NefMoto

After many moons I finally have my supercharger kit for my car, the kit is 2nd hand and was shipped to me so I dont have the tune that came with the kit new.

I would appreciate any input on what I would need to do tuning wise to safely run the setup?

My initial ideas are

adjust TEMIN, KRKTE, TVUB for the injectors
increase KFMLDMX for more airflow
reduce KFZW/2

then I will play with fueling once I am able to log.

I'd add some fuel via LAMFA before running, it. The file I've looked at is set @ 1. Figure lower it under high load/rpm to prevent from going lean.

OK

fix LAMFA to keep things nice and rich.

anything else guys?

anyone know what I would need to do to remove the manifold flaps?

There are maps that govern changeover. I have no idea what they look like, but I'd love to see an example.

Search the FR for sumode.

talking about these?

B_SUMOD       Condition flag: intake manifold changeover sumode = 1
B_SUMOD2     Condition flag: intake manifold changeover sumode = 2
B_SUMOD3     Condition flag: intake manifold changeover sumode = 3

That's them.

now to figure out what they mean  ???

My understnading is that they are the conditions that dictate when the intake changeover occurs. I would love to see an example, I'm sure I could find it in my file, I just have no idea where to go from here.

They are in the audi v6 ols floating around here, I think they start at sumode0 18E38 in my file.

v6 ols, as in 2.7t? I was hoping for something that actually has variable runners.

no the NA v6

What dark magic is that, and why was I not made aware of its presence?

if you could help me out figuring out howto disable the flaps I would be most grateful  ;D

You got it. Loading it now.

keine Bestromung der Saugrohrklappen=no energizing of the intake manifold flaps

Set to 0 in that OLS, I'd imagine setting it to 1 would disable?

Yup its 0.00 in my file as well, I will give it a bash once I am ready to flash and let you know..... Thanks for the help!

Was your map structure/layout similar to the OLS?

Not 100% in the v6 file sumode0 starts after KFSU2 which was fairly easy to find 12x8

(http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd202/airtite/sumode_zps2073d078.png)

so I have

sumode0 at 18E38
sumode1 at 18E39
sumode2 at 18E3A
sumode3 at 18E3B

From my native German friend :)

keine Bestromung von Klappe 1, Bestromung von Klappe 2
 
No flow of flap 1 (likely the flaps in the variable intake?) 1, FLOW of flap 2
 
keine Bestromung der Saugrohrklappen
 
No flow of the intake pipe flaps
 
Bestromung von Klappe 1, keine Bestromung von Klappe 2
 
FLOW of flap 1, NO FLOW of flap 2
 
Bestromung von Klappe 1 und Klappe 2
 
FLOW of flap 1 AND flap 2

ok you lost me now  ???

Translation of the sumode related maps from that OLS.

Have a look at this

(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k36/cerips/Audi%20V8/intakechangeover40v.jpg)

My interest in finding them lies in operating the a6 flaps in 2 stages instead of 1 when using the s6/s8 file. I have found them (finally), and am comparing them to their a6 counterparts.

Airtite wants to disable them :)

As for the photo, I posted that a while back. Thanks for renewing my interest in this airtite, and for the OLS. If you need any help with your file, just ask.

my pleasure

supercharger installed last night and running on stock injectors (the harness connectors for the injectors arent here) running on my NA tuned file... logs attached. Anyone see anything I should be concerned about CFs are in the single digits, afr leans out slightly at the higher rpm, egts dont go above 810 iats max out at 42degreeC.

Airtite:

Can you post a screenshot of KFWDKSMX and KFWDKMSN? I'm positive I have the right addresses, equations, and axis, but I'm curious as to why SMX is FF'd (100 percent) whereas the 2.7 files aren't.

(http://i48.tinypic.com/2m4t64h.jpg)

What am I missing here? Is the 4.2 really limited to 70 percent throttle?

(http://i45.tinypic.com/2nq4ab4.jpg)

The second graph is the 2.7t 551R box allroad file. Both are stock, and I'm fairly certain My data is correct.

Airtite-what does your map look like?

I havent defined it yet in my file, need to find it.

I hijacked your thread in case you hadn't noticed.

Sorry. I figured it was 4.2 tuning, and it might also interest you :)

no problem just having a little bit of a hard time finding it in my file what address is it at in yours?

does anyone know where the Intake Temp Sensor is on these V8s?

