NefMoto

hello all,

I am trying to locate the cam changeover map (KFNW) for my 4B0906018CH file to help spool. I think I have located the map at 1D522, but there are 3 maps at the location that look like it could be KFNW. The KFNW map for the M-Box that I am referencing is a larger map and has different axes. The FR says that the X and Y axes are NMOT_W and RLNW_W. Can anybody help me out finding this map?

KFNWSE is the only map you need .

It will show 18 and -4 in the table,

I spent a lot of time last year playing with this map, and I found what you gain in spool you lost in performance while the turbo was off boost, The car drove alot better with the a large overlap as you would find in a NA car over closing the overlap from 1000 rpm and running it as does at the 4750rpm where normal VVT switches. If you want to test the theory just set cdnws to 0 and that will disable the VVT and run the cams at the lower overlap value ie around 1 degree.

The M-Box definition file I am using has the map labeled as KFNW, so that is why I called it that. I did notice the FR uses KFNWSE. Any help finding it in my bin?

I am a little confused as to what you are saying as well. It was my understanding that VVT was only used during cold starts to heat the cats faster. Were you experimenting with a 1.8t or 2.7tt? When there is large overlap, I thought that the increased the manifold pressure to help a large turbo spool. It will have little effect on the 2.7's twin k03/k04s.

Some of the different ECU's have different cam changeover schemes, some with multiple maps.  For example, like you found out, the B5 S4 m-box uses KFNW, whereas the B5 RS4 k-box has bunch of different KFNW** maps (though from above, apparently the only on that matters is KFNW).

So the off boost performance is very noticeably different huh. Bummer.  Did you notice a gas mileage change when you were playing around with the different settings?  Did you ever try a 'midde-road- switchover point, like ~3500 RPM or something

Any help finding the KFNWSE maps in my file? Or at least some input on which of the 3 maps I found is correct?

Here your maps
Look at NWSOLLE

Hi .

With regards to the 1.8t , if you installed NA 20VT cams from one of the NA 20vt engines , would this effect EGT's - based on the VVT action and different profiles when compared to stock BAM cams ?

I can only talk about what I was testing at the time, which was a k04 hybrid on a 1.8t.

The original map was set for the switch at 4750rpm, I looked into as I was getting surge at around 3500rpm and 21psi, which is typical for the turbo really. I basically spent time change the switching RPM to see how it A) affected the surge point and b) performance.

Anyone that has run turbo motors on a fixed cam will know that overlap is a no no for a turbo, as when on boost the gasses get blown out the exhaust with the overlap, while a specific turbo cam has no overlap.

The main thing I found when i set the cam switch point lower was that the off boost performance espeically around 2k-2.5k was considerably more sluggish to the point I actaully didn't like the way the car drove, I put it down to the cam profile when it'sat 23 degrees offers a good performance increase as if you where running a NA car. When the turbo kicked in though it was a better drive. so it was a case of finding the point of lowering the cam switch point to a position where the off boost was good and on boost as well, which I think was around 3750 in the end. And that's where I left it.


The other thing that I noticed was that the MAF flat spot moved with the cam switch but that was down to where the kfzw maps switch as well

The thing is you were running a ko4 hybrid, which is still a small turbo and has almost no lag. My turbo is a garrett 60 trim, which doesnt make full boost until ~4500 RPM. The effect of massive overlap has a positive effect on big turbos, as manifold pressure and temp rises. This helps spool turbos with larger exhaust housings.

Thank you very much!! But any chance I can get just the addresses? WinOLS won't let me use that map pack because it says its from a newer version.

KFNWSE should be located around 0x282xx but cant find the exact location.

Here your CSV map list

Thanks! Now I just need to find axes and scale, and then test it out! I'll report back with logs if anyone is interested.

Waiting for your result.
If help needed with axes let me know.

Also interested in the results of this.  :)

To do this right means to do cell by cell tuning for KFZW and KFZW2 on a dyno by forcing the camshaft position one way or the other, as well as measure torque output in both conditions, and then pick the switch point where one output becomes higher than the other.

