NefMoto

Hi all,
First -- thanks to all who have been extremely helpful in sorting out all my recent issues. 

This is an AWW 1.8T ECU: 06A906032DL

I have done a basic 'stage 1' tune that i will attach later (i'm at work now).  I've added some fueling to LAMFA in the last column, and made changes to last row of KFMIOP and KFMIRL to support LDRXN maxing out around 200. basically, i haven't touched any part throttle things (except maybe max pressure ratio table).

Part throttle driving at almost any RPM gives me initial overbooost of about 3-4psi.  During and after the inital overboost the AFR reading goes WAYYYY lean (like past O2 sensor limits).  I can't for the life of me figure out why this is happening.  the AFR comes back to request after a few seconds, but the driveability is terrible when this happens and it makes no sense to me.  I'm not sure if hte overboost and AFR are related.  I would think ME7 could handle the overboost.  The actual overboost could be caused by a bad or partially working wastegate actuator or maybe a fauly n249, but the lean condition makes no sense to me.

Sorry i don't have logs or the tune at the moment -- i can upload them tonight.

Thanks in advance for any help!

-Jordan

is the LAMFA the only thing you've touched as far as fueling goes?  You're going to need to go more then that.

What is your fueling strategy like right now if there is more the just LAMFA changes?  If not, you have to remember that the ECU's stock programming is designed to run lambda 1 at all times, for as long as possible (which is quite long at stock boost levels).  VW also decided not to use KR fueling, but only rely on knock intervention (ign angle reduction) and then BTS fueling for protection under extended high load periods.

That said, if only load was changed in your case (IOP/IRL/LDRXN) and the car is going off the scale lean I would assume that you've made an error somewhere (as long as this doesn't happen if the ECU is stock on your car).

I don't believe i made any other fueling changes aside from last two columns of LAMFA and i think i added a bit in the last row of BTS (which wouldn't affect this i suppose).  What other changes woudl you suggest?  I definitely need to do more reading on fueling. 

From the wiki, I'm guissing this is what I need to look at?

I think i've also confused myself on knock recognition based fueling.  Is knock recognition fueling pre-emptive, or will it only be used if knock is detected?  If it's only when knock is detected, i really don't like that approach and that leaves LAMFA and BTS from what i understand.  I guess i need to log and see if i'm hitting the BTS threshold when i get this lean condition.  If so, i shoudl be able to add fuel with BTS, right?

Usually BTS is rich stock and LAMFA is lean. Most people make LAMFA richer from the boost initiates and up to prevent timing pull and switching to BTS fast.

Regarding your overboost you might have to look at KFLDIMX if you have not touched that yet.

If your injectors + MAF is stock you shouldn't have to touch either of them.

Nothing anyone says is going to help you since you still haven't posted logs, the problem could be elsewhere as I don't understand why you would have such a lean spike condition in the first place.

I'm guessing a restrictive stock FPR or weak fuel pump. I think this guy said he replaced an O-ring on his FPR and the car got better in another thread, haven't seen logs after the fact yet though. Alot of the big name tuners APR, GIAC, REVO, UNITRONICS, etc require a switch out of the stock FPR to at least a 4bar OEM unit on thier tunes that still utilize the stock injectors. They might be on to something..

Sorry for the delay everyone.  I'll try to post logs and the tune today. 

I did replace fuel pump and FPR, and yes, i saw full throttle problem solved, but this is a part-throttle issue.  I agree, i think a 4 bar FPR would be smart, but i don't think it will make any difference at < 14psi (which is where i see this problem).  Just in driving the car, i really don't think the overboost is the issue.  Yes, it goes past where it should, but only, say, to 14psi for a second when it should be at 10psi.  I'm leaning towards a mechanical failure.  I would normally think boost leak, but that would cause a rich condition.  Maybe MAF is on the way out.  I'll have to do a log and post it.

Thanks for all the help!

ok -- i know it's been a while... but i finally have some logs.  I think i may be way off on this problem.  I'm fairly certain the fuel system is working correctly.  AFR actually looks good.  I have switched to a 4bar FPR and changed KRKTE to .08936 and car performs exactly the same (except i dialed in some more boost in the high RPMS, but that's unrelated).

I can fairly easily recreate the problem if i get in 3rd gear or above, boost to about 15 psi, then pull out of the pedal to maybe 1/3 throttle.  It holds at about 10psi of boost, but runs like shit and sputters and feels like its misfiring badly.  So, i replaced plugs (brk7es gapped at .028), replaced the coil wiring harness with the VW overlay harness, replaced all coils and nothing changed.  I've replaced the fuel pump and i thought it made a difference, but it actualyl didn't.  I think i have had two seperate issues with this car -- one being fueling in higher RPMs and one being this odd part throttle problem.  Fueling seems good and car runs well under full throttle for the most part.

I have no CEL and no codes.