Hi

Please could someone have a look at these logs, when looking at lambda desired vs actual I am seeing lambda of 0.85 more or less until it goes to 0.95 at redline. So 0.85 x 14.7 = 12.5 afr which I am happy with BUT when I use ecuXplot to calc AFR its showing AFR of 18+!!! Am I calculating it wrong or is there something in the AFR calc in ecuXplot?

not much interest in my supercharger build then  ???

As long as you  have MAF scaling, # of cyls, and injector size right, there isn't much that can go wrong.

Calc AFR is pretty useless though. I only use it to calibrate MAF scaling.

Thanks Nyet, did you have a look at the logs I attached? can you see anything that I should be worried about?

please could someone assist in finding the following maps in this file

temin
tvub
krkte

KRKTE 0x1FB68
TVUB 0x13FF4, axis @ 13FEF

No. but you might want to pull a bit of timing, especially at low rpm.

Also, might want to flatten BTS a bit (if that is why you are going rich up top)

This may be stupid, but what enables BTS on vehicles without EGT sensors?

Calculated EGT, in the case of the b5s4 (real EGTs on the s4 are narrow band).

No clue about b6/b7.

I ask because I see BTS in many naturally aspirated files which most assuredly don't have EGT sensors.

I assume its calculated EGT because I can log EGT temp on my car.

thanks dillenger

TEMIN 1539E ?

anyone able to assist with krkte, temin, tvub values for the following injectors (my math sucks)

(http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd202/airtite/0280155968cs_zps3134ae0a.jpg) (http://s226.photobucket.com/user/airtite/media/0280155968cs_zps3134ae0a.jpg.html)

4bar fpr

KRKTE = 50.2624*(Liters/Cylinder)/(operating flow rate in cc/min * .684 constant )

4.2=4163cc/6=693.3333cc=.6933l/cylinder

50.2624*.6933=34.8469

440cc injectors @ 4 bar flow 508cc (4/3=1.333333. 1.333333sqrt=1.1547, 1.1547*440cc=508cc)

508*.684=347.5187

34.8469/347.5187=.1003

KRKTE=.1003 given those injectors at that pressure. As fro TVUB, use the latency values shown in the datasheet to start. Just interpolate to get the correct values for the voltages in the axis.

I appreciate that thank you!

Brush up on your math :)

Fueling should be the easy part.

OK KRKTE and TVUB changed, on my 1.8T fuel trim info was under block 32 in VCDS, under block 32 for the S4 I have 4 lambda values is this STFT/LTFT for each bank? The car smells very rich and has a slight stumble under acceleration.

why have you got 6 here? surely it should be 8? 8 cylinder?

Yep, forgot it was a v8. lol.

I'm pretty used to working with the v6 if you couldn't tell. My apologies.

KRKTE .07526

KVUB 1AB0D?

ok still looking for the address for KVB if anyone can assist.

attached log from a run last night, I was trying to dial in my WMI and it looks like in this last run it was actually spraying which is why the afr started going wacked after 4000RPM I think I might have a nozzle that is too big in there at the moment.

A couple of questions

1. I seem to have an issue when I go WOT throttle the car seems to jerk for a second and then revs fine, it must be fuelilng related because before I changed the injectors it didnt do that.
2. in the ecuxplot load actual vs requested below, the actual load was higher than requested so I adjust KFMIRL to be more inline with what actual load was and changed the axis of IOP to match the changes I did to IRL, then logged again but it did the oppposite and now requested seems even lower than what is was before, what am I doing wrong?


afr no WMI

(http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd202/airtite/8E0910560D_20130509_213444_afr_noWMI_zpsaf27495e.png) (http://s226.photobucket.com/user/airtite/media/8E0910560D_20130509_213444_afr_noWMI_zpsaf27495e.png.html)

afr WMI

(http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd202/airtite/8E0910560D_20130509_213444_afr_WMI_zps52be1922.png) (http://s226.photobucket.com/user/airtite/media/8E0910560D_20130509_213444_afr_WMI_zps52be1922.png.html)

load pre changes to IRL/IOP

(http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd202/airtite/8E0910560D_20130509_213444_load_no_WMI_zps0490a1e7.png) (http://s226.photobucket.com/user/airtite/media/8E0910560D_20130509_213444_load_no_WMI_zps0490a1e7.png.html)

load after changes to IRL/IOP

(http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd202/airtite/8E0910560D_20130509_213444_load_WMI_zps3aa98ec3.png) (http://s226.photobucket.com/user/airtite/media/8E0910560D_20130509_213444_load_WMI_zps3aa98ec3.png.html)

