NefMoto

Hi all,

Ok so I'm a complete newbie at this stuff so please excuse anything that I may say or leave out that may be incorrect.
Basically I bought an 2009 A3 1.9tdie off an insurance company and it was missing a few bits like cluster and airbag etc. Now Ive replaced all parts and gave it to a friend who claimed he could sync the whole lot on the computer. But he seems to be having issues at the moment with syncing the cluster to the ecu. He has told me that the immobilizer is active at the moment and he needs a pin to deactivate it to be able to sync the cluster. He has asked me to see if I can retrieve the ecu of the cluster but I can't. Ive read up on the cluster transfer on ross-tech http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/Immobilizer_III_Immobilizer_Swapping_(Instrument_Cluster) (http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/Immobilizer_III_Immobilizer_Swapping_(Instrument_Cluster)) and it claims that i have to transfer the details of the new with the old cluster. So my question is I guess is it possible to retrieve the pin of the new cluster? And if not, what would be my best course of action?
I really would appreciate any advice and help on this. There seems to be a serious knowledge base on this website about this sort of stuff but sadly the guys in the garages seem clueless.

Hmmm when it's from 2009 i think You have 3 ways:
1)Audi dealership and online coding
2)Immo off
3)Someone that has AVDI with activated modules for Your car/ecu
Pin will not help You.

Ok so this is were my lack of knowledge come in, so excuse my stupidity on the subject but to the best of my knowledge, the guys who are looking at the car claim to have the AVDI to activate the modules but they were telling me that the cluster I must have gotten came off a car that the immobilizer was already set as they couldn't get into the cluster without a pin. I have my doubts about this though as wouldn't the cluster have to have a battery to retain that information and if so, couldn't this be reset? I prefer not to turn the immo off and Audi really would be a last option. They wanted 820 euro plus vat for the cluster alone. Oh and what did you mean about the online coding? Thanks for your help on this mumin. Appreciate it.

Heh when they have AVDI they should do it without problems. Pin and other immo data is stored in EEProm memory so it does not need battery to retain all the information.
As You have 1.9TDI it should have EDC16 so they can read immobilizer info from ECU. I know that Audi has such prices but they should also code used cluster to the car (when it was not stolen).
Online coding is online coding ...dealership has to connect to central Audi server to do all the codings.

Thanks mumin for your help. I've been sick in hospital the past few days so haven't been looking at this at all. I have however have came up with two reasons why it might not be working.
No 1: The immo was disabled on the ecu when it was hooked up to the online software last time. Apparently this won't work unless the immo is enabled.
No 2: Its quite possible that the wrong cluster is being used in the car. Their is several different types of clusters for the audi a3 and they all look the same to the naked eye.

Has anyone on here maybe got the VAG catalog that can give you the part number of the cluster (that should be in the car) if I give you the necessary details? I would really appreciate if any of you did and could do this for me as I'm kinda stuck.

download vag etka

I did try that before. I downloaded ETKA 7.4 and it spent days updating (I actually mean days), as it seem to only download like 4 releases at a time and then you would have to start again. Anyway I think it was on day 3 or 4 when it crapped itself and stopped working. So I never even got a chance to use it as it has to be fully up to date before it will let you. I'm really looking to get this car sorted this week so if anyone already had an up to date version, I would be greatly appreciative.
I did find this website http://www.partscats.info/ which seems like a pretty good substitute for EKTA but I can't even find the cluster that is in the car on it. So I'm a little confused right now. Think I really need someone who has access to audis EKTA that can search parts by VIN. Its the only way I can be sure.

change the date to feb 2013 and it will work
 ;)

Marty your a genius :)

Do you change it on the computer or EKTA? If EKTA, where do you change it?

on your pc bottom right corner where the time is located right click>time date settings

Starting in 2009 many clusters need to have the eeprom read and modified with a programmer before you can access immo data if the immobilizer isn't already matched and a valid key is used.  After you modify the eeprom you should be able to use avdi to change over immo data to match the ecm assuming he has the proper functions.  I doubt you will be able to use the pin and the usual matching procedures.  The procedure is in the avdi user manual.

Marty: Thanks a million. That worked a treat.