Log
-does the correlation between throttle pedal and throttle plate angle look odd to anyone?
-AFR looks good
-the log hardly shows the problem at all, but i can assure you, it was running terribly during this log after 1.5-2 seconds in.
-its VERY odd to me that after i reduce boost/pedal i get MUCH higher injector duty cycle.  thoughts?

as always, any help is greatly appreciated.

well -- i feel a bit stupid -- i didn't even look at misfires in the log.  Cylinder 1 misfires regularly during the poor running part.  I will replace that coil with another and see if it changes anything...

well -- now i don't feel so stupid lol.  I replaced the coil with a known good coil and have the same condition.  The wiring is not an issue as i replaced the whole harness last night.  Plugs were replaced yesterday as well. All the plugs looked fairly equal as far as color goes. I'd think if there was a bad injector on cylinder 1 i'd see a difference in the plugs.  Injectors are really the only thing left that i can think of.  Anyone have any ideas?

More boost requires colder plugs and a decreased gap to prevent misfires. What are you running?

BRK7Es with .028 gap

Just a minor update --

The problem is defietnely gettign worse.  Car is hardly driveable part throttle now, which would indicate to me maybe a boost leak.  I THOUGHT i coudl rule that out, but when i do a boost leak test, i generally remove the MAF and pressurive where the MAF attaches.  This, by nature, would not find a leak in the diverter valve.  I did have a small whistle the other day under boost, which i presumed was just a small boost leak, but it went away (so maybe the leak got worse).  I'll need to do another boost leak test.  Question is, could a bad diverter valve be causing this?  I'm defientely seeing slower boost build-up, but that could also be because it's misfiring while trying to build boost.  I STILL have no CEL and no codes....

I ordered one of those vacuum blocks off ebay for like 25 bucks . it has assorted barbed fittings and plugs and some other parts. my intention is to use it for boost leak testing. That way I don't have to hear the air come out the oil filler hole and dipstick tube from blow by from some of the valves being open. I will still have to plug the "hockey puck"'s hole in the TIP and I will detach all lines from the intake, plug the boost hose which is attached to the throttle body. This will effectively pressurize eveything that sees boost except the throttle body, intake manifold itself and crank case. After you figure out any leaks its easy to test the throttle body and intake mani/injectors the traditional method of boost leak testing for the 1.8t.

If you've done some deletes, maybe DTC codes aren't showing up because of that.

Thanks for the reply.  I was wondering about this also.  I only deleted rear O2, but i wouldn't be suprised if i did it wrong.. maybe someone can verify?  The file is attached to first post.  I will try setting all teh O2 delete stuff back tonight, although that might cause some other issues as i don't have the rear O2 in the car at all.

Rule out hardware and try a standard map?

Or mine?

I would try a standard tune, but I don't think the problem will creep up with only 6-7lbs of boost.  Maybe i should try a standard tune from an AWP?  If you have a known good tune and can post it that would be awesome!

Ok just an update for anyone who might be following this ---

I did do a new boost leak test and found a ripped silicone coupler.  Replaced that and car runs much better, but i'm basically back to where i started at the beginning of this thread.  Tee problem is still there, the boost leak was just amplifying it.  I did a VERY thorough boost leak test after i replaced the coupler on a hot engine and there are definitely no boost leaks now.  I also tested with the DV out of the inlet tube and it did not leak at 25+psi or 0-10 psi.

I did flash stock AWP software and the problem was more subtle (running far less boost), but still there -- so i think i can rule out any software issues.

I did have some issues with this ECU a WHILE back that i forgot about.  car was generally running strangely so i took ECU apart and cleaned it with electrical contact cleaner and car ran better.. however, i also fixed a shorted wire to the p/s pump at the same time, so i'm not sure the ECU actually had any issues.  I ordered a new one to test with but i haven't gotten it yet.  Maybe the ECU is just bad?  that would be an easy fix at this point...

of course, now my clutch is slipping due to all this new-found power lol.  So it might be hard to diagnose this until i get that fixed.  We shall see.  Any new advice is, as always, greatly appreciated.

I'll try to get some fresh logs today or tomorrow.

the clutch slipping was going to happen, it was just a matter time. my stock clutch lasted 56,000 miles before coming apart at the track. After going through a stg2 and stg 2+ clutch kit from Spec, got about 30,000 miles on each.. I went with their stg3+ clutch disc, which has a double sprung hub with full face phosphor/brz compound and got just over 90,000 miles out of it using thier 525 ft/lb pressure plate and 7.5 lb flywheel. I'm on my second round of stg3+ clutch and expect another 90,000 miles out of it. just sayin.. its a good setup from Spec, the stg3+. I can't really compare it though because Spec is all I've ever used. I can say that it feels pretty much the same as a stock clutch AFTER break in.

thanks for the advice.  I ran a spec clutch in my last GTI and it was great.  However, i think i'm going to cheap out and go with a $300 ebay deal with a lightweight flywheel.  probably the 6-puck version (If i keep teh car long enough to go witha 2871 or 3071 maybe this will hold up for a while).   I may not keep this car too much longer (considering a Golf R), so I don't want to throw too much more money at it.  Plus, i love it when cheap things work well — i believe the ebay clutch kits contain parts made by the same people as the big names.

attached are two logs.  The second one (included screenshot -- sorry for the messy log view) might be the most telling.  It shows throttle cut, presumably related to overshot on boost.  I'm somehwat convinced there are two problems here.  I think the overboosting and surging is one problem and the misfires/generally running lioke crap under partial boost is another.  I think even when boost surges beyond request the ME7 should still run the car fine -- e.g. there shouldn't be misfires/etc.

