NefMoto

Got myself fome of the 600cc bosch injectors.  Currently on scaling them in.  I have KRKTE set to around 0.053 region and FKKVS set to all 1's.    I have fuel trims of adding roughly 11% extra fuel.    I have a FKKVS fixer tool where I upload a log of engine speed, duty cycle and lambda control with a copy of my fkkvs map.


Now,  how is best to feed the tool a sample log?   A WOT run in 3/4th gear and adjust from there, or a good few miles of cruising, WOT and over run to get a range of results?

Chris

Adaptations must be disabled. Roberts requires NOLRA=7, Others, NOLRA=6 (to leave idle area on).

Then, you need to drive for around 30 minutes (logging ONLY the needed variables to keep the log small) at varying pulsewidths. Try to get as light/heavy loads as possible while staying in closed loop. Obviously, if you have a wideband you can do some WOT.

My impression was that FKKVS is only used for the bad siemens dekas?
Finetuning KRKTE 2-3 times after some good amount of driving should result in 0% trims.

No. No injectors are perfectly linear, so there will always be corrections. I prefer to keep KRKTE at it's calculated value, and instead use FKKVS/KFKHFM to keep everything working well together. Otherwise, you'll be way off in other areas (WOT for instance.)

You live and learn  ;)

Now i am confused.
I had similar question in
http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=6726.0title=

I was told to tune Krkte instead.
Can you plz explain the diff for me?

Calculate KRKTE for E85, not gasoline. Then modify FKKVS. You were told not to leave KRKTE alone when switching to E85.

I was not switching from gasoline too e85.
I always drove on Ethanol.
Diff was Sommer e85 vs winter e70 blend.
My LTFTs changed from 5% to 17% now.

So I how should I log and modify fkkvs?  Random drive with me7logger attached and after 5-10miles or so stick data into the fixer?

Sorry missed your first reply there.  Will get that done. 

Has anyone used that fkkvs fixer which is a program,  upload a spreadsheet of your fkkvs and a log and then you can choose smoothing etc?

FKKVS is used to correct on time for non-linearity at specific effective on times.

It is only necessary for corrections in the lower and upper non-linear regions.

(http://injectordynamics.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/fordcal.bmp)

I would also suggest disabling TEB (evap) while fine tuning inj. And log B_lr and only apply rows where B_lr = 1 ( even leave off leading and trailing B_lr=1 rows ).

Cool, so I need to set my NOLRA to 6 (not sure what this roberts thing is).

Set ME7logger to log. nmot_w, te_w, fr_w and then drive normally with good load conditions for about 25-30mins

Sound about right?

I doubt you are within any non-linear region under "good load".

If you look at the graph that I posted, FKKVS would only be used to correct from ~1.25 ms to ~1.75 ms. TEMIN would be ~1.25 ms and above ~1.75ms is linear and would be tuned with KRKTE and TVUB.

Surely injectors arent non-linear across virtually the whole range?

Im using the bosch 0280 158 298

Used the following TVUB aswell.

8v - 2.7
10v - 1.54
12v - 1.12
14v - .73
16v - .523

Would it be worth upping them a little?   I used the bosch 550cc data for this.

Infact, they look the same for the 650s aswell.

I am running the 298s with TVUB of
4.09
1.58
1.02
0.65
0.45
 still need to dial it in, have ~2 idle trims.

im using the same 298s @3bar and tvub values

KRKTE = 0.05450
NOLRA = 6
FKKVS = flat 1

^ that file without axes sorry

36mins data logging and got the following result. - attached


Hopefully should be about right now

Looks like you should probably just scale KRKTE up so that FKKVS is a little flatter midrange and only compensating at the high/low pulsewidths.

I imagine you have adjusted KRKTE from the theoretical value based on fuel trims?

KRKTE is 0.05378.


My engine is 1825cc now with a 1mm overbore.

50.2624 * (1825/4) / (610*0.684)

50.2624 * 0.45625 / 417.24 = 0.05496  

(I made it a touch richer as was still getting add of roughly 10-11% on the fuel trims.

Stock KFKHFM aswell.  Not sure what effect that would have on it.

Yeah, I can see that it's still a bit lean from your FKKVS. Give it a shot anyway, interesting to see the results.

Will get the map copied over onto my netbook and set NOLRA back to standard 4 and go for a bit drive sometime and see what the trims are like.   Ill be happy with anything up to +/-10% tbh.

There is no way that you should see that much variance among pulsewidth.

You will be correcting error under the wrong conditions.

Where do you suggest im going wrong?  Ive got my krkte as set above, and TVUB.  only other thing is temin?

