NefMoto

After many months of planning, saving, buying/selling, and many more months spent with the Audi Service Manual, piles and piles of parts, and some torque wrenches & plastigauge in my garage - This motor is mostly together.  2000 Audi A6 2.7T, Sport Package, Manual Transmission, 75K miles.

Drivetrain

• APB Block, 82mm bore
  ATQ Heads fully built, new guides and lifters, polished cams, mildly ported and all Supertech Valvetrain (Inconel, Nitrided SS, Spring Kit)
  3L Crank, re-balanced
  Wiseco 8.5:1cr Forged Pistons
  Pauter X-beam Rods
  ARP Main Studs
  034 Bearings throughout
  Eurospec Non-Stretch Head Bolts
  Heavily Ported Stock Exhaust Manifolds (enormous PITA.  No wonder VAST used to charge so much to do it)
  Heavily Ported Stock Intake Manifold
  Stock Throttle Body
  Nefmoto Software and Tuner Pro
  CM Stage 4, 6 puck disk.  Machined OEM Flywheel
  Deatschwerks 320lph in tank pump mounted inside stock gutted pump
  JHM RS6R Turbos
  ARD '05.5 AR Aluminum TBB, 2.125" Bi-Pipes APR Bi-pipe, 4 bar map sensor, 5120 Mod
  ARD 3" Downpipes
  DIY 3" to 2.5" catless mid-pipes
  DIY Dual 2.5" Exhaust (2x Magnaflow 10426, 2x Magnaflow 11226)
  ARD 95mm MAF tube/K&N open air element
  Bosch Racing EV14 Porsche 997 650cc Injectors Bosch 980cc EV14 running E85
  SRM SMICs
  Innovate LC-1 Zeitronix ZT-3, STE PPD
  DIY PCV, Air/Oil Separator
  DIY Oil Cooler Unnecessary
  EFK, switchable between Manual and Auto
  etc etc

Chassis

• Koni Sport Shocks w H&R Sport Springs.  Fronts - Sleeved, Rears - 4 grooved height settings
  B5 S4 rear calipers with B7 S4 rotors. 034 caliper spacer
  Porsche Cayenne 17Z Front Calipers over D/S 330mm Volvo V70R Rotors.  18Z Centric ceramic pads
  Hotchkis F/R Sway bar Kit
  034 Street Density Control Arm Kit w Adjustable Uppers
  034 Street Density Engine and Transmission Mounts
  JHM DTS
  18x8 Hartmann R8 Reps
  034 Snub Cage/Mount

Tuning - Just a nefmoto lurker/learner/beginner, I've played with files that already ran, but this will be the first attempt at tuning a setup starting from scratch.

ARD provided all the numbers needed to get the injectors dialed in.  Tuning for the MAF and all else will be new territory.

I hope to hear any and all your criticism and advice.

Tuning started with a stock M-Box file.  Car has a Hitachi Maf now installed.

First Steps

• KISRM changed from stock 0.120435 to 0.134850 for change in displacement
  KUMSRL changed from stock 0.00107200 to 0.00114400 for change in displacement
  Coded out rear 02 and EGT sensors per S4Wiki
  Set Fuel System correction maps to 1
  Added rudimentary launch control at 4000rpm, and raised rev limit to 7500.
  Removed speed limiter
  Tweeked TVUB for new injector latency values
  KRKTE ended up at .04995 on stock MAF initial tune

All is ready to bolt them on.   Hopefully in a month this car is up and running.

Anyone using the Innovate LM-2 for logging ecu data/afr?  Impressions?  Worth the extra $$$?

(http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/1075/build007.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/542/build007.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

(http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/3465/build008.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/829/build008.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

Just a few more parts and ceramic coatings.

(http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/421/clutch003.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/705/clutch003.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

UGH

I think I just soiled myself. VERY nice.

THAT is badass. Also I am a fan of low CR builds.

very excited for this thread!  beautiful build...

A couple of updates to the build:

• Transmission/starter are now mounted to the motor
• Piston size listed above as 81.5mm was mis-typed. Pistons are for 82mm bore (which is actually probably pretty close to 81.5mm since they are Forged from 2618 alloy).   I'm crossing fingers and beheading chickens in hopes that I don't end up with the same issues Julex had with his Wiseco's.  
  
• ARD Bi-Pipe is a new design using a metal TBB boot, bolted to the TB through the stock holes, and V-banded to 2.25" bi-pipes with meth bungs.   Seems to be a nifty product, so I'll post pics once it arrives.
  
