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Title: Reading/Flashing Immobilizer Info Post by: SteveAR on May 25, 2011, 10:14:06 AM 2004 Audi Allroad
2.7T 6MT ME 7.1.1 ECU part # 4Z7 907 551 S Anyone know if it’s possible/safe to read the small IC on the ECU without removing it from the back of the PCB? (I will call this the “immobilizer IC” even though I’m sure it contains other info) I know in some cases a chip clip can be used and the IC can be read with a programmer and in other cases trying to power up the IC with it attached to the PCB can cause issues. The small IC on the BACK is what I understand to contain immobilizer information etc. (please correct me if I’m wrong) I’d like to buy a used ECU and set it up as a spare. Probably from EBAY and most likely I WON’T get the security PIN with the ECU. I would like to read the entire “main” program from my functioning ECU (which should be the easy part with the software from this website) but I will also have to get immobilizer (etc) info onto the spare as well. I have several microchip programmers at home and access to many more at work so if this is the easiest route I have the hardware covered. Thank you Title: Re: Reading/Flashing Immobilizer Info Post by: DJGonzo on May 25, 2011, 10:17:49 AM Absolutely no flashing Immo info via OBD.
You can only read partial RAM info. Title: Re: Reading/Flashing Immobilizer Info Post by: SteveAR on May 25, 2011, 10:26:14 AM Can anyone else read my entire post? I only see the first few lines.....
Anyway, understood about no direct flashing of the IMMO info which is why I'm trying to do it "manually" by reading the IC with a programmer directly attached to the IC, not through the OBD port. I don't know how else a person would get a used ECU working for them without going this route. (short of taking it to a dealer I suppose) Title: Re: Reading/Flashing Immobilizer Info Post by: SteveAR on May 25, 2011, 10:28:57 AM OK i fixed my first post. Somehow most of what I wrote didn't get posted......
Title: Re: Reading/Flashing Immobilizer Info Post by: DJGonzo on May 25, 2011, 10:31:57 AM You will need a clip and a programmer. Seems like you have one so all you need now is a clip :)
Title: Re: Reading/Flashing Immobilizer Info Post by: SteveAR on May 25, 2011, 10:35:16 AM :) I was hoping to find someone who's done it before. I was googling the topic a while back and found someone who said that powering up the IC (via the programmer) to read the info off of it can be problematic with it still being connected to other circuits on the PCB. especially since some IC's require a higher voltage be applied to certain pins during reading/programming than during normal operation. IIRC, this person was talking about adding diodes or resistors etc. Don't know if they were working with the same ECU as me, but I don't want to damage my perfectly functioning ECU! Trying to be cautious
Title: Re: Reading/Flashing Immobilizer Info Post by: phila_dot on May 25, 2011, 10:51:23 AM I am unfamiliar with Allroad specific immobilizer information, but is there a reason that you can't simply mate the new ECU vice cloning the old one? The procedure seems fairly simple. What version of immo is it?
Title: Re: Reading/Flashing Immobilizer Info Post by: SteveAR on May 25, 2011, 11:09:07 AM It is IMMO 3. To the best of my understanding the IMMO info (and maybe other data) is stored on a small (8 pin?) PROM on the back side of the ECU PCB. It is independent of the main flash where the bulk of the software goes. (engine tune etc.) So doing a clone I believe only copies the data from the main PROM, not the IMMO prom. I believe a program called VAG COMMANDER may be able to copy/flash the small IMMO prom however it's expensive and I don't want to use a warez version. I'd rather attach this from a hardware perspective (reading/flashing chip directly) than use hacked software.
Title: Re: Reading/Flashing Immobilizer Info Post by: phila_dot on May 25, 2011, 11:22:35 AM You could try this, but it would require assistance from the dealership, or you would need to obtain your SKC's on your own. I am not sure of the requirements for the workshop code, date and importer.
