NefMoto

Technical => Tuning => Topic started by: 16g-95gsc on April 14, 2013, 03:41:07 PM



Title: Help me understand how ME7 responds to throttle input
Post by: 16g-95gsc on April 14, 2013, 03:41:07 PM
I have been reading for quite a while, trying to comprehend how ME7 responds to the driver's throttle input and wanted to see if someone can help me make sense of what is going on. 

When at part throttle I can partially increase throttle input to say 30%, only to then hold the pedal constant, and subsequently watch ECU requested throttle output drop to say 15% shortly thereafter (with a corresponding "feel" to the car and rpm drop while maintaining a constant cruise). This is always something that has bothered me about this car, is it makes the driving experience even more less coupled to the engine output.  From my understanding it is some sort of requested torque response to make the torque output of the stock S4 constant/smooth in stock form.

I would like to tune the system to allow for a more direct throttle response at part throttle.  However, as much as I am trying to read and understand what may be going on, I can't come to a solution of how to solve this issue. 


Title: Re: Help me understand how ME7 responds to throttle input
Post by: catbed on April 14, 2013, 05:35:51 PM
I have been reading for quite a while, trying to comprehend how ME7 responds to the driver's throttle input and wanted to see if someone can help me make sense of what is going on.  

When at part throttle I can partially increase throttle input to say 30%, only to then hold the pedal constant, and subsequently watch ECU requested throttle output drop to say 15% shortly thereafter (with a corresponding "feel" to the car and rpm drop while maintaining a constant cruise). This is always something that has bothered me about this car, is it makes the driving experience even more less coupled to the engine output.  From my understanding it is some sort of requested torque response to make the torque output of the stock S4 constant/smooth in stock form.

I would like to tune the system to allow for a more direct throttle response at part throttle.  However, as much as I am trying to read and understand what may be going on, I can't come to a solution of how to solve this issue.  

When you press down on the pedal, that changes how much TORQUE is requested, since ME7 is a torque based control system. It can change how much torque is produced by air charge(slow path) and ignition angle(fast path), and also the throttle plate.

Read TTQS's "tutorial" on tuning. It provides a brilliant explanation of the control system in ME7, IMO.

EDIT: what phila_dot said. I was getting mixed up with torque intervention.


Title: Re: Help me understand how ME7 responds to throttle input
Post by: phila_dot on April 14, 2013, 06:13:53 PM
Torque request for air charge gets translated to desired load by KFMIRL.

Ignition angle from torque model is strictly for intervention.


Title: Re: Help me understand how ME7 responds to throttle input
Post by: 16g-95gsc on April 15, 2013, 05:34:38 AM
I have read every tutorial that I have come across, and yet it just still isn't sinking in.  Let's take my original example and see if we can help me understand it by perhaps explaining what is taking place:

I am driving at a constant 30mph in a tiptronic S4.  If I slightly press on the throttle, increasing to say 30%, the engine will rev slightly and the car will speed up.  However, perhaps one second later the engine's throttle actuator will drop to say 15% throttle for the same driver throttle input.  Engine rpm will subsequently drop and there will be an equal drop in power.  Essentially the throttle will spike and then drop down.  It causes the throttle to feel extremely numb and inconsistent to requested torque changes.  However, I don't quite understand what is influencing this drop and reducing engine throttle actuation.


Title: Re: Help me understand how ME7 responds to throttle input
Post by: nyet on April 15, 2013, 10:44:19 AM
There is no reason for the throttle to close in the situation you describe.

Sounds like a torque converter/tcu problem, not an ECU problem (if the ECU is stock).


Title: Re: Help me understand how ME7 responds to throttle input
Post by: phila_dot on April 15, 2013, 08:17:41 PM
Torque model turns torque request to desired load for load realization.

Easy test would be logging desired load, if it remains consistent while the symptoms you describe occur, then you will want to investigate load realization (FUEREG, FUEDK). If not, then you can backtrack through the torque model (MDFUE, MDKOL, MDFAW).