What you are doing wrong? Not realizing how req load gets calculated on a N/A motor.
Those spikes are probably throttle cut.

thanks for the reply......... so how does req load get calculated on a NA motor. In the logs accelerator pedal position vs thottle plate angle are both 100% so I dont think its throttle cut.

They appear to be torque intervention.... take a look at timing..

(http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd202/airtite/8E0910560D_20130509_221755_timing_zps462590a1.png) (http://s226.photobucket.com/user/airtite/media/8E0910560D_20130509_221755_timing_zps462590a1.png.html)

Notice the dips in actual timing that DO NOT correlate with knock correction!

Knock retard is fairly stable... (although you are definitely requesting too much timing down low).

You'll have to log the various torque intervention variables to see what is causing the timing dips.

thanks nyet, I was under the impression that a CF of -6 is still safe though? Could you give me a list of the torque intervention variables to add to my logging?

prj pointed me to the alpha FR regarding the requested vs actual load issue I had a quick look but I couldnt see anything that made any sense to me, you wouldnt know which maps I would need to look at to bring requested up to what actual load is doing? I modified IRL to match what actual load was doing and it seems to have had the opposite effect instead of matching actual its even lower?

Tuning a N/A with boost on ME7 is not a stroll in the park, you do need to understand how the ECU works.
Even if I told you exactly what map you have to change, you'd still have the car behaving very weird, because of other variables.

Have a look and understanding where requested load comes from, follow the schematics all the way, it really is not that that difficult compared to some other things found in the FR, and you certainly must understand it to get anywhere with this.

the thing is with the stock injectors the car was behaving fine and had no issues with stumbling etc it would only start leaning out after 5500rpm where the stock injectors just couldnt keep up so I dont quite understand why it now has become so complex, the supercharger is only a 7psi pulley so its not like the boost levels are so high, I could probably get away with leaving the load requested vs actual not matching and just spend a bit of time figuring out why with the new injectors I am getting the slight stumble when going WOT. Anyway I am sure I will be able to get some help from someone just feels like lately I am not getting much input from this forum which is such a pity because when I first joined here the whole attitude was different.

ok so I am not an engineer and dont know how to read schematics, from the FR there are 2 schematics that reference rlsol_w which is requested load, now to show how little I know I would assume that if the result is rlsol_w it would be to the right hand side end of the drawing? If someone could just assist in explaining how to read this one which prj says isnt to difficult then i would learn and be able to do this myself in the future (I am not lazy, just dont know how).


(http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd202/airtite/rlsol_w_schematic_1_zpsd70684e7.png) (http://s226.photobucket.com/user/airtite/media/rlsol_w_schematic_1_zpsd70684e7.png.html)

(http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd202/airtite/rlsol_w_schematic_2_zps26b1e95a.png) (http://s226.photobucket.com/user/airtite/media/rlsol_w_schematic_2_zps26b1e95a.png.html)

Yes.

ok so then there arent any diagrams with rlsol_w at the far right of the diagram and these 2 diagrams that do reference rlsol_w start with rlsol_w so how do I figure out where rlsol_w comes from if it is the start  ???

You'll get there but perhaps not as quick as you thought you would.
It would have been much better for you to start with an FI ecu on another car. As prj said FI on a NA ecu is not plain simple standard tuning and when you've yet to learn following the FR diagrams it is difficult.
I don't think it's fair to blame the forum attitude when you have started a project that you might not have enough skill to follow through yet.

thanks for the input but if you look back I have already tuned a 1.8t k04 hybrid me7 and a GTI med9 k04 hybrid so this wasnt my "start"

Look at %MDFUE

rlsol really isn't your problem though.

Is it lean when stumbling?

 :) thank you...... the only reason I was looking at rlsol was because actual load was quite a bit higher than requested. So I shouldnt really worry about that then?