Immobilizer 3 ECU swapping Immobilizer III: Some 2001+ Volkswagen/Audi vehicles have Immobilizer III. This works similarly to Immobilizer II, except a secret key code (SKC) is required in order to perform the adaptation routine. The routine changes depending on whether you are using a BRAND NEW ECU that has never been in any other car, or if you are using a USED ECU that has been previously matched to another car. Immo-3 knows your car's VIN. Access 17-Instruments (or separate 25-Immobilizer on vehicles that are set up that way) and look at the first "Extra" field. If you see something like: "Immo-ID VWZ7Z0W0648696" You've got Immo-2 (or maybe even Immo-1 in earlier non-US models). If you see something like "WVZKB58001H231169 VWZ7Z0W0648696" You've got Immo-3. The first 17-digit string is the VIN. The second 14-digit string in the Immo-ID. There are different procedures for installing a new ECU or a usedECU. NEW: Before Installing a BRAND NEW ECU in vehicle, get the ECM coding from the old ECU in the vehicle [Select] [01 - Engine] Write down the 5-digit Soft. Coding [Close Controller, Go Back - 06] [17 - Instruments] Write down the 14 digit Immobilizer ID number from the "Extra" field [Close Controller, Go Back - 06] Take that 14-digit Immobilizer ID number (along with your VIN number) to your dealer and request your seven-digit SKC, along with the workshop code and importer number (all this information can be found in the upper-right corner of the Administration screen of the dealer's VAS 5051). Install new ECU in the vehicle. Measure the car's battery voltage, it must be 12.5 V or higher. [Select] [01 - Engine] [Adaptation - 10] Enter "50" in Channel Number [Read] [Use 7-digit PIN/SKC] Enter the 7-digit PIN, Date on which the PIN was GENERATED BY THE DEALER, along with the dealer's Workshop Code (WSC) and the Importer number [OK] VCDS will validate the data you have entered and return you to the Adaptation screen, where the New Value will show as "XXXXX". [Test] [Save] [Done, Go Back] Verify that the VIN now displayed in the "Extra" field matches the VIN on the vehicle code from dealer [Close Controller, Go Back - 06] [Go Back] [Exit] Turn ignition OFF and then back on within one minute, but do not start vehicle for two minutes After 2 minutes, start the vehicle [Select] [01 - Engine] Verify that the 5-digit Soft. Coding matches the coding from the old ECU [Fault Codes - 02] Clear all DTC's. USED: Before Installing a USED ECU (we'll call it ECU #2) in vehicle, get the ECM coding from the current ECU (we'll call it ECU #1) in the vehicle [Select] [01 - Engine] Write down the 5-digit Soft. Coding [Close Controller, Go Back - 06] Install the USED ECU (ECU #2) in vehicle, (the Immobilizer light will be flashing, that's okay for now) [Select] [01 - Engine] Write down the 14 digit Immobilizer ID number from the "Extra" field. This the 14 digit Immobilizer ID number for ECU#2. [Close Controller, Go Back - 06] [17 - Instruments] Write down the 14 digit Immobilizer ID number from the "Extra" field. This the 14 digit Immobilizer ID number for ECU#1. [Close Controller, Go Back - 06] Bring both 14-digit ID numbers to your dealer and request both your seven-digit SKC's Keep track of the SKC for ECU#1 and the SKC for the ECU#2, as well as the Date on which each SKC was GENERATED BY THE DEALER, along with the dealer's Workshop Code (WSC) and the Importer number. Measure the car's battery voltage, it must be 12.5 V or higher. With the USED ECU (ECU #2) in vehicle, (the Immobilizer light will be flashing, that's okay for now) [Select] [01 - Engine] [Login - 11] [Use 7-digit PIN/SKC] Enter the 7-digit PIN from ECU #2, Date on which the PIN was GENERATED BY THE DEALER, along with the dealer's Workshop Code (WSC) and the Importer number [OK] [Do-It!] (You just "introduced" yourself to ECU#2 and the ECU should listen to you since you knew how to login. The ECU is now ready to learn its new home.) [Adaptation - 10] Enter 50 in Channel Number [Read] [Use 7-digit PIN/SKC] Enter the 7-digit PIN from ECU#1, Date on which the PIN was GENERATED BY THE DEALER, along with the dealer's Workshop Code (WSC) and the Importer number [OK] [Test] [Save] [Done, Go Back] (You just told ECU#2 that it has a new home, and that it should make friends with the Instrument Cluster.) Verify that the VIN now displayed in the "Extra" field in the Engine matches matches the VIN now displayed in the "Extra" field in the Instrument Cluster controller. Turn ignition OFF and then back on within one minute, but do not start vehicle for two minutes After 2 minutes, start the vehicle [Select] [01 - Engine] Verify that the 5-digit Soft. Coding matches the coding from the old ECU [Fault Codes - 02] Clear all DTC's. Title: Re: Reading/Flashing Immobilizer Info Post by: phila_dot on May 25, 2011, 11:27:21 AM I apologize if I am taking your thread in a different direction than you intended. It sounds like you already have the resources to clone the EEPROM, but I don't know about the power issues you are asking about. Just trying to offer alternatives.
Title: Re: Reading/Flashing Immobilizer Info Post by: SteveAR on May 25, 2011, 11:29:57 AM no problem, I welcome anyones feedback. You never know what you can learn just by opening up the discussion. In regards to what you posted, Yes this is actually from the VCDS (VAG-COM by ross-tech) website/instructions. You're right, the key there is you need the IMMO PIN or KEY for EACH ECU/system. I have the PIN for my car, but if I were to buy a used ECU, I wouldn't have the PIN for that one and there's no way for me to extract it without using cracked software or dropping a boat load of money for a legal copy of the software.