BDK: Thank you so much for that info. My head is literally fried at this stage and no one seems to be able to give me any daylight on what might be the issue. Do you know what has to be read and modified on the eeprom before you can access the immo data? I had the car hooked up to an AVDI today and it couldn't read the immo data. It would basically just read zeros and many of the functions wouldn't work as it would just give a immo active warning.

My car was built in 2008 (the facelift model) but the cluster is from a 2009 car. I didn't actually realize this at the time but the cluster that was originally in the car (8P0 920 982 C) is a different part number to the one that is in it now (8P0 920 982 J). I originally thought that this might be causing an issue but then read on other forums of people switching these regularly without issues. But I'm now thinking if the issue is only with clusters from 2009 on, could I just buy a 2008 cluster and match the immo with the avdi as normal?

Thank you so much for your help on this. Greatly appreciated it.

cool man glad it worked for you

Out of interest, does anyone on here have AVDI vag commander or have used it before? I just want to clarify the process as I know someone who has it but I don't think he knows how to use it for a cluster change? Any help really appreciated guys. I can't believe this is taking so long to get sorted. Its been to a couple of "specialists" now and still nothing.

I have avdi, along with some functions.  I have not done anything with the newer (2009 up) clusters yet with it so what I know is limited to the user manual info and experiences with older clusters.

On older cars cluster swaps were pretty simple, just a matter of getting the pin codes and using vcds.  Newer clusters are much more difficult and there are variations between manufacturers and part numbers.  I can suggest how I would approach it if I know more about your situation.

Does the person you know with avdi have a clone or genuine tool?
Do you know the manufacturer of your cluster?  It may be possible to determine the manufacturer from the advanced id info using vcds. 
Does your car have kessy? 
Do you know if the cluster uses uds protocol or the older can protocol? 
If it is can does adaptation channel 50 show "security access required" or "channel not available".
Is your ecm edc16 or edc17?

If you have a complete vcds autoscan that may also help
 

Thank you BDK for your response.
 
I think thats the issue I'm having at the moment. Most people assume that its the same as the older cars where you just get the pins and match them up. So they tell me they can do it and then realize they can't. So kinda looking for someone who has maybe has avdi at the moment and familiar with the process.
I have read through the AVDI manual myself but its not really clear on the process and there seems to be a few different ways of doing things. I also seen a video on youtube from abrites that showed a cluster change on a 2010 audi a4 (need to bring this back to virgin state which requires another license) and its process wasn't even in the manual.
 
Does the person you know with avdi have a clone or genuine tool?
To the best of my knowledge it is genuine.
Do you know the manufacturer of your cluster?  It may be possible to determine the manufacturer from the advanced id info using vcds.
The manufacturer is VDO. Part number 8P0 920 982 J. Date on cluster is 29/07/09. Car is late 2008 though. I'm unsure if the cluster is NEC or Micronas but the manaul says that cars after 2009 maybe NEC. So if I was to guess, I would say Micronas.
Does your car have kessy?
No my car hasn't got this.
Do you know if the cluster uses uds protocol or the older can protocol?
I'm not sure. How would I verify this?
If it is can does adaptation channel 50 show "security access required" or "channel not available"
Will also have to check this.
Is your ecm edc16 or edc17?
Its a edc16u34 to the best of my knowledge
 
I'll see if I can get the data that I'm missing and come back to you. I don't have the car at the moment as its at the place that has the avdi. I don't really know the guy so I'm not sure he'll give me the freedom of the software to figure it out myself but if I had a clearer indication of the process then I could maybe instruct the guy what to do is my thinking.
 

Have you ruled out just disabling the immobilizer?  Seems like the easiest way by far, you probably will end up living with some warning lights though.

Do you know what faults are stored in the cluster? That would help to see if component protection is activated.  I was assuming you just needed to match the cluster but you may need to do even more after I think about this more. 

If your cluster uses the uds protocol it won't have the regular numbered measured value blocks.  Those have a description that comes up with vcds.  If I remember right vcds displays the protocol used in the upper left hand corner at least it does with k wire cars.  The older can (and k wire) protocol uses numbers to access the value block you want.  If you have numbered value blocks and adaptation channel 50 shows "security access required"  it's possible you could adapt it once you determine the pin but I doubt it will be that easy. 

