NefMoto

Technical => Tuning => Topic started by: nyet on August 08, 2013, 10:39:04 AM



Title: Noob question: smog test says HC and CO is through the roof
Post by: nyet on August 08, 2013, 10:39:04 AM
I assume my cats are basically dead (full awe twin dp/exhaust)

Idle trims are <1%

Car was driven around extensively before it got put on the sniffer.

No DTCs, passes readiness. Rear O2s installed but DTCs coded out. stock ESKONF

Is there something i can do in the tune temporarily to get it to pass?

Keep in mind CA recently lowered HC and CO allowed levels by quite a bit.


Title: Re: Noob question: smog test says HC and CO is through the roof
Post by: hipeka on August 08, 2013, 11:32:44 AM
I assume my cats are basically dead (full awe twin dp/exhaust)

Idle trims are <1%

Car was driven around extensively before it got put on the sniffer.

No DTCs, passes readiness. Rear O2s installed but DTCs coded out. stock ESKONF

Is there something i can do in the tune temporarily to get it to pass?

Keep in mind CA recently lowered HC and CO allowed levels by quite a bit.

Can you post exact values from that test?


Title: Re: Noob question: smog test says HC and CO is through the roof
Post by: nyet on August 08, 2013, 11:51:31 AM
HC was around 500, CO 1.5


Title: Re: Noob question: smog test says HC and CO is through the roof
Post by: hipeka on August 08, 2013, 12:14:22 PM
HC was around 500, CO 1.5

I have work about five years at car inspector here in Finland and i have seen cars without cat giving reading like HC 100ppm and CO around 0,5%.

So i think its not necessarily cat issue.

Are you using EV14's?


Title: Re: Noob question: smog test says HC and CO is through the roof
Post by: nyet on August 08, 2013, 12:17:59 PM
yes, ev14.

i do have idle torque reserve a bit higher than stock.


Title: Re: Noob question: smog test says HC and CO is through the roof
Post by: hipeka on August 08, 2013, 12:44:07 PM
yes, ev14.

i do have idle torque reserve a bit higher than stock.

Trims dont tell the whole truth. I struggle one year with mpg issue with 550cc ev14. Then i deside to sell that car and change stock injectors back. MPG reading go from 26mpg (ev14) to 33mpg (stock injectors).

So there must be something in tuning those injectors that I don't understand.

Also emission readings go way lower with stock injectors. Even if i was under our limits with EV14.

BTW. Are you using CWKONABG=0


Title: Re: Noob question: smog test says HC and CO is through the roof
Post by: nyet on August 08, 2013, 12:58:02 PM
stock CWKONABG


Title: Re: Noob question: smog test says HC and CO is through the roof
Post by: userpike on August 08, 2013, 01:47:41 PM
 do you think this could be a wall film issue?


Title: Re: Noob question: smog test says HC and CO is through the roof
Post by: nyet on August 08, 2013, 03:51:06 PM
Certainly might be.. any suggestions?


Title: Re: Noob question: smog test says HC and CO is through the roof
Post by: Jason on August 08, 2013, 09:34:40 PM
I think I have several sets of stock injectors if it ever came down to having to swap stock injectors back in...

One thing I have been thinking about recently is the fact that the fuel cut on decel is awful on these cars - so a rich WOT run loads up the cat with fuel and then on decel the computer completely cuts fuel and the engine pumps air through the cat which throws the internal temperature of the cat through the roof.  That's not easy on the cats...

Edit:  idle torque reserve likely only affects NOx if I remember right.


Title: Re: Noob question: smog test says HC and CO is through the roof
Post by: ddillenger on August 08, 2013, 09:56:53 PM

One thing I have been thinking about recently is the fact that the fuel cut on decel is awful on these cars - so a rich WOT run loads up the cat with fuel and then on decel the computer completely cuts fuel and the engine pumps air through the cat which throws the internal temperature of the cat through the roof.  That's not easy on the cats...


KFVAKL and KFBAKL. This is why they exist.


Title: Re: Noob question: smog test says HC and CO is through the roof
Post by: Jason on August 08, 2013, 10:05:32 PM
FKVAKL and FKBAKL. This is why they exist.

Am I missing something or are they not defined in the FR?


Title: Re: Noob question: smog test says HC and CO is through the roof
Post by: ddillenger on August 08, 2013, 10:45:14 PM
Sorry, KF, not FK. I had a touch of dislexia :P

KFBAKL is acceleration enrichment factor
KFVAKL is deceleration enrichment factor

In the M-box:

KFBAKL_0_A and KFBAKL_1_A. Same goes for KFVAKL_0_A and KFVAKL_1_A.

Adresses (in order of above)

0x19021, 0x19060, 0x1909F, 0x190DE

9(0x1832C, temp, factor -48.000000+X*0.750000) x7 (0x1820F rpm factor 40*X)

Log your trims, you'll see what you must do.


Title: Re: Noob question: smog test says HC and CO is through the roof
Post by: Jason on August 08, 2013, 10:54:52 PM
Well, I know what I'm playing with this weekend.  Thanks :D


Title: Re: Noob question: smog test says HC and CO is through the roof
Post by: ddillenger on August 08, 2013, 11:01:19 PM
No problem. Post your results!

I started out multiplying both tables by 1.5, logged, adjusted, logged, adjusted. I can tell you I no longer have large corrections coming off the throttle after a WOT run.