That's why I was hoping to just do a hard copy/flash of the IC directly instead of trying to access the necessary info through software. Unfortunately in all the EBAY searching I've done I cannot remember ever seeing a used ECU advertised WITH the immobilizer PIN known/included. :-\ Title: Re: Reading/Flashing Immobilizer Info Post by: ramiretz on June 14, 2011, 08:53:49 AM hello
with the vagdash - vag ecu tool.... u can read and write the eeprom... and also disable the immo with 1 click.... u can find this tool on ebay and some china clone stores..... Title: Re: Reading/Flashing Immobilizer Info Post by: carlossus on June 14, 2011, 11:50:17 AM Quote I wouldn't have the PIN for that one and there's no way for me to extract it without using cracked software or dropping a boat load of money for a legal copy of the software. Sorry if this is extraneous as I haven't read the whole thread, but any tool that allows you to read the EEPROM also allows you to know the SKC. Monoscan allegedly can read the EEPROM range required and it's free, although I haven't tried this myself so it could be a dead end. How the pin is stored is discussed here http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php/topic,300.msg1913.html#msg1913 Also, not sure if the ME7 will allow reads over OBD if it hasn't paired with the cluster. If you have time on your hands it might be worth a shot. Title: Re: Reading/Flashing Immobilizer Info Post by: RaraK on June 15, 2011, 08:28:10 PM Yes once you get the read, SKC is right there, then pair them per VW's method.
just FYI, i have done over 50 immo defeats with a SOIC8 clip and a willem, just pull ecu apart, flip it, attach clip and go. Takes about 2-3 seconds to read, and write. Never once did i have an issue with this method. soic 8 clip that i use is available at mcumall.com as well as the willem i use. had it for a while, never failed once Title: Re: Reading/Flashing Immobilizer Info Post by: vtraudt on July 19, 2011, 09:02:00 PM Somewhat unrelated:
I want to install a spare instrument cluster (used, no immo, no nothing available) in my 2002 AR (Immo3). I figure there MUST be a way (even considering a trip to the dealer) to get another instrument cluster to work with my car? If how: how? Title: Re: Reading/Flashing Immobilizer Info Post by: carlossus on July 20, 2011, 12:09:16 AM As above :)
Title: Re: Reading/Flashing Immobilizer Info Post by: julex on July 29, 2011, 08:24:37 AM Somewhat unrelated: I want to install a spare instrument cluster (used, no immo, no nothing available) in my 2002 AR (Immo3). I figure there MUST be a way (even considering a trip to the dealer) to get another instrument cluster to work with my car? If how: how? cheap ebay vag-com cable + vag commander 2.5 downloadable on internet will allow you to hack into the cluster and change VIN/Immo/Mileage. You obtain the immo code by accessing ECU, the code is right in the ECU info string it sends out at the very beginning of handshake and is visible in VAG-COM for example as well as vag commander itself. It is also visible once you access one of the vag blocks in vag-com. Title: Re: Reading/Flashing Immobilizer Info Post by: pvl on July 29, 2011, 12:48:10 PM Hi Julex,
Would you mind to share the weblink to that software with me/us (via pm if it's too sensitive. no probs) Thanks, PvL Title: Re: Reading/Flashing Immobilizer Info Post by: itemonsale on March 09, 2013, 12:37:21 AM Can i get some help on this, I bought the Ponoma Clip with a Chipmax 2 on hands, I tried to read my current ECU(ST95040 and program it onto the donor ECU but my car still will only started for 2 sec and die.
Chipmax2 will provide a Checksum , I believe the checksum should match between ECU if they clone it correctly? the Chipmax2 won't allow me to erase the chip , it only allow me to program so I wonder if that's the problem. Title: Re: Reading/Flashing Immobilizer Info Post by: ddillenger on March 09, 2013, 08:33:37 AM What are you trying to do? You can read the immo data with me7_95040 (argdub's tool) and the immobilizer sticky shows you how to turn it off.
Title: Re: Reading/Flashing Immobilizer Info Post by: itemonsale on March 09, 2013, 01:50:02 PM I bought a spare ECU and I want to copy the IMMO3 chip from my car onto it ,so that I have a spare. I got a chipmax2 and the Pomona 8 pin clip. First I got it connect and back up both ECU chip ST95040 chip then I try to program the spare ECU ( file from my current car), it program ok but not working when I plug in the spare ECu into the car. Am I missing something?
Title: Re: Reading/Flashing Immobilizer Info Post by: 316LV on April 01, 2013, 04:52:48 PM That is strange. I have cloned my immo3 and put it on a spare ECU using Argdub's tool. Perhaps give it a try instead of what you are reading/writing with now. FYI my car is a 2002 jetta AWP (HS box)...
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