  • Intercoolers are now on hand, made by SRM.  Time will tell on performance, but for now, they sure do look nice....and big
  
  The d/s turbo oil inlet seems to have a sealing issue and it looks like the problem is potentially several issues so the oil line, bolt and the banjo fitting will need to be replaced.   $100 +
  
  I started looking into the Induction Motorsports Oil Line Kit (http://"http://www.4induktion.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_28_44_118&products_id=74&osCsid=3547ecf5c591073a4120db40dc3a14e4") $200 shipped
  then quickly realized a kit like this could easily be diy'ed with something like:
  
  -
  
  • 4 x 12mm banjo to AN -4 fittings, steel - $50
    8 x 12mm copper crush washers < $1
    12" PTFE Braided AN -4 Hose - $10
    20" PTFE Braided AN -4 Hose - $10
    3' of High Performance fire sleeve - $15
  
  I couldn't find specs for the K series turbos, but it looks like Borg Warner recommends AN -4 for their other turbos so I will assume this will work. 
  

Well, I'd hoped to have the got the first start out of the way by now, but for those who've taken on projects like this, there are always those little annoying delays no matter how well you plan things out.

Motor and Transmission are all together, wired, plumbing is all fitted
As of Friday, I'll have a new set of 3" downpipes minus RS6 style flanges
and still waiting for the LC-1 (Innovate 3796)
Once the parts arrive and I can get the flanges and 02 bung welded in, there will still be a two week delay for ceramic coating, ugh!

It's these delays though, that help to keep from making inpatient mistakes.  Gives us a chance to correct those things that might have been half-assed.   Add more fire-sleeve, heat shielding, clean-up some sketchy wiring, verify and re-verify fitment and torque specs....but mostly just end up buying more parts:

• 5/16 Heim Joint diy Transmission shifter assembly crossmember
  Custom AN6 Turbo Oil Lines (14mm Hex bolts for the 12mm banjo fittings - much more room)
  Custom 3/8" ID Coolant Return Lines (17mm Hex bolts for the 14mm banjo fittings - also, much easier to install)
  Replace factory boost reference/wastegate lines with some 250 psi, 400* push-loc
  Braided Stainless PTFE Clutch Line
  $200 + 2 hours on AZ + 3 hours of Nefmoto = FSI Coil Conversion
  Wrap everything in this: http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-fire-sleeving/=lo5hgi  (http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-fire-sleeving/=lo5hgi)

If I have to sit around much longer, I will paint my entire Tornado Red A6 to either Charcoal Metallic or Meteor Gray Metallic

previous stock motor stage 3 for 2 years
(http://imageshack.us/a/img838/9421/imag0649c.jpg)

Free - I just had to dismantle the engine for the shop's use of the heads, and pay them 75% of the $ I got for recycling the block
(http://imageshack.us/a/img513/4388/imag0696x.jpg)

Not Free
(http://imageshack.us/a/img163/527/imag0695p.jpg)

Was supposed to be a cool pic of the ATQ in the foreground, APB background - Camera phones, what could I have expected?  This:
(http://imageshack.us/a/img819/3771/build009.jpg)

Installed the motor/transmission today. 

Engine fired up within 10 seconds, which seemed unusually quick - Lines were purged in September.
 
I'll be running the stock maf while I fine tune injector constant, and seat the rings.

Two things I was pleasantly surprised by today:

• No leaks anywhere... yet.
  SRM intercooler fitment.  They installed in 5 minutes a piece, and there is plenty of room in the oil filter area for the sandwich plate, and possibly the high capacity filter.

One thing that sucked: Bleeding the clutch.  It was just more a pain in the ass that it should have been for some reason.  Still doesnt feel right either.  I'm starting to wonder if the master cylinder went out.

Here's a couple camera pics during the install.

(http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/218/0316031106.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/51/0316031106.jpg/)

(http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/2849/0316031559.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/856/0316031559.jpg/)

beautiful!

Worked on the ride a few evenings this week, I've got just about everything on the car ready to roll out.  Car starts and runs great.  Ended up with some coolant dripping down near the oil cooler, but it looks like it was just building up on the block due to me not cranking down the coolant bleeder bolt.

Clutch issue I mentioned just turned out to be this: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/234720-Clutch-Slave-Cylinder-Install-Tips-and-Bleeding-101-by-JHM (http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/234720-Clutch-Slave-Cylinder-Install-Tips-and-Bleeding-101-by-JHM).  Front end of the car was too high when bled.

So far, after logging idle and part throttle while parked, I am seeing basically 0 STFT.  Fluctuates between about 2 and -3 on both sides-not simultaneously, but mainly stays at 0.   KRKTKE is 0.04995 with Bosch Racing 650cc/min injectors, and idle is smooth as butter. 

Car sounds very tame with a pair of Magnaflows (pn 10426 and 11226) per side with 2.5" mandrel bent tubing - 3" downpipes and no cats.   

I'm dying to take a test drive, but the brakes aren't quite done.

Just waiting (story of my life, right?)  on a pair of new front brake lines.  I'd originally planned on using banjo fittings, but I always felt for the Brembo setup, that the banjos could ratchet themselves loose under the right conditions, so I decided to go with 10mm to AN3 adapters at the calipers, then back to 10mm at the end of the hardline from the ABS, with a foot of AN3 in between.   Seems to make the most sense, and keeps the lines well away from anything the could rub, snag, or twist them oddly when steering lock to lock.

