NefMoto

Any possibility of using this to hook up the OBDll cable to an Android phone, and use a Windows 7 emulator or something (I don't even know if this exists) to flash tunes from our phone?

http://www.amazon.com/USB-Micro-Female-Male-Adaptor/dp/B0023FTRUO

I wouldn't tune this way, but it would be awesome to be able to flash when you're out and about without having to carry a laptop around.  Thoughts?

And Tony, any idea if the bluetooth OBDll adapters they have for the android have the hardware necessary to flash from your program?  And are you considering any mobile device support? THAT would be awesome.

Tony,
I would be all over this... maybe it could be a feature included with your premium software down the road.

All of the NefMoto software is written in .NET. I would need to rewrite it in C or Java to run on Android. It is at the back of my mind, but I want to get the desktop software to a place I am happy with first.

If I were to support Android I would use the Bluetooth ELM OBD2 dongles. They can't support the high baud rates that the USB cables can, but they are fairly standard and cheap.

Currently there is no way to get the NefMoto software to run on anything but Windows in it's current form.

PS: I own an Android Galaxy S phone, so if I ever support a mobile version if will be on Android.

Pssssst.. put up on github and i'll help :)

I'm all about Android as I'm a huge Android whore.  I can probably supply some test devices if necessary :)

Call me "thick" but what's the point?

You'd still need to tune on a PC after all as well as do all the other stuff. All the other appz run on PC hardware only as well, like VCDS, EcuX, TunerPro etc... since you need so much software which needs to be mobile to be useful, you already have a laptop/netbook/whatever platform.

I'd rather see Tony thinking if innovative features instead of wasting time re-writing for Android/etc.

would be nice to be able to see what your car is doing if you don't have a laptop handy :)

also, portable code is always good.

I can definitely see things like simple data logging, checking error codes, and flashing ECUs or switching tunes using a mobile device. To maintain the most compatibility with existing mobile hardware I think everything should be designed around an ELM bluetooth dongle. That way the ELM hardware can handle all of the low level communication protocol timings so that the mobile device doesn't have to deal with it. ELM devices only support baud rates up to 10400 I believe, which is super slow compared to the baud rates we can do with the FTDI USB cables. Just try flashing in the NefMoto software using the 10400 baud rate instead of the maximum baud rate and see how long it takes.

iOS can be programmed in C and Objective C. Android can be programmed in Java and C. You can also use some third party middleware to run .NET on Android and iOS.

The current NefMoto software uses a bunch of fancy features in .NET like asynchronous delegates, so it is necessarily a direct port from .NET to any other language.

The plan in my mind at the moment, is to isolate the FTDI USB interfaces in my code, provide additional support for RS232 serial cables, and ELM based cables. At that point the code will hopefully be modular enough to consider rewriting some of the lower level systems in straight C and just have .NET sitting on top.

I see your point, and I already do have a laptop (16" with intel i5 CPU and 8gb ram) that I'll tune off of, but having tune switching capability on the phone would serve the purpose that the old GIAC flashloaders did, you could swap tunes on the fly without having to always have your laptop in the car.  It would be a great help for me, because I'm going to have at least 4 different tunes (91 oct, 91 oct with nitrous, E85 and E85 with nitrous).  It would suck to have to have either my laptop always, or 4 ECU's to be able to switch between programs.

On the other hand though, I just bought a netbook with Windows 7 that I'm going to keep in the car, so I don't know how much that'll really help me personally now ha.  And you can get ASUS Aspire One's on ebay with windows 7 starter for $100-150, so it's not a big investment for anyone to keep in their car to have for mobile logging/map switching.

And I agree, that I'd rather see more functionality, like a tuning GUI (like Maestro), than Android capability, since we know how limited your time is, Tony.

I dig that!

Don't get me wrong, I think a mobile tuning solution would be great, but I'd prefer switching like APR.  That said, you can find an Asus EEE refurb for ~$150 if you shop around.  They are durable and fast enough, but cheap and small enough to keep in the car.  In fact I think the smaller ones  (700/900 series) might even fit in the glovebox.

Yup, I'm keeping a 10" Acer in the car at all times.  Have people figured out how to do the APR cruise control stalk switching yet?

I know where the cruise control button values are stored in RAM, and I have a plan on how to implement map switching, which should also allow for real-time tuning.

It's coming, I promise, one day.  :D

Messed with the "generic" elm bluetooth dongle from ebay, works well, started some basic com's on the bench with my evo 4g phone, moving on to some canbus in a week or so.

