NefMoto

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF9JZc5rRqk

What all could this do in theory? Will it make DIY tuning easier on cars with MED17.5?

I would never trust a chinese clone of a tool to do med17. 

ECU's are too expensive to mess up! Buy a real tool.


MED17 is no joke to tune either, if you dont know me7 and med9 forget it.

I've tuned several different cars from several different makers. This is my first Euro and I'm willing to learn.

"gotta pay to play"  ;D

"gotta pay to play" would be quite the opposite of "free as in beer" wouldn't it? I just need to be pointed in the proper direction.

Some more research I've done points to these being Alientech KTAG which aren't bad little flashers and are being used in several smaller tuning shops. They've got read and write capability to my ECU --what's next?

the tuning shops you speak of are you using genuine tools. no those sloppy chinese knock offs.

Okay. I'll buy the K-TAG from a reputable vendor then. Where do I go from there to learn? I don't see a n00bs start here section on this site.

Because if you are a n00b it is not a good idea to start with MEDC17. Start with simpler ECU's first.

I've been tuning the ECUs in my cars for over a decade. I'm only a n00b to the wackyness that is VW.

There are several cars with ME17.5 ECUs that can be tuned with SCT, Cobb and other flash devices & software --what is it about VWs that requires such an inordinate amount of effort. I see no way that my naturally aspirated VW Golf has more going on than cars like the 2013 Focus ST or 2013 Mazda Speed. All have MED 17.5 ECUs, and yet only the VW requires a bench flash and thousands of dollars in tools. I can use an SCT XCal 3 on a Focus ST and Cobb's flasher supports the Mazda Speed.

What's going on here?

So let's break it down.

For flashing you need a tool that will write your ECU.
The only one I am slightly familiar with that will do this is ByteShooter. The price with the needed module is 4900 EUR.
Some ECU's can be written with the Galletto 2 clone, but not all of them, and it can brick some of them.
I am sure there are other tools that work better than the Galletto 2 clone and are cheaper than BS that will write MEDC17.

So, let's say you have a tool that will read and write your ECU.
Next you will need to know how the ECU works and locate the required maps for tuning.
Usually leaked information about the functionality (funktionsrahmen) and the damos file are traded for money.
The older things are posted to this site as well.

This is assuming of course such information exists in the wild about your car. If it does not, it's back to basics of finding the maps.

Just out of interest. When you say "tuning" do you mean that you have used a flasher to write someone else's tunes, or have you actually made your own?

It's impossible to flash later MED17 ECU's OBD, so yes they do all need flashing on the bench.  The chinese tools that do this are a joke.  I managed to recover one ECU with a genuine tool, but the other two were cooked..

Rick

I was on the phone with both SCT and Cobb yesterday, and both told me that *most* MED17.5 ECU cars are tunable via the OBD2 port. Ford's 2013 Focus ST for example, can be tuned just by updating the firmware on an SCT XCal3 or 3015.

However, for whatever reason it may be; I will probably never be able to port flash this particular ECU in my 2013 Golf. So, the next questions are:

-Which tools should I buy?
-What software will be capable of reading and writing to my particular MED17.5?
-Is finding, interpreting and editing maps any easier than it used to be? Or is it back to HEX-edit with these ECUs?
-Is there a good walkthrough for an experienced DIY tuner new to the MED17.5 ECU, and new to Nefarious Motorsports?

i have this one: http://magicmotorsport.com/shop/index.php/magpro2-tools/products/magk00012m.html
it works great when magic feels like not being dicks.  ::)

Did your MagPro2 come with software? And why do you call Magic Motorsport dicks?

of course, software that works with the tool.

Does this software come with maps?

no.

#1 How easy is it to find the maps with the MagPro2 software?

#2 How does MagPro2 software compare w/ ECM Titianium?


Alientech appears to be using the term "drivers" in a different way than I am used to:


They also claim to have easy to have a tabular view similar to the SCT software I usually use:

ECM titanium is a joke, and useless for anything remotely serious.

There is no software pretty much that will "come with maps".
There are many thousands of maps inside the ECU. Unless you have the FR document for the ECU which details how the maps interact, you can pretty much forget tuning it.