I will have a set of the JHM Rear S4 SS brake lines for sale, as the A6 rear lines are much shorter.  15" of brakeline back there is just way too much.   I guess the lines are run a little differently between those cars.   The S4 has a second section of rubber hose.


   

Started on the oil cooler mount today while I wait for the brake lines.  It won't get installed until the car is broken in, but at least the hoses and mounting brackets will be ready to go.

Anyone else here end up getting screwed over by this? http://articles.latimes.com/2013/mar/13/business/la-fi-hr-block-blunder-20130314 (http://articles.latimes.com/2013/mar/13/business/la-fi-hr-block-blunder-20130314)

Damn, I filed on January 29th, and I still haven't got my taxes back.

Looking very neat! Great job. I guess those injectors are another ev14's? What TVUB did you end up with?

Injectors are these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bosch-Racing-60lb-650cc-injector-Volvo-Porsche-VW-Audi-B5-S4-2-7-/330827200622?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4d06d6786e&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bosch-Racing-60lb-650cc-injector-Volvo-Porsche-VW-Audi-B5-S4-2-7-/330827200622?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4d06d6786e&vxp=mtr)

EV1 connection did not require an adapter, nor did the injector height require fuel rail spacers. So far so good. No misfires, and the car idles like a champ.

Nozzles have 6 holes, same as my previous EV14s.  My initial break-in file w/stock MAF is attached.

  

Thanks for sharing, I'm waiting for same injectors for my rs4 ASJ, also figured KRKTE around 0.05 +/- from other EV14's comparison, though calculated is smth like 0.045.

Interesting injector choice. I didn't know about those!

Do you have latency specs for them?

are they the same as these?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-EV14-Bosch-650cc-Fuel-Injectors-Flow-Matched-SET-FITS-Hyundai-Tiburon-Genesis-/370595645972

While we're on the subject of alternative injectors, what do we think about these?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/03-04-Mustang-Cobra-Ford-Racing-39-pound-Fuel-Injectors-/230870732554?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item35c0f7cf0a&vxp=mtr

They can be had used for around 100 bucks for 8, add flow testing and cleaning and you're still looking very good on the price. The datasheets are readily available as well.

Bosch part number is 0 280 158 123 with ' xT' 24mm extension per the attached data sheet.  There is also a 997 part number on the injector body.  

Hard to know if they are the same with the exception of the extension without knowing the part number. There are so many out there with so many variations of spray patterns. The Bosch documentation is a good reference to show how many factors there are besides flow.

I'm sure there are plenty of affordable solutions out there, but you'd definitely need to get the part number to research the spray pattern.

4 bar latency values are listed in the M-box file attached on my previous post.  Note the voltage axis is modified from stock as well.

Awesome build!  Glad I stumbled onto this, well done.


Yup, the injectors are the same as those that Five0 sell, as well as USRT, myself and possibly a few others.  Great injectors for our 5 valve Audi's, and their dual cone pattern, cone angle, and offset angle better match the stock RS4 specs than any other EV14.  And like he mentioned, they have EV1 electrical connectors, so no need for adapters.  They are the best EV14 injectors that someone can buy for our cars IMO, for someone looking for an injector around that flow rate (if someone is looking for higher flow rate, there are better options around 1000cc.)

I've been taking the car out for some initial break in runs each night over the last week.  My first impression of the stroked motor is ....WOW.

I just got home, so still a bit giddy.  

I'm finding it difficult to break in properly because the car has such improved low end torque; then gets into positive manifold pressure so fast.  It been nearly impossible to sustain a moderate load for more than a few seconds.  

I've been staying in 3rd and 4th and starting around 1500 rpm.   The motor does not bog down.  Obviously, it doesn't quite feel like an N/A V8, but it's pretty solid.   Boost hits around 2500 rpm, then shift.   This is all under 60% throttle.

I've also noticed that even with the stock flywheel, the motor revs out very quickly.  It takes forever to warm up to full operating temp as well.   I'm sure the stroke helps with the revving.  My question is how much would the rings, bearing coatings, and polished cams and crank journals have to do with it?    How much noticeable across the board power should this equate to?

Because I sure think I feel it.  (yeah, yeah... that's what SHE said)

Anyway... that's my report for now.  Over the next month, I'll get some logs, pics, and video with decent sound quality.   The exhaust note is remarkably tame.... at idle.

In addition to discovering and correcting the reason my car had run like crap on an EPL Stage 3 tune (EGT Faults were coded out, but not EGT function), I deleted the ridiculous brake safety throttle cut.

Went out again this evening, and drove the A6 for about 45 minutes.   Run after run of left foot braking while keeping the engine under continuous load.  Then did about 15 minutes of 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gear pulls at 1 bar.  I think the rings should be seated by now.

This weekend, I've got to throw in the aluminum TBB, V-Band Bi-pipes, and the 95mm MAF tube.   Then the real tuning begins.

