NefMoto

What maps need to be modified to convert a returnless 1.8T ECU to one the uses a manifold pressure signal fpr return system?

ME7

Thanks,
Rey

I was talking to a guy that just did this, he didnt change a thing in his tuning, just added the b5 return system to a b6 returnless.  works fine so he says.

I was going to go this route with my own B6, but that wont be until summer, so i cannot help you one that right now.

Calculation of the correction for returnless fuel systems:
FRLFSDP = V pdr evmes/(pdr akt+(pu-ps))
Wherein pdr evmes = absolute pressure in the fuel circulation upstream of the injection valve at measuring Qstat
(3000 hPa)
pdr akt = actuell system pressure in fuel circulation
pu = ambient pressure
ps = intake manifold pressure
At systems with reference pressure at intake manifold pu - ps = 0.
The correction for the complete characteristic a this one is:
FRLFSDP = V pdr evmes/pdr akt
For a fuel pressure of 3000 hPa the result for FRLFSDP is:
Wherein dpus = pu - ps
Induction engine 3000 hPa /3500 hPa Turbo engine:
dpus [hPa] FRLFSDP dpus [hPa] FRLFSDP
0 1.0 1.0 -1200 1.299 pBoostPress = 1800 hPa, pu = 600 hPa
100 0.9837 0.9860 -1000 1.2247
200 0.9682 0.9726 -800 1.1678
300 0.9535 0.9597 -600 1.1180
400 0.9393 0.9473 -400 1.0742
500 0.9258 0.9354 -200 1.0351
600 0.9129 0.9240 0 1.0
700 0.9005 0.9129 200 0.9682
800 0.8885 0.9022 400 0.9393
600 0.9129
800 0.8885
There are 11 interpolation points implemented for induction and turbo engine.
during application air charge measuring, the modelled intake manifold pressure is not correct.
At returnless fuel systems the intake manifold pressure can be set by
the application system VS100 with parameter PSAPES. Therefore bit 0 at CWPKAPP must be set.
The init value for PSAPES is 1013 hPa. The VS20 application System can correct the pressure PSAPES by the factor vsfpses
with a range of 0 ... 2. The corrected pressure for calculation dpus w is pses w.

Thanks for posting that info RaraK.

Is it necessary to gain have access to PSAPES and vsfpses as well as changing the Codeword CWPKAPP?

The few ECUs I have seen all have PSAPES set to 1013 hpa.

I do not know where the locations are in my ECU to check what the values are.  If someone could help me located them I would reaaaaaaaaally appreciate it.

PSAPES, no.
vsfpses, maybe if it's a different value between return and returnless systems.

I have had little luck actually coming across an OLS file with vsfpses defined in RKTI.

Should I be looking somewhere else?

.....and is there any way to make searching in WinOLS actually find anything?

Does it have PSAPES and CWPKAPP also?

I haven't actually ever come across an OLS file for my ECU, so I am only speaking from the ECUs I have been able to locate with damos listings.

The have CWKPAPP and PSAPES listed under RKTI, but not vsfpses.

How could one go about finding the actual location in my file without an ECU definition?

I observe patterns in the 2D view and look for similar/matching patterns in the destination file. Even though a map (3d,2d, or 1d) might be in 2 totally different place in 2 files, they are usually still grouped with other maps. So, map XYZ is i the middle of map ABC and map DEF. And looking at teh file in 2d you can see a pattern with the 3 maps right next to each other. Look for that same pattern in the other file and map XYZ will be right in the middle.

Now this isn't always the case. but it work more often that not.

What ECU do you have in your car,  and what ECU is the OLs for?

The ECU in my car is 8E0909518AK. ME7.5.

My car is a 2005 Audi A4 1.8T which technically should be using a "8E0909518BC" ECU, but for whatever reason the Eurodyne software didn't really like my ECU so it was cloned to an AK and had the immobilizer defeated. I'm a little unclear as to how this actually affects the ECU and it's functioning........but I was less than thrilled my immobilizer was defeated and now my VIN's don't match.


There isn't a single one ECU that I have been using a reference, but a number of them to see what the general trend is for Me7.  Ultimately it will be up to Eurodyne to find the values, I was just trying to help out.  (I'm not doing so well......haha)

My mom has the same ECU (AK) that you have i think, hers is an 04 Tip though??  Anyways, i probably have a similar .bin to your car on my computer, so i can take a look and try to hunt things down for you, however you run Maestro, so you cannot change these values or less you have a map for them from Chris. 