As for finding maps in HEX, if you have a DAMOS for a similar ECU, then you can probably do it. Or if you have strong reverse engineering skills in ASM.

That is terrible english.

Are those US based companies?

Is it inferior to programs like SCT and Hondata? BTW I'm not trying to race my car, I'm just doing an E85 conversion and going to try to rig up ITBs. I *might* move to forced induction, but unlikely.

What would be better?


Then how does something like SCT or Hondata work? ECM Titanium appears to have a similar UI.

Alientech is from Italy. They're one of three companies who make software which works with VWs AFAIK.

Is there a better program for VWs?

If you have used for example Hondata in the past, first you need to forget everything you know about it or tuning Honda.
Bosch ecu's have for very long time been much much much more complex than those.
With typical old Honda setups, you get all the important maps and switches, even with customized ecu firmware. You can forget this with Bosch and virtually all new ecu's.
You can buy a tool that can read/write your ecu, but that's it. You can also buy software that you can modify your data file with, but that's it.
It is you who need to do all the work of learning how the ecu works and find all the maps, bells and whistles.
These tools are not limited, nor targeted, in any way to VWs.

I tuned a Focus ST which has the same ME 17.5 with SCT's software this past weekend with an XCal3 port flasher and "SCT Advantage" software. Friday I saw Cobb use their proprietary port flasher and software on A Mazda Speed 3 which also has an ME 17.5.

Why/how is this ME 17.5 in a 2.5L VW Golf MK6 different from those cars?


What tools and software should I buy?

Is there any software to aid in finding maps? Or do I just need to move into the basement and live on pizza like the early ECU modding?

Will you please link me to a manual or to some books to read that will get me started?


Why are only some cars ME 17.5 ECUs this convoluted? There are at least a half dozen cars with ME17.5 ECUs that are EASY to tune. Why is this one different?

Double Post

Good, so you are familiar with these ecus then. I googled a bit and found that even these newer 2.5l are not FSI (US market only). We don't have these ecus in europe (VAG), so cannot say anything specific to it. At first i thought you meant MED17, which is pretty complex to us mortals in the beginning of the learning curve.

I'm not familiar with SCT or Ford really, so cannot say what can and cannot be done.
I would imagine, if SCT software was freely configurable to any ecu, it would be used more widely already.
So i'm guessing when you load your file into it, it tells you automatically what is what.

Basic functionality is the same, firmwares may still be quite different. Allthough propably nothing you couldn't figure out. Car manufacturers might have different transfer protocols, encryptions, passwords, seed&keys and so on, that is why you cannot read or write all ecus with same tool.

WinOLS by german company EVC is pretty much industry standard, allthough there are others. Demo version is freely downloadable from their website.


Are there any? I don't know.

If you say the others are easy, so is this one.

The tools I have always used aren't compatible with this car. That's why I have to ask in the first place. This ECU is ME 17.5 which unless I am mistaken is AKA MED17.5.

It's tunable in American cars via SCT (even though the Focus I tuned is effectively a Euro import) and it's tunable in Subarus and Mazdas via Cobb. For some godforsaken reason however, in this particular VW --an ME17.5 is a nightmare and isn't even tunable via the VW DIY tools.

I've never paid for a tune, and I don't really want to start now. However, I'm not in keen to spend half the price of my brand new car on flashing tools only sold through what appear to be pyramid schemes.

VW's are not flashable because they enable "tuner protection" in their ecu's.  Therefore you need to bootmode read/write ecu, or unlock ecu then you can flash obd.

you will need winols and definition files to even start, the software you use now is a premade solution in a way, its inferior to winols.

You are comparing apples and oranges, ford / gm in my experience do not care about locking down ecu's at all from tuners. 


You are better taking your car to reputable tuner and paying for a custom tune in the long run.

I figured it was some sort of security protocol, and that VW wasn't keen to give people keys.


How would I go about doing this unlock or having someone do it for me?


Where do I get the definitions for my motor? Buy them?


A GTI is DIY tunable via port flash as is a Golf R. I seriously wonder if VW has this 2.5L base Golf locked down to move the modder crowd onto more expensive cars.