As a side project, I had to do some work on my front bumper and re-spray it (2 years of bumper hack job running the JHM FMIC.  Too many supports were cut out, so I had to stiffen it up a bit). 

Since a gallon of Charcoal Metallic was only a few bucks more than a quart of Tornado Red, I made a rash decision and went with the Charcoal.  So I guess I have a bit of another project.   Paint the rest of the car.  Fun, Fun.    If it saves me one speeding ticket, it was worth it.

Cheers.

Actually, UPS decided for me.  Didn't get a few parts in time for the weekend swap-out.

It works though.  I decided to log a bunch more with the stock MAF to get some good baseline airflow readings at specific boost levels.   I added an MBC in parallel to simplify logging at x, y, and z boost levels.  Plus I was getting huge boost spikes, but surely didn't want to spend a lot of time dialing in boost PID at low boost break-in levels.   I'm sure I will leave it on the car, then just tune the wastegates to just control boost ramp enough to not have that ON / OFF harshness that you'd get with the MBC standalone.

Painted some trim and the mirrors this evening.  Then pushed the car a little bit more tonight, and this car just rips.  Just got home from about an hour of logging/driving spiritedly (under 5500rpm still), and I'll say it again.  The low end torque and throttle response as well as spool from this setup is amazing.  Absolutely amazing.

For one, I haven't built a motor since high school auto shop class, I'm still excited that it started and doesn't leak anything.
Two, this car was PJK04 Stage 3 EPL car prior to this incarnation.  and that stage 3 car was pretty sweet, but even at 15 psi, this car feels completely different.    

And of course, I can hear the PPPSHWWOOOOOOSSHHHHHHHH of the riduculous amount of airflow rushing through the bypass valves every time I let off the throttle.

So, if anyone is interested, I should have some FATS pulls Friday night to post up.  Car should be up to it by then.  Will still be around 15 psi, and stock MAF housing.  I might turn it up a little to see what pressure it will take to max out the stock maf which is around 337g/s?

Any Guesses at what boost level for a 3rd gear pull will do it?

Any guess what these are? Look hard.

The problem with the ASJ/AZR is that all that stuff about nice spray pattern goes to waste, because you will be spraying that dual cone of yours exactly into the manifold/port wall.
For RS4 application it is much better to either just get the 980cc Bosch Motorsport with 30 degree cone... or there is actually ONE injector Bosch produces that matches the specs quite well and does not cost 2000 EUR a piece ;)
These with dual narrow cone will need lots of wall film adjustment to get good throttle response.

---

As to OP - your project is looking great.
Regarding MBC - you need to learn to use the LDRAPP and CWMDAPP constants. And you can make runs at fixed DC.
If you want your boost control to work decently you will have to anyway.

The one that I found that closely matched the RS4 injector specs was indeed crazy expensive.  I guess I'll go look for a different one that apparently is out there.

More Info on this DREAM build Please !!! Prettiest Eye Candy I've ever seen. Would you have done anything differently ?? I will be Building my A6 soon !!! By the way the Bore, your Built heads and quick spooling Turbos are why this Engine Revs so quickly !!!

Tried out the new intake this weekend and set up the base tune with the new 95mm MAF Tube.  The car is running pretty well... rich, but not too bad.  Safe to continue.

PRJ - I appreciate the post.  It reminds me why I posted the build here: To learn to tune from start to finish.  The right way. 

My patience was pretty decent throughout the mechanical portion of the build.  Now, I think is the most difficult time.  When the car is running and driving, yet nowhere close to "done".  Too easy to want take shortcuts.

My question is for the gurus, where in the tuning process are you setting up Boost PID? http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=517.0 (http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=517.0)

It seems like if tuning on the street, this would immediately follow the rough fueling and maf tuning.  Meaning, once the car is running decently with safe AFRs.   Is this correct?   It doesn't seem like one could fine tune anything else until boost is under control.

Anyhow, test fitting this weekend:

(http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/5919/newtbbintake.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/705/newtbbintake.jpg/)


And a couple more pics from the last few months.   


(http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/7471/imag0847f.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/802/imag0847f.jpg/)

(http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/6880/imag0702k.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/18/imag0702k.jpg/)

As a whole, I wouldn't do much differently.  Here are a few things I was proud of, and some things to think about:
Machine shop, Import Engine Supply did a great job on the block/heads/crank/ and verifying pin fitment/rod fitment.  They Spec'd everything down to the 10,000th, and taught me a ton..... just make sure you tell your machinist - better yet, write in paint pen on the crank - to not fill in the crank pin hole when balancing the RA.

Be sure to transfer the oil pump cog from the 2.7 crank.  They are different sizes.  10 minutes in the freezer and install is a piece of cake.
Install the front and rear flanges with oil pump chain and tensioner right after you get the rotating assembly in.  THEN do the other things like oil pump/upper oil pan.