Have you checked out the Torque Android app? I played with that for a bit on my Galaxy S and eBay ELM Bluetooth dongle. It only does standard OBD stuff though, nothing VAG specific.

Yep i was looking at that program, wouldnt be bad if it knew what to do with Pcodes, a database of sorts would be nice, have it read the manufacturer and get legit codes.

I was going to start a java/elm CAN based program just to mess around with(got a MK5 VW) which then easily ports to android.  Just need to find time, half the work is done with the elm interface, which is nice.

I just got wood.

So, I just got this in the mail the other day, and I can't believe how good of a deal I got.  I bought it from someone who bought it new a couple of weeks ago and thought they broke the keyboard when they replaced the ram.  They put in a new 4gb stick that they included with the computer, as well as a spare keyboard, and it took me 20 mins to get the keyboard working and tape it in.  Got this and the ram for like $215 shipped

http://www.amazon.com/Acer-AO522-BZ465-10-1-Inch-Netbook-Diamond/dp/B004PYD7AC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1304676248&sr=8-1

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231266

not to be a debbie downer, but be advised APR has some patents here... you may want to consider other "switching" ideas (external button on an unused ME7 input, or repurposed input, like one of the EGTs, etc.)

I was always curious if patent infringement also covers an individual use thing, that in no way has monetary implications (like me using whatever APR's patented cruise-control stalk on my own personal vehicle, only for my own use).  Of course, if that were the case, they'd have a tough time hearing about it or whatever, but I'm curious as to the extent of the IP coverage.

Generally, Patents and there to prevent other people making money from your ideas. So for personal / hobby use it really isn't worth worrying about.

I think it would be difficult for those patents to be upheld unless you stole APR's switching code.

Patents don't work that way :(



Patents don't work that way either.

I would be very surprised if APR had a patent for switching maps based on cruise control input.

That would imply that no other automobile manufacturer has a patent for changing performance characteristics based on user input....

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/7047128.pdf (http://www.freepatentsonline.com/7047128.pdf)

Nyet, I know about this. It really isn't work spending time worrying about. What would you get sued for? Why would any company spend time and legal costs perusing an individual and prove they infringed their specific IP? Even medium scale companies wilfully infringe patents because it's so costly to prove they have that most don't bother. In fact, there's a good argument for not patenting ideas these days to keep them out of the public domain for as long as possible.

More than a few tuners (big and small) were on the sharp end of APR's legal dept.....

This patent specifically covers blending a stock map with an aftermarket performance map using an interpolation ratio set by an external device via the ECU communications port. It also covers a specific method for validating if a signature in the EEPROM matches a signature in the Flash and preventing the car from running or forcing the car to run in stock mode.

This patent does not cover switching maps, or switching maps via the cruise control stalk.

Also, if this patent ever made it to court, I am sure you could invalid it using prior art. The interpolation of a two maps based on a user specified blending amount is almost identical to how the ECU interpolates ignition timing based on intake camshaft advance. Also the method for preventing ECU copying and programming the ECU is very close the OEM methods already implemented.

IIRC GIAC did not succeed vs APR and they settled.

And an individual, no matter how in the "right", typically can't win vs a company with an actual legal team :(

The only way to win is to develop a patent portfolio for defense... perhaps the community here can build one... and/or join OIN etc.

Again, I am not a lawyer, but I have had personal experience in patent lawsuits :)

I didn't read much past the copy protection encryption part, but based on Tony's synopsis and your comments, are you guys saying that the patent contends that the ability to read/write and ECU with different scalars (tune an ECU in essence) is APR's sole property?  If so, that's retarded.

Any details on GIAC v. APR?  Did they infringe on the general tuning, or specifically with the flash loader or something?

I think it was specifically the cruise control mechanism...

In the above patent, what was patented was interpolating between two maps, a stock one, and a performance one. This would be to allow you to have a 50% performance map by blending the two maps.

I wouldnt worry about the patents so much, incase you didnt know about the APR vs. Revo thing...

http://www.goapr.com/revo/

LOL, um... wow...

Just starting to play around with logging and flashing a b5 s4.  Would sure be interested to hear if there are any developments on the bluetooth adapter front.  I know GIAC now has a bluetooth flashloader.  http://www.giacusa.com/flashloader_handheld.php (http://www.giacusa.com/flashloader_handheld.php) I would love to replace my GIAC flashloader for my B7 A4 and HEX-CAN with a small bluetooth device that could be left plugged in.  Anyone been able to log at a reasonable refresh rate via bluetooth(pc or smartphone)?