Everyone around here seems to be reselling tunes from guys I'll never meet face to face. I'm not comfortable with mailing my ECU off either. I may eventually have to do this, but I'm not giving up until I've exhausted alternatives. Tuners on the web that I never meet can't just see my AEM show A/F being off and fix it. And then every time I add mods, I'll have to mail the ECU off again. If there were a local guy who could tune this car --I'd be far more keen.

*edit --by here I mean Texas

no. 100% dead wrong.

no one here offering help
it always abt money
just want to know what to study and from what college to understand alll the ecus

Golf R has MED9 which can be read via OBD with relatively cheap tools. G6 GTIs are equipped with MED17 and requires different tools. I'm not sure about 2.5l specifically, but some (not all) MED17 versions require opening the ecu and using TriCore bootloader (there is an alternative though, but i think you might find breaking the 1024bit RSA encryption even more difficult and time consuming). There is no cheap way to do this. If you figure something out, please let me know.

If i were you, i'd download original file of some VAG MED17 and compare it to Ford or whatever equivalent. 2.5l org file might be difficult to find, but you could just ask from US companies that program these.

Then how are people tuning it via Maestro? How does the GIAC software switcher work? Both of those only work through the port.

I studied semiconductors (computer processors) at UNT. It's not all that much help in this sort of thing.

What tools would I use for this? MagPro2?


RSA 1024 isn't all that hard to crack. All you have to do is slow the flow of electrons with either a superfluild or by starving the PCB for power. Beyond that it takes collecting data for about a day and 100 computational hours to crack.

Thing is, even with my experience doing such things --I'm not doing this on a $2000 PC. I'd be risking the ECU to an $17000 car. And if I screwed up with the L-He or L-N2 VWOA wouldn't have to try very hard to figure out what the Hell I am up to.


There are only four companies online who will tune these cars and pretty much everyone else is reselling their tunes. NONE of them are willing to even SELL me a dump. They're on a minor power trip TBH. None of the big boys came out to play on this engine so "while the generals are away..."

this thread is obviously going no where.
pull your ecu. look at it. what is it? google it.
buy a tool.
buy a definition.
get winols.
start tuning.
done deal.

Dude you in Texas? there are plenty of places to get your ecu worked on, UM? Unitronic?

also, if you do add mods you do not need retuned, ecu will self adapt.  I can tune a gt35r big turbo with minimal logs, i know how the ecu works in and out.  I have tuned so many i have a solid setup, that will work, then tweak some timing/fueling if required due to meth or local fuel quality.  You pay professionals to tune this for you, they are pro's for a reason, experience.   

these companies should have similar experience if they wrote the actual file. 

I suggest talking to United Motorsports, they do good work on the N/A motors, or even his old company C2 Motorsports.

They all require that I mail them my ECU and wait at least two weeks. That is by far a last resort.

No to mention, they are NOT in Texas. UM is on the east coast, C2 in as well. The other company you listed is in Canada. NOT Texas.

The local UM and C2 dealers all have told me it's a mail in process. Not to mention there is no way I am believing you don't need to adjust with more mods. Unless these VWs are magic, intake and exhaust mods alter A/F and always will. I can believe that experience makes tuning these cars habitual --even second nature for someone like Jeff Atwood. His tunes can't be adjusted via port tools, so I'd still have to pay every time I needed A/F adjustments.

I already know I have an ME 17.5 --I can easily pull it, but that accomplishes nothing until I know what to buy.

To dump my own ECU would require a moneytary investment. I can't get a solid recommendation on which tools are the best bang for my buck and what I'll be spending. I WANT to buy stuff. What do I buy?

The definitions for my ECU are available for purchase where? See my dilemma? What do I buy, what do I need to learn apart from what I've learned already, and where do I buy this stuff.

That's all I want to know at this point.

if you want to know what to buy i would look at the manufactures website to see if your ecu type is supported.
you already have 2 that you know of to check out. (alientech and magic).

They alter VE not A/F.  The ECU has a target AFR that it will stick to very closely.

Rick

Do they have wideband 02 sensors too?

What are the part numbers of your ECU?

Yes, for around 10 years now.

Rick

tool for reading ECU
CMD
FG TECH
K-TAG
MAG PRO
sw tool for tuning map
WINOLS
SWIFTEC
ECM TITANIUM ( WITH DRIVER MANAGER)