Speaking of oil pump/upper oil pan, if you go with main studs, be sure to test fit, grind, and re fit until these will fit with clearance on pump/pan with the main studs torqued.   Do this prior to ever pulling the crank out of the plastic.

Plan for many, many hours when file fitting your rings.

I would use some assembly lube without Moly' next time.  The oil filter on change after first start up weighed a ton. 

I would consider skipping on the non-stretch headbolts next time - just because it sucks cracking open your valve covers again after its starts and warms up but before you drive it... It is good to have the insurance though.  Also, if you go with 034/Eurospec Headbolts, they use the regular 12pt not the polydrive.  I was kicking myself and cursing them for a week while I waited for the 12pt to arrive.
 
Lots of questions still to be answered though:

• How will these intercoolers perform on this setup? 
  Will the RS6Rs flow enough for a 3L to take advantage of the build heads?
  Will the clutch hold?  (I was on the fence between the ceramic and the feramic.  I went with drivability and crossed fingers)
  Damn did I torque the rod bolts?  Kidding.
  And what kind of torque/power will this make
  What will my ET/TRAP be at Firebird International Raceway (FIR) this summer @ 2700 feet above sealevel?

I'd have liked to have used 4032 alloy pistons, but I didn't see an option for them on a stroker build. Maybe Supertech?  If this motor fails, I will go with these: http://www.intengineering.com/mahle-2-7t-30v-piston-set-81-5mm-bore-86-4mm-stroke-9-1-cr (http://www.intengineering.com/mahle-2-7t-30v-piston-set-81-5mm-bore-86-4mm-stroke-9-1-cr)
My spare block is already bored/honed for them.   Another thought would be to build a high compression E85 motor, but then we are back to the higher thermal expansion alloy.

ANYONE HAVE A CONNECTION ON 4032 Alloy Custom Pistons for stroker or high comp set-ups?

Everything about this build is for a daily driver with a mean torque curve.   Warming up the car for 15 minutes gets to be a chore every morning.

Need any parts for your build?  What's left of the the gray car is for sale!!

(http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/4922/imag0845y.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/15/imag0845y.jpg/)

You can just tune with fixed DC through LDRAPP, KFLDRAPP and CWMDAPP.
Boost control is the last thing really.

Using LDRAPP or KFLDRAPP to fix the duty cycle will also allow you to visit more load sites if road tuning.

Wow I am Amazed at your skill level and dedication !! Again awesome build and I used to Race my cars at Firebird as well, I also am a Chaplain with RFC and used to support that track as well as SCCA events. I am an IE DEALER so whatever you want let me know and I'll help out the best I can...

if i read the datasheet right these injectors will fit quite the same, apart from that they are not compact style like 980cc, spacers needed for rs4, no big deal, jet inclination is the same/none in both cases, or am I missing smth?
http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm235/jibberjive/VE%20Intake%20Manifold/RS4_Study_Guide_Injectors.jpg

Yeah, you are missing the fact that RS4 injectors have 13 deg delta and without that the fuel just gets sprayed against the wall.

What I'm really missing is why 980cc better.

980cc are only half-decent because they have a wide 30 deg cone, so at least not all the fuel hits the wall like with narrower injectors.
If these also have a 30 deg cone, then there's no difference.

Well, I thought a lot about how to make a heat shield for the 95mm MAF tube and XL K&N Filter.   Then I realized I had a smaller filter that had been sitting around for a while.   It has the inverse cone on the end, too, so it's still got a lot of surface area.

Maybe it'll fit in the stock box?

Now I've got to figure out some way to seal the gap above the MAF tube where I chopped off the oem MAF flange. 

(http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/5240/0424131751.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/850/0424131751.jpg/)

(http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/5786/95mmmaftube.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/18/95mmmaftube.jpg/)

(http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/9772/airboxbottom.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/802/airboxbottom.jpg/)

(http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/6914/boxtopcut.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/38/boxtopcut.jpg/)

(http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/3410/almostdonedarintake.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/248/almostdonedarintake.jpg/)

(http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/8499/intakefinished.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/521/intakefinished.jpg/)

Got my bolt-in metal valve stems installed for the track.  The manager at Big-O tires has been drag racing for 30+ years.  Great guy, too.   $21.20 installed.

(http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/3964/metalvalvestems.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/14/metalvalvestems.jpg/)

The tuning

I've had the car down the last week to re-torque the head bolts, check for leaks, etc.  Then wasted several days trying to get the ARD V-band bi-pipes to fit.   FYI, they don't work with SRM intercoolers.   I suppose they could, but the amount of cutting needed to the radiator support is just not worth it.   Intercoolers sit too far forward with those pipes.

I got the car back together and started working on mapping KFLDRL.

(http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/1745/throttlecut.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/43/throttlecut.jpg/)

Somehow I swapped the boost reference lines/wastegate lines.  Brilliant.  Must have been when installing the MBC.  I guess it could have been worse.   Thank goodness for throttle cut.

