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Title: ME7.5 Lambda goes to 0.75 at idle, engine protection feature? Post by: jtorres on September 20, 2012, 12:55:20 PM Hello, i was messing with a 1.8T that after starting the engine, the lambda goes to 0.75 ECU part 06A 906 032 KP I did changed a new wide band lambda at first but resulted the same. We also tested that ecu on another car and it worked fine, also another know well ecu on such engine with the same results (lambda 0.75!). I read about a protection feature of the ME7.5 that causes that lambda value in order to protect the engine, but after changing some sensors (IAT, ECT, etc.) the problem persist. What can be the reason for this? THX. Title: Re: ME7.5 Lambda goes to 0.75 at idle, engine protection feature? Post by: nyet on September 20, 2012, 12:57:33 PM DTCs? CEL?
Stock file? EGTs coded out? Title: Re: ME7.5 Lambda goes to 0.75 at idle, engine protection feature? Post by: jtorres on September 20, 2012, 01:06:35 PM stock file, I don´t have DTC´s at hand. I will post it later.
Title: Re: ME7.5 Lambda goes to 0.75 at idle, engine protection feature? Post by: jtorres on September 20, 2012, 01:10:47 PM This is a swapped engine 1.8T into a Golf MK2. It is not our first swap, but it is the first time with this problem. We did even tested a different engine harness :(
Title: Re: ME7.5 Lambda goes to 0.75 at idle, engine protection feature? Post by: k0mpresd on September 20, 2012, 01:11:41 PM n112 unplugged?
Title: Re: ME7.5 Lambda goes to 0.75 at idle, engine protection feature? Post by: jtorres on September 20, 2012, 01:14:26 PM I will take a look about the N112 this afternoon, i don´t have the car with me right now.
Title: Re: ME7.5 Lambda goes to 0.75 at idle, engine protection feature? Post by: jtorres on September 20, 2012, 01:20:04 PM Any other suggestion on what to check?
Title: Re: ME7.5 Lambda goes to 0.75 at idle, engine protection feature? Post by: jtorres on September 20, 2012, 09:01:52 PM DTC´s showed: N80, N249 open circuit ABS and data bus no comunication Nothing else. Title: Re: ME7.5 Lambda goes to 0.75 at idle, engine protection feature? Post by: nyet on September 20, 2012, 09:35:14 PM request is .75 or actual is .75 (or both)?
Title: Re: ME7.5 Lambda goes to 0.75 at idle, engine protection feature? Post by: jtorres on September 20, 2012, 10:09:57 PM Actual is .75 and request 1.000 Confirmed actual with external aem wideband. Title: Re: ME7.5 Lambda goes to 0.75 at idle, engine protection feature? Post by: prj on September 21, 2012, 02:05:34 AM Are you sure request is 1.0? What does lamsbg_w say?
If so, it means you probably have wrong injectors or incorrect fuel pressure. Title: Re: ME7.5 Lambda goes to 0.75 at idle, engine protection feature? Post by: hipeka on September 21, 2012, 02:14:59 AM Actual is .75 and request 1.000 Confirmed actual with external aem wideband. Does ECU shows actual 1.00 or 0.75 (Data logging, not measured) ? I had same problem when SAI+CAT HEATING was disable uncorrect. Ecu showed requested and actual 1.00 but real lambda value was somewhere near 0.8 . Thats because ecu request cat heating (more fuel + secondary air) but because SAI system were removed (pump+hoses+SAI diagnosis) it could not get secondary air in. That cause rich micture when idling a while and cat temp went low enought. Then i removed SAI+CAT HEATING "correctly" with help of this forum and local tuner -> all those idle micture problems went away. Title: Re: ME7.5 Lambda goes to 0.75 at idle, engine protection feature? Post by: phila_dot on September 21, 2012, 05:20:38 AM Does ECU shows actual 1.00 or 0.75 (Data logging, not measured) ? I had same problem when SAI+CAT HEATING was disable uncorrect. Ecu showed requested and actual 1.00 but real lambda value was somewhere near 0.8 . Thats because ecu request cat heating (more fuel + secondary air) but because SAI system were removed (pump+hoses+SAI diagnosis) it could not get secondary air in. That cause rich micture when idling a while and cat temp went low enought. Then i removed SAI+CAT HEATING "correctly" with help of this forum and local tuner -> all those idle micture problems went away. This makes no sense. SAI and cat heating affect the mixture through target Lambda. If lamsbg_w is 1 then it I don't see how that could happen. Also, I am assuming you have a wideband ECU with your reference to actual, so you are saying that lamsoni_w was also 1. Title: Re: ME7.5 Lambda goes to 0.75 at idle, engine protection feature? Post by: hipeka on September 21, 2012, 05:36:23 AM This makes no sense. SAI and cat heating affect the mixture through target Lambda. If lamsbg_w is 1 then it I don't see how that could happen. Also, I am assuming you have a wideband ECU with your reference to actual, so you are saying that lamsoni_w was also 1. At the time i was facing this problem i only had vcds in use so i dont what lamsbg_w or lamsoni_w were. I have wideband ECU. Only thing i am sure is that i couldnt pass exhaust test because lambda and CO values were too high -> after SAI and CAT HEATING mods values are really good. Title: Re: ME7.5 Lambda goes to 0.75 at idle, engine protection feature? Post by: littco on September 21, 2012, 05:42:49 AM Is the loom from the matching car the ecu came from?