Regardless, step one will be to read the ecm eeprom, save the file, record the cs (component security) and mac values.  Hopefully you have all 7 cs values.  If you only have 6 its going to be harder again.  If I remember correctly edc16 usually contains all 7, at least around here.

If they try the key learning function with wizard mode avdi should autodetect the car and hopefully confirm your car does have the cluster you think.  Late vdo clusters are the ones that require modification to the eeprom to read and enter service mode.  Service mode will allow you to read and update immo data.  It looks like avdi asks you to load a dump which it modifies and then you can load back to the eeprom with a programmer.  After that you can reinstall the cluster and read via obd. This is where you will find the pin from the new cluster. Again it's possible you could adapt the cluster by using the 2 pins but I doubt it. From there you I would update the cluster with vin, pin, cs and mac using the values from the ecm.  As for the configuration and status fields I'm not really familar with those.  I believe the configuration data is at least partially related to the keys from something I read before but I can't seem to find that now.  It appears avdi handles checksums as needed.

It's unclear to me from the avdi manual if your car will simply use a pin to program the keys or if you need to use the avdi programmer.  If it's the programmer (non pin method) you will need to do that before exiting service mode. 

If the avdi is genuine they can contact support.  My experience with support is hit or miss but that may be your best bet.If your paying someone to do this I wouldn't expect it to be  cheap.  There will probably be a signifigant time investment,  The new cluster from Audi may be more reasonable than you think.  There is no guarantee this will get you where you need to be but it is how I would start.  Do you have the original keys or are they new as well?
   

One of the first things we did was disable the immo but the car only starts in safe mode. So a lot of warning lights and some electrics not working. I think component protection is activated as it seems to block avdi from doing other functions. We tried altering the mileage by 2 miles to see if it would work and we got a immo activated error.
I have the original keys to the car so they should already match whats in the eeprom. Unfortunately we just don't seem to be able to match the cluster with the eeprom. The guy who has the avdi doesn't have the license for component protection either, so not able to disable it.
He has requested for me to get him another cluster now and the key from the car of which the cluster came off. I'm not really sure why but I thing he reckons that he could disable component protection if he had the key of the cluster. I have my doubts about this but I'm trying to keep the faith.
The audi dealership would be in excess of 1200 euro for this job so it really would be end of the line for me.

Sorry to say that but it looks like you did not make any good deal buying car in such a mess.

IMHO getting cluster (preferably not newer then 2008) and matching key/transpoder might be an option as this should let you adapt ECU to it. If not you will have to take dealership way or make a parts car of it.

I've sorced a 2008 1.9tdi being broke at the moment and I seem to be able to pick up parts of it for very reasonable money. Only concerns I have is that it's a bxe engine and mines a bls. It's cluster is also in kph and mine is in mph. Does anyone know if this will make a difference? I'd prefer to nearly change ecu, cluster, transponder etc off another car to mine rather than give it to Audi. Can anyone provide any insight?

Use all parts from the second car to start your car, find a reputable diesel tuner and ask him to readout both ECUs using BDM and implement EEPROM data from donor car into your original dump and use it in ECU of your choice.

You can also try to use cluster and transponder from donor car and your ECU but only if you can readout PIN from donor car - it might be wiser to try it before removing all those parts from it.

EDIT: You can try to make donor cluster read in mph but then you will have to reflash it with different dump...

Yea well my original plan was to try and match the cluster of the donar car with the transponder. I think part of the issue with the old cluster is component protection is enabled and this stops avdi from changing the pin. Kinda hoping that this wont happen if you have the transponder. If this fails, I was then thinking of using the donar cars ecu but not sure if it will work because of the different engine codes. I'm fine with the clocks being in mph as I'm in Ireland and that's what our national speeds are in. The car was a uk import. I was just concerned would the difference cause an issue with comparability between the ecu and cluster?

You can run even petrol cluster if you want - it does not matter as long as it supports same immobilizer protocol as ECU uses.
For example I am running Golf IV R32 IMMO3 cluster in Golf IV TDI with IMMO2 ECU...