Guess I know what I am doing tomorrow after work.   New APR bi-pipe should be here, too, so it will be time to install this as well:

(http://imageshack.us/a/img29/7877/4barmapsensor.jpg)

Huge thank you to all who made the 5120 hack come together.  

Ahh the ceramic!!! Beautiful.

I figured it was about time for an update.   This setup has about 1100 miles on it now.  It's been running great so far and everything 'cept the 10 minute warm up is great for daily driving.  

Boost PID really kicked my ass for a few weeks, but now I (mostly) have a handle it.  

Current test bin and 3rd gear log from earler today is attached (Do not run this file in your car!)  

Some notes:

Still need to make some fine adjustments to PID, but getting there.

2700 ft above sea level
Ambient Temp - 85*
5/8 of a tank of fuel
2:1 mixture of 91 octane pump and 100 octane Sunoco GT260 = great timing with minimal CFs.

I took a 5 step walk up to RS4 K box ZWOP/ZWOP2 and ZW/2 maps and I am not seeing any noticeable ill affects.   Seems more smooth and responsive.  I returned to S4 values for a day as a control, and the car did not run as well.

I am running out of fuel up top. This particular file is the first attempt with changes at the high end of the maf and fuel correction maps to keep afr's around 12 at 6k+ rpm, but there are side affects from it (afr bounces around; airmass and load are wacky and way too high).   This setup seems to like low 11's:1, but fueling hardware can't keep up.

I haven't had a chance to troubleshoot what the problem is. It's probable the pump is maxed out. I previously tried scaling down the bottom end of mlhfm and increased KRKTE; and also tried increasing the slope of the maf/voltage curve at and above where the issues arise.  Neither made a difference.

Even though the A6 weighs a little more than an S4, it seems like it should pull a lot harder.  The turbos seem like they still have plenty pf flow even at 7500 rpm. Maf sensor in the 95mm housing is hitting 4.5 volts, but acceleration just doesn't feel like it should, especially above 5500 rpm.

So what am I missing?   Water/meth and possibly a fuel pump and/or surge tank should be going in soon.  

All questions, comments, and suggestions are welcome!

Please post original CSVs, NOT EXCEL FILES.

Attached are .csv files: One from yesterday and one prior to making the changes in FKKVS and KFKHFM.   Requested AFR remained the same and is rich (11.25:1) going more rich (< 11:1) at high rpm.  Wideband AFR data from the ZT3 was added from Zeitronix logs.   

I am running the WB signal to the PPD gauge and was afraid that running the signal to bank 1, sensor 2 output may create unwanted signal noise.   I'd hoped I could convert the simulated NB output into usable afr data - its derived from the WB signal, right?  Nada.  Numbers don't coordinate much at all.

As I mentioned in the previous post, I have tried down scaling the low voltage values in MLHFM to run higher KRKTE, and I have tried increasing the slope of the higher voltage values in MLHFM among other things, but at high boost, I still see results similar to the log from 5-30-13 (even to the point where 4.9v = 2500kg/hour or 700 g/s).

I've ordered a fuel pressure sensor, but it won't be here until later in the week.   In the meantime, I lowered boost back down to 21 psi, and bumped LAMFA and BTS high load values back up to 11.7:1.

My best guess right now is the fuel pressure drops momentarily once the turbos spool, then steadily starts dropping again beginning at ~5200 rpm.

What are you logging with? Those logs look odd. ECUxPlot is not picking up the typical variable names it expects to see, nor do I see the header.

Please post the raw output of ME7Logger.


Also, you need to log a few more things... ... requested lambda (LAMFA/BTS) and ps_w at minimum if you are trying to figure out fueling issues.

I see.   

Logging with ME7logger, but I was using the "4 Runs Compare" excel graphs from here.   I will have to make more runs and report back.    Those graphs use the alias instead of variable name which was previously deleted from the csv files.   

I had looked at ECUxPlot, but hadn't really made use of it until tonight - Good God, I've been doing it the hard way. 
 

Couple Runs.  Both in the same log file.   I figured I could split them into two files, but when I did, ECUxPlot would no longer open them.   I need to figure out more of the ins and outs of this tool.  Learn what works and what doesn't.

I changed out the fuel filter and checked the strainer on the pump.  Seems to run better.   Zeitronix logs showed 11.8:1 moving up to about 12.1:1 through the pull.

This will be my file until I get my meth kit installed.

I'll post the graphs in the morning.

I would be careful on this file, you have the potential to melt things if you do a longer pull.
Your EGT is already creeping due to the lean mixture by end of 3rd gear.

Tune your MAF and injectors properly so your actual fuel = requested.

ECUxPlot needs the CSV headers to make head or tail of things.

You dont need to split your files for it.

If you log accel position and gear, you can use the filter to filter out data you dont want, and if you use RPM as the x axis, it will overlay multiple runs in the same log.