KFNWSE
RPM=134BC
LOAD=13552

Ok, so progress has halted. I reinstalled windows, and I guess my hardware ID changed for the tunerpro ME7 plugin. The checksum wasnt updated and I flashed the car. I didn't have time to deal with a bricked ECU so I bought a stock one and flashed it. The car runs fine now, but I can't update checksums yet. As soon as I get the plugin working again I'll log with Vvt on and off.

I could correct the checksum for you in my tunerpro if you would like catbed.  :)

Thanks, but the checksum problem is taken care of. Murphy's law kicked in and took my coils.  ::) New coils are on the way, and I'll report back after they're installed.

Any updates ? Did you test changeover , any improvment ?

Sorry I've been pretty busy back at school. Between my senior design project and my coil problem I haven't had much time. But I fixed the coils so its time to get back at it.

I enabled NWS and definitely noticed a difference. It's not day and night but the car is much better to drive now. I've got a new MAF and n75 coming in this week then ill take some logs to be sure.

If only I had a dyno in my garage ha.

I play with cam changeover on 1.8t K03S , i set cam change as was original in the BAM 018H box 1240rpm - 4000rpm,
after cam changeover from 1' to 22' i noticed 2 things - turbo wasn't able to handle anything above 1 bar (k03-052) , car have spool like a sh*t.  after about 4000-4500rpm cam return back to 1' and car was run very well as before.
logs

when cam is set to stock changeover 1' or when unplug n205 cam valve , car make ton's of boost (easily boost over 1.2-1.3bar) and spool is much better , car is strong as should be.


So what is wrong ? maybe the turbo like k03s is to small ?

when the cam switches it acts like a n/a cam setup opening the inlet cam early, which is great for a n/a car but on a turbo isn't good, what you find is the inlet and exhaust cam are open at the same time and can blow inlet gas out the exhaust... It's not the k03s is too small but it boosts too quickly and thus there is no need to have an open inlet cam so early, it works well on BT turbos that lag or even on a k04 which isn't quite as responsive as a k03s..

What you need to look at is just adjusting the cam switch map, so instead of running a k04 map, tune it so that you get benefit from using it in high gears low rpm where boost will slower. The point where the turbo kicks in full is the point where you need to run 1, anything where boost is "lacking" is where 22 is good, just think of the map at 22 benefit the engine where the turbo doesn't.

On larger laggier turbos using the map to keep the inlet open longer helps, as soon as you have any sensible boost you need to have little or no overlap to stop inlet charge escaping, however there is some evidence that having the inlet valves open whilst the exhaust valves are open can have a cooling effect on the exhaust gas leaving the cylinder but also a heating effect on the inlet charge.. I have no proof of either though.. I can say on running hybrids tuning the cam switch can help with later spool, I assume the reason vvt switching in the k03s maps isn't used is solely because they spool pretty early anyway.. But like said I think you can gain something from them if done correctly..

good post.

I just finalized my MAF set-up this weekend so I should be able to grab logs soon. Finals week is coming up though so no promises yet.

littco - very good stuff , thanks for your input ! apploud!
i have one question - if big overlap help spool , and should be used only for spool in non boost moments - why on k04 map is going so far to 4000rpm ( on logs off 4500rpm) ?and why on k04 charge isn't escape so quickly ? it is big type turbo that can make big boost  or what ?

I think it's a bit more complicated than that.
It must be related to the proportion of intake pressure (MAP) and exhaust manifold pressure (EMAP).
It should be beneficial to run big overlap when MAP/EMAP >= 1, or maybe a little lower also. This helps to positively flush the combustion chamber.

At a load/rpm point turbine housing gets fulfilled and EMAP goes very high. Then this rate gets down to 0.5, or even 0.33 so the exhaust pressure is two or three times more than the intake pressure.  At those points overlap should be minimized, otherwise backward flow happens.

Serious drag racer guys who are running really big turbines keep this rate >=1 all the time, and running NA cams with big overlap (and often no VVT) 
-but that is a very special case utilizing high flow components and frequency tuned runners all over the place.

And no question that OEMs have other points besides performance, like low emissions, fuel consumption by fast cat heating, internal EGR...