This is in the Bosch EV14 injector Migration thread as well. If you need addresses other than the M-box, just ask. I have them defined in pretty much everything I've looked at :)


Title: Re: Noob question: smog test says HC and CO is through the roof
Post by: nyet on August 08, 2013, 11:07:59 PM
hay you bastards, can we stay on topic :P


Title: Re: Noob question: smog test says HC and CO is through the roof
Post by: phila_dot on August 09, 2013, 07:54:49 AM
KFVAKL and KFBAKL. This is why they exist.

Not really. He is describing cat clear out.

Those are transient compensation tables to maintain target lambda during load changes.

Nye, do you have a general idea of the sniff procedure in Cali?


Title: Re: Noob question: smog test says HC and CO is through the roof
Post by: nyet on August 09, 2013, 08:54:15 AM
Nye, do you have a general idea of the sniff procedure in Cali?

yea.

for AWD cars just need idle sniffer, and 2000 rpm sniffer, pass readiness, no dtcs

idle is usually hardest to pass; all of my readings are in line except HC and CO.


Title: Re: Noob question: smog test says HC and CO is through the roof
Post by: Jason on August 09, 2013, 09:01:20 AM
Two speed idle - there was talk of AWD dynos for an ASM, but I don't think it was cost effective from a revenue generation and jobs creation perspective.

Page 7 here describes it... I would copy/paste but it's a "protected" pdf.

The 2500rpm test is first and 30 seconds long, then it's transitioned to the idle test.  If it fails there's an "additional conditioning procedure" and then they run a second chance test.

from:  http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/80_BARResources/05_Legislative/RegulatoryActions/Smog%20Check%20Manual%20w-diesel%208-09%20V3.pdf



Nye, stupid question, but are you running colder plugs than stock for the test?


Title: Re: Noob question: smog test says HC and CO is through the roof
Post by: nyet on August 09, 2013, 09:06:37 AM
Good question. I have honestly no idea; i've changed plugs so often i can't recall.. and these have been in there for a while.

but i think they very will might be cold plugs.


Title: Re: Noob question: smog test says HC and CO is through the roof
Post by: Jason on August 09, 2013, 09:31:03 AM
If you're in a pass or don't pay scenario and have the time I'd say throw some stock heat range copper plugs in it.


Title: Re: Noob question: smog test says HC and CO is through the roof
Post by: silentbob on August 09, 2013, 11:44:50 AM
I guess reinstalling the secondary sensors is not an option?

Do you have access to an exhaust gas analyser? Maybe you could play a bit with USR and see if it helps ???  


Title: Re: Noob question: smog test says HC and CO is through the roof
Post by: nyet on August 09, 2013, 12:10:27 PM
They are installed but coded out via CDKAT/CWDLSAHK

perhaps they are bad? would be trivial to replace, i have them on disconnects.


Title: Re: Noob question: smog test says HC and CO is through the roof
Post by: silentbob on August 09, 2013, 12:24:05 PM
So you have your trim control working?


Title: Re: Noob question: smog test says HC and CO is through the roof
Post by: jibberjive on August 10, 2013, 02:38:53 AM
Throw in some E85 and tune it lean and hot temporarily to pass the test?  Though E85 doesn't affect HC and CO as much as NOx, it still helps quite a bit (especially if tuned).


Title: Re: Noob question: smog test says HC and CO is through the roof
Post by: Jason on August 10, 2013, 06:09:12 AM
I don't think they can test for NOx with the two speed idle test...


Title: Re: Noob question: smog test says HC and CO is through the roof
Post by: jibberjive on August 10, 2013, 07:51:20 AM
It still helps with HC and CO.


Title: Re: Noob question: smog test says HC and CO is through the roof
Post by: savages4 on August 10, 2013, 02:00:12 PM
With no other mods to fueling besides KRKTE and TVUB, I passed smog on ev14s with coded out rear oxygen sensors via EKSONF and s4wiki modifications.  I have piggy pipes with just primary cats, and the thing passed really clean barely registered any numbers on anything.  This was about a month ago in san diego. 


Title: Re: Noob question: smog test says HC and CO is through the roof
Post by: nyet on August 28, 2013, 05:40:21 PM
Problem solved by raising RPM to 890, raising idle torque reserve, and underscaling MAF a bit less.

went from 170HC to 50HC

the 500 reading was from a malfunctioning sniffer.


Title: Re: Noob question: smog test says HC and CO is through the roof
Post by: RaraK on August 28, 2013, 08:35:10 PM
Problem solved by raising RPM to 890, raising idle torque reserve, and underscaling MAF a bit less.

went from 170HC to 50HC

the 500 reading was from a malfunctioning sniffer.

Damn i was gonna tell you cheat....e85  mix about 30 % in always would pass sniffer without cats in PA.  Also idle timing can effect he readings a smidge.


Title: Re: Noob question: smog test says HC and CO is through the roof
Post by: nyet on August 28, 2013, 10:36:51 PM
Damn i was gonna tell you cheat....e85  mix about 30 % in always would pass sniffer without cats in PA.  Also idle timing can effect he readings a smidge.

yea that was my fallback, but e85 is hard to get in my area. Hour drive, minimum.


Title: Re: Noob question: smog test says HC and CO is through the roof
Post by: jibberjive on August 29, 2013, 10:46:53 PM
Damn i was gonna tell you cheat....e85  mix about 30 % in always would pass sniffer without cats in PA.  Also idle timing can effect he readings a smidge.
That was my trick as well for a 1990 Ford Rapevan I had.  It failed the sniffer, took it to the gas station to get 30% or so of E85, ran the balls off of it to keep it hot just before pulling up and went straight to the sniffer. Passed with no other modifications ;D