Title: Re: ME7.5 Lambda goes to 0.75 at idle, engine protection feature? Post by: jtorres on September 21, 2012, 07:59:36 AM Is the loom from the matching car the ecu came from? I am not sure, ecu is from an AWW i will check from which car the loom came. we have the donor car at hand. Some times i though there is a wire or signal that is incorrectly feed to the ECU from hipeka: Does ECU shows actual 1.00 or 0.75 (Data logging, not measured) ? Yes at the block 31 the actual lambda showed .75 and requested 1.000, and confirmed it is pig rich with an aem wideband. Title: Re: ME7.5 Lambda goes to 0.75 at idle, engine protection feature? Post by: matchew on September 21, 2012, 08:22:42 AM What is lambda correction factor in block 99?
Title: Re: ME7.5 Lambda goes to 0.75 at idle, engine protection feature? Post by: jtorres on September 21, 2012, 08:29:11 AM What is lambda correction factor in block 99? i will check Title: Re: ME7.5 Lambda goes to 0.75 at idle, engine protection feature? Post by: phila_dot on September 21, 2012, 10:21:38 AM What is lambda correction factor in block 99? Just curious, why 99 and not 32/33? Title: Re: ME7.5 Lambda goes to 0.75 at idle, engine protection feature? Post by: jtorres on September 21, 2012, 11:17:42 AM Just checked car has a AWP wiring loom and we are using an AWW ECU (06A906032KP). Can be that the cause of the trouble? Is a swapped engine to a MK2 Golf remember. Title: Re: ME7.5 Lambda goes to 0.75 at idle, engine protection feature? Post by: jtorres on September 21, 2012, 11:22:38 AM found this harness comparison at vortex but cannot find something really different from AWW to AWP http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5049235-APH-AWW-AWP-AWV-wiring-harness-comparison Title: Re: ME7.5 Lambda goes to 0.75 at idle, engine protection feature? Post by: k0mpresd on September 21, 2012, 02:56:19 PM pretty sure 032kp is awp.
Title: Re: ME7.5 Lambda goes to 0.75 at idle, engine protection feature? Post by: jtorres on September 21, 2012, 09:32:43 PM pretty sure 032kp is awp. You are completely right, not sure why i was confused with that! What can be happen there? the car starts fine and after a minute the lambda starts to move from 1.000 to .75 and stays there. At block 99 the lambda correction is -26%. Inyection time at idle is around 1.76 ms when lambda shows 0.75, little high as the regular inyection time at idle is around 1.3 ms. I did checked the fuel return to the tank is OK and tried anoter FPR thinking it can be stuck close. Also tested another MAP sensor today with no luck. Several wires from the ECU connector was checked for continuity, also tried another lambda probe. There is no dtc´s other than the abs comunication and the data bus. N112, N80 and N249 solenoids were connected and DTC´s are off now. I am thinking that maybe some input are feeding the ECU incorrectly but checked the IAT and ECT and they have regular readings when connected and disconnected. I did also tested with the MAF plugged and unplugged, samo samo. I am kind of lost, this is not my first 1.8T swap, thinking to try another harness now. Title: Re: ME7.5 Lambda goes to 0.75 at idle, engine protection feature? Post by: matchew on September 21, 2012, 09:48:52 PM Is the engine, MAF and ECU from the same donor car?
