post by: ibizacupra on August 09, 2012, 09:21:17 AM S4 only has one.. You have three choices 1) change them all 2) change them one by one to figure out which it is, then post back here so people know ... 3) disassemble the code and see which is used :) Yup! I am saving up for an ols300 emulator so faster changes to find out such things.. I have made some mods, to all of them for now and will see how they fare on the car when I see it next thanks for your help glad you fixed yours.. namely by using RS4 settings if I understood the ARMD thread correctly cheers Title: Re: 1.8t Audi TT 018H big turbo, stepped power delivery, large timing swings (steps) Post by: dera on October 06, 2012, 11:44:30 AM Unplug MAF, is it alot better then?
Title: Re: 1.8t Audi TT 018H big turbo, stepped power delivery, large timing swings (steps) Post by: ibizacupra on October 07, 2012, 07:55:56 AM Unplug MAF, is it alot better then? no maf does'nt make a difference no..changed some other tables and its slightly less but not yet gone away Title: Re: 1.8t Audi TT 018H big turbo, stepped power delivery, large timing swings (steps) Post by: littco on October 07, 2012, 08:10:37 AM Have you tried it with TI turned off to see if its that which is causing it?
Title: Re: 1.8t Audi TT 018H big turbo, stepped power delivery, large timing swings (steps) Post by: ibizacupra on October 10, 2012, 12:57:24 PM Have you tried it with TI turned off to see if its that which is causing it? TI?sorry not following you dan Title: Re: 1.8t Audi TT 018H big turbo, stepped power delivery, large timing swings (steps) Post by: littco on October 10, 2012, 01:12:16 PM Sorry torque intervention. I'm sure you've got it covered so really was just a suggestion. Seems to be topic of the month. :-)
Title: Re: 1.8t Audi TT 018H big turbo, stepped power delivery, large timing swings (steps) Post by: ibizacupra on October 10, 2012, 01:17:52 PM Sorry torque intervention. I'm sure you've got it covered so really was just a suggestion. Seems to be topic of the month. :-) I have applied all the ones that were told to me.. 4 of the 6 sent I had already done previously.. and it has'nt cured it which maps did you have in mind for preventing this? Title: Re: 1.8t Audi TT 018H big turbo, stepped power delivery, large timing swings (steps) Post by: professor on October 10, 2012, 01:23:44 PM Do you have a spare ecu to test?
Also have you check if eeprom has stored something unusual? Title: Re: 1.8t Audi TT 018H big turbo, stepped power delivery, large timing swings (steps) Post by: littco on October 10, 2012, 01:34:48 PM Tmnsmn set to -48
Tansmn set to -48 Kfmizuof set to 99.6 across the map Sure you know but These disable the torque monitoring. If the timing issue goes away then I guess you know it's torque maps are responsible. It's more a fault finder than solution. Title: Re: 1.8t Audi TT 018H big turbo, stepped power delivery, large timing swings (steps) Post by: phila_dot on October 10, 2012, 02:43:59 PM Tmnsmn set to -48 Tansmn set to -48 Kfmizuof set to 99.6 across the map Sure you know but These disable the torque monitoring. If the timing issue goes away then I guess you know it's torque maps are responsible. It's more a fault finder than solution. There's a codeword to disable torque intervention. It definitely looks like torque intervention to me. I am waiting for an M or L box S4 to crop up with a torque intervention issue to log some variables because I don't feel like sabotaging my file for the sake of testing. Edit: Easy way to confirm torque intervention is to log zwist, zwbas, and zwsol. If zwist follows zwsol vice zwbas, then it is torque intervention. Title: Re: 1.8t Audi TT 018H big turbo, stepped power delivery, large timing swings (steps) Post by: littco on October 10, 2012, 03:37:14 PM There's a codeword to disable torque intervention. CWMDKOL Title: Re: 1.8t Audi TT 018H big turbo, stepped power delivery, large timing swings (steps) Post by: phila_dot on October 10, 2012, 07:23:27 PM CWMDKOL CWMDKOL only affects slow path intervention (load) and is not very useful. CWMDAPP bit 0 is B_zwappl, which has the same effect as B_nozwe. If set, this bit forces zwist = zwbas. Title: Re: 1.8t Audi TT 018H big turbo, stepped power delivery, large timing swings (steps) Post by: ibizacupra on October 18, 2012, 04:47:53 AM Tmnsmn set to -48 I had tansmn, kfmizuof set but not tmnsmn... will try that one. Tansmn set to -48 Kfmizuof set to 99.6 across the map Sure you know but These disable the torque monitoring. If the timing issue goes away then I guess you know it's torque maps are responsible. It's more a fault finder than solution. thanks. Title: Re: 1.8t Audi TT 018H big turbo, stepped power delivery, large timing swings (steps) Post by: vwitch on March 11, 2014, 03:24:57 PM Why is the car asking for 32 deg of advance, I'm assuming at about full boost. I'm assuming 20 psi or more. I'd say with the best chamber work in one of these 5v head piston combos. You'd be looking at 10 deg at best.
Title: Re: 1.8t Audi TT 018H big turbo, stepped power delivery, large timing swings (steps) Post by: ibizacupra on March 12, 2014, 02:23:19 AM Why is the car asking for 32 deg of advance, I'm assuming at about full boost. I'm assuming 20 psi or more. I'd say with the best chamber work in one of these 5v head piston combos. You'd be looking at 10 deg at best. these can support way more advance than 10deg torque intervention from ARMD etc was what was messing with the timing and causing the steps We have cars on 400+bhp which happily support low 20 deg timing up top under 1.8bar boost as an example Title: Re: 1.8t Audi TT 018H big turbo, stepped power delivery, large timing swings (steps) Post by: aef on December 15, 2015, 07:25:09 AM Quote Edit: Easy way to confirm torque intervention is to log zwist, zwbas, and zwsol. If zwist follows zwsol vice zwbas, then it is torque intervention. what means "vice" in this sentence? my english is limited :( I am trying to understand why my ignition isnt optimal. Is zwbas the same like zwbasar_1, 2, 3 and zwbasar_4? Title: Re: 1.8t Audi TT 018H big turbo, stepped power delivery, large timing swings (steps) Post by: nyet on December 15, 2015, 11:22:09 AM what means "vice" in this sentence? my english is limited :( Probably a typo - likely meant "versus" |