If you do have a dump of your bin, or have the ability to tell me your software number that may help.

That would be amazing if you could do that for me.....  Thank you so much.

I am trying to help Chris find these maps so that I can convert to a return style fuel system.

I don't have an original dump, but I can try and get one using Tony's software.  Not sure if that would be of use to you or not.

You can PM me ill give you my email addy and we can discuss

I've been playing with a fwd jetta tuned ecu in a 2005 Audi a4,

Is there any adverse effects of using the ecu that's not setup for the returnless?

Hello,

Instead of starting a new topic I´ll reply to this. My 2003 A4 ME7.5 has returnless fuel system from start, but not any more.

Is there need to make any other modification than to put 1 in the FRLFSDP map? I´ve read this: http://www.nefariousmotorsports.com/wiki/index.php/RKTI_11.40_%28Calculation_of_Injection_Time_ti_from_Relative_Fuel_Mass_rk%29 but still for me some uncertainty remains.

Reason I´m asking is that now it seems to be leaning out on boost when this map was set to 1. Of course I can modify KFKHFM to compensate for this but is that the correct way?

BR. Kenneth

When I did a return B6, I just modified FKKVS. Nothing else.

Was this the correct way to do it? Probably not. Does it work well? Yes.

Thanks for the reply. Yes I guess there is no reason for over engineering here. I logged a bit us injector on time versus STFT and it seems to be able to get corrected quite well with that.

Uhm…. there is a separate map with ps_w as axis for fuel correction on returnless ECU's…
It's a very good idea to turn that off, as otherwise I can't see it working quite right.

Ok. I looked in Funktionsrahmen but finding the name for that does not seem so easy. The only map that appears time after time for me is FRLFSDP?

What is the point in converting to return- type fuel system?

The returnless system does not support high fuel flow through the injectors, I guess the only benefit with the returnless is cost, less parts and weight. If you intend to increase power quite much a system with return is needed.

Is it not the problem of low flow fuel pump? Is it not possible to replace the pump leaving the stock pressure regulating part?

Yes, that helps. But with a returnless fuel system the same pump that can support ~500 hp with a fuel system that has return maybe only can support ~400 hp. It depends on you injector size, fuel and power target if the returnless system will suffice or not.

With etanol and large injectors fuel system with return is the way to go.

AFAIK transversely mounted 1.8T even equipped with newest ME7.5 variants had return- type fuel system so maybe those binaries could be helpfull for you to find a difference in tuning?

Bingo.

Sorry, I set that to all 1's in my file :(

Bad info on my part. Apologies.

Does anyone have the locations for the Codeword CWPKAPP and FRLFSDP in this version of the 518AK? I am considering the switch to a return type system to play with E85. Thanks!

CWPKAPP: 19298
FRLFSDP: 1F9F0 (axis right before it.)

You are my hero as usual Daz
Thx

CWPKAPP is not at 1929A adress in this file?

Can anyone help me in changing the return software? I mounted the return ramp and pressure regulator on an A4 BFB and the car sometimes emits smoke at idle. I tried to understand what is written here but I don't really understand.

Good thing you were so specific about what you need help with.

You dont need to change anything in the ECU software. I've done the conversion myself with no issues. If youve got smoke at warmup you might want to tweak warmup enrichment via KFFWL

LOL.
Just like you don't need to change anything in the software for injectors and MAF, just fit bigger injectors and bigger MAF and everything works, am I right?

Of course you need to change ECU configuration. On returnless there's a multiplier to rkti based on ps_w. DUH.
Fueling on boost will be WAY too rich.

You do need to change stuff in non return to return conversion because injector pressure is calculated different on those, as said look at rkti module and such.

My bad, thought you didnt really need to change anything else than FKKVS. I didnt have any problems with it, just changed FKKVS to all 0.
You guys have more experience with it than i have so no doubt that youre correct  ;D

I apologize for the spelling mistakes, I don't know English very well. After mounting the return system, lambda up to 3000 rpm, I see a very rich mixture (over 1.1), this with a 3 bar regulator and at a very high speed, it remains poor and cuts the acceleration. Sometimes, at idle it emits a lot of smoke and the lambda is very high at that moment. I will study the problem in the previous discussions in order to understand exactly what it is about, until then I will mount the returnless system because it is a daily car. I apologize if I bothered anyone

Frlfsdp or something like that
1.1 is a lean mixture

That's a LEAN mixture. If you're asking for power at that lambda the ECU will definitely cut the power to save the engine.  ::)