I will try and log more so I can see, if you look at the afr logs posted on the previous page it does look like it may be lean as I go WOT but then on the next log with the WMI enabled it was rich as I went WOT and I cant remember now if it stumbled on that run or not. I will do some more logging a little later tonight and see.

Another rthing I noticed is that with the stock injectors I was actually getting more airflow 375gs and now with the 440cc injectors the airflow has dropped back to 350gs which is what it was when I was running the 4psi pulley, so something isnt right.

appreciate the help!

Also, I don't think there are many here that can help anyway... I know I can't. I have no idea how to do FI on an NA ecu :/

ok so here is the diagram from MDFUE and rlsol_w is the result (not sure why my search didnt pick that up) but it still points to KFMIRL right?

(http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd202/airtite/mdfue_schematic_1_zpsbd905222.png) (http://s226.photobucket.com/user/airtite/media/mdfue_schematic_1_zpsbd905222.png.html)

and the description

(http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd202/airtite/mdfue_schematic_2_zps82cef7da.png) (http://s226.photobucket.com/user/airtite/media/mdfue_schematic_2_zps82cef7da.png.html)

You'll note that SY_TURBO = 0, which means instead of rl_max capping IRL, the cap is 100.

So then no point in making IRL values higher than 100 because its HARD capped at 100 anyway?

Yep. Presumably you might have to do so assembly hacking to fix that. Might want to look around for more references to SY_turbo.

I have no idea if the results will work. I do not know what "pro" tuners have done on the SC kits. But if history is a guide, I'm sure they're all huge hack jobs since they have a market to rush into headlong.

Well the PRO tune from the manufacturer for the kit doesnt do anything special and the tune is actually very basic.

Which kit do you have? I thought you had paired stuff together yourself.

I started out on that path but after a couple of frakenstein manifolds I came across a really good deal on a PES g4 that is installed and running. I have now upgraded to the 7psi pulley and have installed 440cc bosch injectors and WMI as well..

There is a local guy to me named Brian who has one of these but a wagon, I know he is running a pro maf, and 6??cc injectors he has a custom tune done by a big name tuner. Would you like me to get any details from him? I know the first tune ran lean and burned up the motor. Which is why he had it redone. I would be happy I did not get the software with it ;)

digging this back up, I had the supercharger off the car for awhile to have the rotor pack and snout rebuilt. Its back on my bench at home and I will probably put it back on this afternoon or over the weekend.

I was having a chat to one of the other members about my recent issue http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=6069.0title= which has been fixed now and he mentioned being able to point me in the direction of "rlsol_w cap" which I was discussing one page back of this thread. I assume "rlsol_w cap" is what I was looking for that was capping load at 100 because its a NA car?

The only map I can find in one of the damos I have that references rlsol_w in MDFUE is CWRLAPPL "Codewort Vorgabe rlsol_w während Applikationsphase" so my question is am I looking in the right place?

No, it's hardcoded

.

ie a system constant namely SY_TURBO

Any update? ;)

I've been silently following along on your build  ;D

I couldnt figure out the tvub that you're using. I have the same injectors on my 1.8t, running the stock tvub for now (the specsheet seems to be way off).
Could you tell me what tvub youre using currently.

No, nobody has source code. DIY tuning a NA ecu for FI is not doable. Period.

The 4.2 is an utterly useless motor from an aftermarket tuning perspective.

load cap can be removed

I wouldn't say it's undoable. Just think of it like an AEB engine. Those work without a MAP sensor.

Basically, you need to:
- rescale your IOP/IRL
- rescale your injector constants and pulsewidth
- rescale your MAF
- adjust your ignition timing

It's not simple and it'll take a lot of trial and error, but I see no reason why it can't be done. You just need to re-scale everything so the engine meters enough fuel for the airmass taken in as well as keeping your measured load under the requested load.

Or am I missing something?

Could you help me out with this? It´s actually a thing I do not really understand. Do you change SY-Turbo or Max rl 100%?

I´m a little bit confused, because the description says it is not restricted on NA. But in shematic it is.

My previous assumption is that its in reality unrestricted because you could reach even on NA engines more then 100% load, if you make good filling and bosch software is mostly designed for all possible ways.

Maybe the 100% representing 100% of the max possible rl and not 100% rl ?


Edit: Okay, thinking about it helps, I think I got it now, will test it in few days

Interesting, could you tell which software number is loaded to WinOLS on your screenshot?