Nye: feature request.
Make it so that you can choose which runs to overlay. Like if there's multiple runs, so you have checkboxes which runs you want to display.

Great build, I love the attention to detail. I might just have to start building a 2.7t of my own :p

Ya. I've wanted this feature for a long time too.

Added to my list of things to do

https://github.com/nyetwurk/ecuxplot/issues/15

I could use some help :) hint hint.

yes i know the code is a disaster area ...

Seems I may have missed at least one detail - checked and swapped the FPR today.   Seeing THIS and the broken piece of plastic wedged in there gives me hope that I may have just found the fueling problem.

(http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/628/0608131558a.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/689/0608131558a.jpg/)

Re-thinking your MR2 build?     ;D

Log from last night attached along with the Zeitronix screenshot.   

Quick burst in second gear, off the pedal for a few seconds, then WOT from 3700 rpm in 3rd.   AFR drops to 11:1, peaks at 11.7 (where the white vertical line is at), and ends at 11.5 before lifting off.

(http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/1532/8813run2.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/32/8813run2.jpg/)

That looks really solid!

Nice work.

Does not look that good to me.
Injectors are 100%, request is 11.0, actual is 11.7.

Unfortunately, there is still an underlying fueling problem at higher Boost/RPM, but at least now air/fuel ratios (and torque) are reacting reasonably to changes in compensation in the software.   

I'm still awaiting a fuel pressure sensor to confirm while looking into a new fuel pump set-up.  I would have preferred to use the Bosch 044, but I was told it would not fit in the A6 fuel tank.   



 

Fits fine in the B5 fuel tank, but perhaps the C5 is different then.

Just ordered the Walbro 450 lph pump.   Thanks for the suggestion guys.

For Sale: Deatschwerks 320 lph pump.... used for 3 months   :D

Looks like the DW was doing fine up to ~ 430 whp, using 4 bar base pressure.   It just couldn't keep up much beyond without messing with the tune - which, now looking at their site, is what it's rated to without boosting the voltage.

Walbro 416 arrived today so I spent some time re-working the tune some.  Fueling problem is solved.   Attached is the log of the last run this evening.

The blip around 5000 rpm is cam change-over.

req AFR is going pretty rich up top..

The entire fueling looks like a huge mess.
There is IMO too much CF, and the timing is quite late - would be interesting to see the EGT, though if the turbo has a big hotside, they are probably fine.
Boost control probably needs tons of work, as what I am seeing from WGDC makes me think that you are actually running a MBC in parallel.

There is also no actual AFR in the log I believe?

What do you mean by this? CFs are a bit high, but nothing to worry about. Just pull timing back a few clicks and its fine.


I see nothing that suggests that.

Whoops, It was late, and I posted the wrong log.  Had a little KR enrichment on that one.  It's actually the first time I've ever seen that in a log.

Attached is the correct log.   Actual AFR was flat at 11.3:1.   Zeitronix logs from yesterday got deleted.  I'll just have to get more logs this evening.   

N75 only, MBC was removed in mid-May.
Fueling/MAF are at true values and not underscaled.
In this run, cam advance is at RS4 K-box values.
5/8 tank of 91.
85* F ambient.

 

Yeah, now there is a different log...

1. Linearize boost pid, boost oscillates.
2. Your charge cooling could use some work?
3. 6-15 timing means not too much room left for higher charge pressure either.
4. Your BTS is not really set up correctly, it's active basically all the time, increase the threshold to 800C or so.
5. Try running 0.8 lambda through the pull, your FATS should improve. Watch EGT though.
6. Add timing in the midrange, pull a bit up top.

And my overall impression, and I do not want to take anything away from the effort you put in.
I am not quite feeling this just yet. My RS4 can run the same boost pressure with more timing and cooler IAT's on stock K04's. And they have full boost at 3.5kish.
Your current setup spools 1k later and does not make more power.

I think you need to put w/m injection on it and raise the boost a bit more, so that the big turbo can do it's job. Try revving it higher through the pulls as well.

P.S. Attached log from my car... Ambient was similar to yours that day.

prj: got any logs of what you consider well tuned 91oct cars not running water meth?

I really appreciate the feedback.  Will do.  Damn, that is some serious timing you're running.

I won't be adding much more boost at this elevation.  I am seeing 900-920mb ambient pressure - 3:1 PR!

Meth is going in very soon.  I am just waiting on a few parts.

Speaking of meth, here is what I'll be running:

• Cooling Mist adjustable 200 psi by-pass pump (Shur-Flo)
• 2 x 4 gph DevilsOwn nozzles/90* Holders
• 2 x DevilsOwn (crazy expensive) check valves (I have a pair of solenoids and Hobbs switch, too, if I lose too much pressure w the checkvalves)
• Harris Controls custom pwm controller for 4 bar MAP
• Summit Racing braided SS/teflon lines and fittings
• Tapped off the wiper reservoir

(http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/9421/wbxs.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/842/wbxs.jpg/)

I would fit an Aquamist HFS-3, because that devilsown stuff has no failsafe.
If something happens then your motor can easily go the way of the dodo.
You can try to compensate with KFLAMKRL, but I would not always count on it to save you.