Title: Re: ME7.5 Lambda goes to 0.75 at idle, engine protection feature? Post by: jtorres on September 21, 2012, 09:51:18 PM Yes, but anyway thinking of a failed MAF, when disconnected it is not suposed to go that rich at idle Title: Re: ME7.5 Lambda goes to 0.75 at idle, engine protection feature? Post by: prj on September 22, 2012, 02:43:51 AM Measure your fuel pressure in rail, leave ECU alone for now.
Title: Re: ME7.5 Lambda goes to 0.75 at idle, engine protection feature? Post by: Gonzo on September 22, 2012, 07:01:25 AM You need to resistor emission items.
Title: Re: ME7.5 Lambda goes to 0.75 at idle, engine protection feature? Post by: phila_dot on September 22, 2012, 09:02:32 AM You need to resistor emission items. How can it be related to emmisions components if target Lambda is 1? OP, are you sure the ECU matches all the hardware (i.e. injectors)? Title: Re: ME7.5 Lambda goes to 0.75 at idle, engine protection feature? Post by: k0mpresd on September 22, 2012, 09:41:29 AM plus he already said they are plugged in.
Title: Re: ME7.5 Lambda goes to 0.75 at idle, engine protection feature? Post by: jtorres on September 22, 2012, 10:12:01 PM Yes oem injectors with oem tune. All emissions are resistored now: N112, N80. Also N249. There is no DTC´s other than the abs and data bus. I am thinking on a bad harness or a bad connection that inputs a wrong signal or something like that. I will test another loom cause this thing is driving me crazy. Title: Re: ME7.5 Lambda goes to 0.75 at idle, engine protection feature? Post by: masterj on October 06, 2012, 04:58:19 AM I know where the problem is. If the ECU isn't from same engine with all components including, you have to adapt your GGxxx functions to these new components. For example I have reflashed my ecu to similar but different SW version. After that I had to transfer all the linearization maps for o2, maf and other sensors. You have to do this or just get ECU that was originally with the engine.
For the record, until I transfered GGLSU function's maps I also was having 0.75 for front o2 (look at the LALIUS map) Title: Re: ME7.5 Lambda goes to 0.75 at idle, engine protection feature? Post by: jtorres on October 09, 2012, 11:55:44 AM Hello, after doing several tests incluiding from simple things to elaborated as testing another wiring harness, i found that the problem was a faulty Throttle body :S
It was a little hard to find the fault as the first original TB was able to run the adaptation OK and a second TB too, so i discarded the TB as the cause. It was after trying a third known good TB that we can solve the .75 lambda issue at idle. One thing that we noted is that while with the faulty TB, if we allowed to enter just a little more air to the engine by the brake booster hose connection, the lambda at idle went normal. After that we tried the 3rd TB with success. I want to mention how we solve this, so you don´t have to go crazy like us with a fault like that! Thanks to everyone for your help! Title: Re: ME7.5 Lambda goes to 0.75 at idle, engine protection feature? Post by: masterj on October 09, 2012, 03:25:24 PM Hello, after doing several tests incluiding from simple things to elaborated as testing another wiring harness, i found that the problem was a faulty Throttle body :S It was a little hard to find the fault as the first original TB was able to run the adaptation OK and a second TB too, so i discarded the TB as the cause. It was after trying a third known good TB that we can solve the .75 lambda issue at idle. One thing that we noted is that while with the faulty TB, if we allowed to enter just a little more air to the engine by the brake booster hose connection, the lambda at idle went normal. After that we tried the 3rd TB with success. I want to mention how we solve this, so you don´t have to go crazy like us with a fault like that! Thanks to everyone for your help! Interesting, anyway to foolproof throttle body with me7logger or vcds? Title: Re: ME7.5 Lambda goes to 0.75 at idle, engine protection feature? Post by: phila_dot on October 09, 2012, 04:33:17 PM Predicted load throwing off fuel mass calculation?
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