I did notice a lean spike again during the overboost?  is this normal?  Also, I'm only at maybe 50% throttle but throttle plate angle is 100.  Is this normal?  Is a lambda 1 request normal at part throttle like this?  I'd think it would want/need more fuel at these boost levels even at part throttle.  maybe I'm wrong there.

Just from looking at those graphs.. The throttle cut is because it is over shooting boost, or at least the deviation is too great..

The misfires.. Well it running horribly lean in log 2 especially for 21 psi of boost! Maybe look into that.. Might solve the lean misfires.

Are you running a stronger actuator on this at the moment?

thanks for the help!  I assumed the throttle cut was because of boost overshot.  I'm not sure the history of the turbo ro actuator, but it's definetely suspicious.  I actually have another thread open in the "wanted" section looking for a stock k03s actuator.  I have a sneeking suspicion that this might be a chinese ko3s, but haven't actually looked yet,

As far as the lean misfires go.... I'm not really clear why/how it's going lean?  On a full throttle pull, the AFR is spot on at 12:1, so i THINK my fuel system is able to keep up.  Does this point to some sort of hardware problem or is there something in the tune i should investigate? (i believe the tune is attached to first post if you want to take a look)

Its a bit of a mess this chart, but you'll see here that the boost actual is at the limit at 2550 and the requested at the point the throttle cuts is more than 300Mbar EDLDRP limit ( over boost) To get rid of the throttle cut you can increase this but then you'll not solving the problem! What you have to remember is that 2550 is the ecu limit for reading boost, so you could actually be at 30 psi! Not good and would explain a few things!

Where abouts are you located as I have actuators.

Also the WOT fueling is by LAMFA and hence why you get 12afr. Part throttle isn't and it needs sorting but I'm guessing your issue is the boost over shoot, to be over 2550 on partial isn't good for sure

well that's some very interesting info!  I was always under the (obviously incorrect) impression that the map limit was 2550 OVER atmospheric!  i can confirm that i never see of 21/22psi on the boost gauge though, so at least the boost levels are safe(ish). 

I'm in the US -- Philly area.  I'm guessing you are in the UK? 

Assuming the actuator is, in fact, tighter than stock, if i just blanket lower KFLDRL for testing, would that be a reasonable way to quickly "adjust" for a tighter actuator (at least to cut out the overboost)?  I realize the boost control wouldn't be ideal, but i think that would stop initial overboost at least.

2550 Mbar is 36 psi, you need to take off the atmospheric pressure ie around 14 to get the 22 psi cap.. ECU plot show 2250 which is uncorrected or actual PSI boost with the correction.. standard atmosphere is 1013, 2550-1013 = 1537 or 22.2psi...

To test the actuator just unplug the N75.. that way you will get a base line boost pressure for the actuator by logging, it's worth doing a full run 2000-redline to ensure you are not getting boost creep as well, which isn't uncommon for the chinese turbos.

never even crossed my mind to do this... Thanks!! i will do it on my commute home (that's my usual 1hr long test session lol) and report back.

Ran exactly 5psi on the nose with n75 disconnected. I think that's correct for a factory actuator

yep afaik.

so i have a suspicion this might be the problem:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYUDpAOmDT4&feature=youtu.be

It's the only logical thing i can think of at this point.  A person in another forum was saying his car had erratic boost but ran exactly 5psi with n75 disconnected.  I do get some burning oil smell sometimes which i assume is the turbo seals going, so i guess it's time to replace or upgrade .... damn!  Do you think this problem could be repairs?  I guess i could use some copper washers or something idk...

What are your fuel trims looking like?

Sea Foam the engine via vacuum hose or straight into the intake. The smoke out the exhuast will show any leaks in the system including through the WG arm bushing. or you could unbolt the actuator shaft and cop a feel to see if the arm slides in and out.

a tell tale sign of the oil seals failing is oil consumption, oil in the charge air piping/intercooler and white or gray smoke out the exhaust.

if your problem mirrors whats in the vid, just replace the turbo.



 

If the waste gate was loose like that, then I'd expect you to more than likely make no boost than over boost! As in the ones I've seen the loose waste gate causes the flap not to sit over the opening and bleed the gas..

I'd possibly suggest flashing a stock map back on the car and seeing if the same issue occurs.. If it does then it's definitely hard ware related..