How did you arrive at your KRKTE and TVUB?

Are you relying completely on calculations?

Tune them until your fueling is perfect in almost all conditons, then correct the remaining errors as necessary.

FKKVS is for correction in injection. You will chase your tail if you use any of the correction maps incorrectly because the correction will not always be applied under the right condition. A global correction is ok, but I can't imagine ever needing injection correction like you're showing.

TVUB was got from the EV14 migration thread.  I believe nyet posted the TVUB for different injectors and fuel pressures.

KRKTE was done using the calculations I listed above.

Any ideas phila_dot?

Was going to flash and test FKKVS map tonight, but being comfortable got the better of me! haha

About 75miles complete and got some half decent trims.  Whether they alter much more as miles go on we'll have to see.   Seems pretty much spot on to me.  Well within tolerance and pulling fuel rather than add.

should all be ok.  All silicone and good jubilee clamps holding pipework on.

Will see how it goes.

Gonna rip it all out soon and start TSFi turbo conversion. :D

hehe, I am getting a feel that you like a process of fixing things more then enjoying actual driving.

More power was always on the cards.

Since its a track car, road legal track tyres, driving the car in the winter is just not possible.  Since its no good as a daily drive anymore as costs too much to get to work in it, perfect time over winter when roads are too slippy/wet to get the conversion done.   Then into the tuners over new year to get the OLS emulator on it and get a nice map on it :D

I just tryed to use the me7 wizzard fkkvs corrector with my file but "you havent logged either frm_w or nmot or ti_b1"

does someone have a example log for me?

You are logging fr_w, nmot_w and te_w, but fixer needs frm_w, nmot and ti_b1!

Does the car follow the lamfa table with nolra set to 7? is part protection still working? car has real egt sensor.
in other words is it safe to do wot runs with a wideband car and nolra set to 7?

couldnt find much regarding nolra :(

In ideal world you would have to disable everything from GK that would interfere with mixture. But for most killing only adaptations are enough

GK?

So NOLRA has no influence of the safety features and fueling following lamfa map?

im a bit irritated and concerned  ::)

NOLRA=7 disables adaptations. It doesn't disable anything else.

okay very good,

had a strange situation yesterday but this was maybe because of too less fuel and the steep uphill

this is my fkkvs with the 0280158298 injectors

Why are you using ti and not te?

I meant to ask this, but why not tevfa_w?

just for clarification

i was using this with guitars fkkvs fixxer
TimeStamp, fr_w      , nmot_w    , te_w     
  sec.ms , -         , rpm       , ms       
"TIME","LambdaControl","EngineSpeed","EffInjectionTime"

masterj's me7 wizards requires
frm_w, nmot and ti_b1

Same thing, but yea exactly.

NOLRA =7? Disable all ltft and stft adaptations to tune fueling perfect?
Does this apply on 551K box as well?

Glad to hear somebody is using it besides me. Nice to know the work didn't go to waste.

For what it's worth, I seem to have the best results with smoothing passes set to 4 and smoothing factor set to about 85%. There is another new version I just published.

And for the record, the correct variable to log for pulse width is tevfakge_w. You want the exact input variables for FKKVS axes to be as accurate as possible.

I used the values which you provide with your example log file on bitbucket.
There is no tevfakge_w

Can you please reupload the screenshots to your companys page?

can you make the smoothing factor visual as %number? that would be a great improvenment.

great tool btw  ;D

I was being lazy and general when I said te and being smart after that.

tevfakge and tevfa are literally the same, so either will work perfectly.

Trying to dial my ev14's in with guitars fixer.

here are before and after logs and the file i used to modify my fkkvs map.

what am i missing?  :-\

here is the fkkvs table afterwards

Did you set NOLRA=7?

No because i did this with nolra=7 weeks ago and this was the result:
http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=6772.msg66386#msg66386

Right now i was under the impression that fr_w will do nothing with nolra=7

But if i use fr_w to use guitars fixer nolra should be stock...

Additionally log STFT. I do not think that FKKVS will help you here... You see initial jump of fr correction right? Try to log full pulls in different gears. If the initial jump is not in the same rpm range then I think you might have air miscalculation (leak, maf, map)

STFS = fr_w = LambdaControl in my Chart

No, in GK fr_w !== STFT

 :o What variable do you want me to log?

im out ouf knowledge once more  :'(

When I'm back home I'll write you the variables for both LTFT and STFT. Basically (x * LTFT + STFT) * fr_w (that is without other variables such as evap, wall wetting...)

fr_w is short term fuel trim.

rka_w and fra_w are adapted trims.