The elevation explains things. I am basically at sea level.
My turbos would not be able to hold this amount of boost at elevation.


No one in their right mind here runs 91 oct (95 RON) on a tuned car ever.

I spent some time this week making my SS lines and pump mounts for the meth kit which will go in this weekend.

Before it goes in, I wanted to know for sure what my fuel system is capable of flowing at max capacity.  I also wanted to see how much knock resistance some ethanol blends would add to the equation.   

PRJ was pointing out meth failsafes, so after giving it some thought: What better fail-safe is there than to have a knock-resistant base fuel.    Can it work this way?   

If my fuel system could support X amount of power with E85, then adding water/meth and running E75 or so would be a pretty good failsafe if the anti-knock properties of E75 or E50, etc are known.   I'm also looking into picking up some Bosch Motorsport 970cc dual cone injectors, but anyway, back to today.

So.... I added 8 gallons of E85 to the 5 or so gallons of 91 octane (E10) in my fuel tank.

I calculated that the Walbro 416 would supply plenty of fuel at pressure, but I would max the injectors at 7:1 afr with 400 g/s airmass @ 7000 rpm.

Before filling up, I loaded Phila's map switching file with a couple different calculated KRKTEs in maps 2 and 3.  Filled up, started the car, and waited for the AFR gauge to move up to 17:1, then switched maps.   Worked out perfect.   

It then hit me that ME7 logger wouldn't connect with that file easily.  I took a few partial pulls to see if AFR was reacting and falling into the correct range, then flashed a conservative mid-boost E80-ish file.   I figured I could increase boost and timing slowly and see where I end up before starting to go lean in either bank.

Fast forward 3 hours.

Ambient Temp: 93* F
Ambient Pressure: 924mb
Altitude: 2700 ft
Weight: My brother (190), Me (210), 12 gallons of fuel (78), and the A6 (3759) = 4237 lbs or 1922 Kilos
RPM/MPH: 70.1
Boost: 23 PSI @ 4000 RPM

Wow, after 3 hours and 3 revisions, I gotta say:  Ethanol is the shizzzz.  Virtually no knock.   Amazing, and a dollar cheeper than sheit 91.

• Check out that torque curve from 3000 rpm
• Yeah, I have to re-work Boost PID... again
• Log file is attached for full analysis

(http://imageshack.us/a/img849/8378/l5zy.jpg)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img402/449/y8yw.jpg)

Does that FATS say 3.41? On E80?

I think it says 3.49.....

I couldn't resist taking one more run though.  15 degrees cooler, no passenger, 3/4 tank 0f E80.

3.23 FATST (For Advancement of the Two Seven Turbo, since its an A6)

Edited to attach CSV at the bottom.

(http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/8751/k54j.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/266/k54j.jpg/)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img577/3356/foba.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/577/foba.jpg/)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img837/5964/b9vx.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/837/b9vx.png/)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img811/9281/8jy.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/811/8jy.png/)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img12/7734/n8s.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/12/n8s.png/)

If you run E85 then you do not need water/meth.

Yeah, I've been thinking about it all day.   Given the benefits, I'm really leaning toward selling off the meth kit and picking up the fueling parts required to run E85 at full boost.

After spending a few days messing around with E85, it's now clear why everyone makes the switch. 

Tested the stuff coming out of the pump locally.   That stuff smells horrid - like the cheapest whiskey mixed with diesel.

Picked up the very latest and greatest high tech tester, too.   50ml water, 100 ml E85.   Good to know its full strength.

(http://imageshack.us/a/img441/350/fuzr.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/441/fuzr.jpg/)

Installed new 980cc Bosch EV14s today.   Billet fuel rails and adjustable fpr should arrive next week, but in the mean time, I took a couple of runs to see what's up.   

I also thought it'd be interesting to try MBC only boost control for the week...   Not really diggin the results.

(http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/4074/ybae.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/824/ybae.jpg/)

Last Log on Walbro 450 lph pump with stock rails, fuel lines, and FPR.  Bosch 980cc Injectors.

MBC only so I could do several runs back to back while inching up boost.  This last run went slightly lean around 5400 and ended up about 12.5 afr (gas scale).   

EDIT: Meant to also point out that at this power level on E85, that the passenger side bank starts to run much leaner than the driver side.  450-475 whp seems to be the safe limit on this fueling setup.   

Not bad having 375 wtq got from 3500-7000 rpm

Would just like to say well done and thanks for such great information posting. I am just about to swap a 2.7T Allroad K04 fitted motor in to B5.5 Passat and had planned on E85 map switching also. I do happen to have a 3.0L crank sitting for "when" the engine needs a refresh and also had planned larger turbos at that point.

Your thread has helped me understand the tuning side a lot more.  ;D